#61011 - 02/25/06 03:54 PM
Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country????
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Journeyman
Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 73
Loc: Nevada,USA
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I was wondering if anyone had any knowledge on what the safe minimum caliber handgun in grizzly country would be. I am planning a trip to Alaska in late summer and want to have the right gear with me for the trip. I know the fish and game officers carry a S&W .50 cal. I have heard people say a .45 is fine and if so then a .40 is good too because it is actually faster and has the same ftlbs. of energy as a .45. Just curious and want to hear some more opinions on the matter..
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"If it's not with you it cant save you"
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#61012 - 02/25/06 05:46 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Uh-oh - can o' worms...
You don't need to carry a sidearm. If you do, none of the conventional semi-autos are suitable. If you absolutely have to carry a common conventional semi-auto, full house 10mm heavy bullet loads would be less bad than the other choices.
In Alaska I carried extremely heavy 45 Colt loads for many years and heavy bullet 44 mag loads for a few years. I encountered MANY bears at rock-throwning distance, some at face-to-face range. I never had to shoot a bear under those circumstances. Again, you don't need to pack heat for bears. (OK - I would carry, but bears are *almost* an insignificant reason for me to carry a firearm).
A short barreled 12 ga pump with a proper sling, a Marlin Guide Gun, a bolt-action rifle in 308 or larger caliber, even a 30-30 with good bullets would be "better". If you carry a pistol instead, stick to large calibers with heavy bullets. 44 mag, heavy 45 Colt loads, 454, 480, etc.
HTH <bracing for onslaught of posts>,
Tom
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#61013 - 02/25/06 08:54 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
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I'm passing through Lost Wages next weekend. Which firearm works best on Elvis impersonators? I'll be in Pahrump and Winnemuca later buying horses. Will the same handgun work on Peterbuilts in a hurry to stop at certain gated businesses? Our old Studebaker truck only goes so fast. If every visitor to Alaska subscribed to Outdoor Strife's 'When Bars attack' pink journalism and kept Marlin production lines going poor old Ehpraim would be facing extinction along with his Polar Bear cousin. Even without my extensive field experience around bears, which translates into being savvy about THEIR home and habits AND having carried a .375 H&H I never used - I HAVE A BETTER CHANCE OF BEING MUGGED BY A JAPANESE ELVIS IMPERSONATOR THAN A BEAR! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Edited by Chris Kavanaugh (02/25/06 08:55 PM)
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#61014 - 02/25/06 09:29 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Did you read what I wrote? Just checking...
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#61015 - 02/25/06 09:43 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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For Elvis impersonators, use a squirt gun filled with cheap wine....just hand it to them.
Seriously, for bears, why not include yourself in a party with someone who knows the area and the potential risks. If you are going it alone, a 12 guage slug.
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#61016 - 02/25/06 10:44 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Journeyman
Registered: 08/23/05
Posts: 73
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why not include yourself in a party with someone who knows the area and the potential risks ...and with several folks who run much slower than yourself... M
_________________________
By failing to prepare, you're preparing to fail." B. Franklin
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#61017 - 02/25/06 10:59 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country????
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Old Hand
Registered: 09/12/05
Posts: 817
Loc: MA
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One without a front sight, so it will hurt less when the bear shoves it up your...
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It's not that life is so short, it's that you're dead for so long.
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#61018 - 02/25/06 11:55 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country????
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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You may have a better chance of being attacked by a Japanese Elvis impersonator than a bear, but It only has to happen once. . . . Even with lottery odds of 45 million to one, someone still wins. Even if the odds are 1 person killed by a bear in 10 yearsfor the whole country, if I'm the one, then I'm 100% dead.
Edited by riedmur (02/25/06 11:58 PM)
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#61019 - 02/26/06 12:03 AM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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...and with several folks who run much slower than yourself... ....You have it! Bring the Elvis impersonator with you! You know it must be hard to run in white loafers.
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#61021 - 02/26/06 06:48 AM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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newbie
Registered: 09/26/05
Posts: 29
Loc: Juneau, Alaska
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I used to tote a Garand in bear country. I could put a clip of 200 grain bullets into a paper plate at 100 feet in about 8 seconds, time after time.
Before that, I was trapping in Cold Bay, and I carried a Savage Model 24, 22LR above 20 gauge. I carried a load of number 8 shot in the shotgun barrel, and a 20 gauge slug in my pocket. I figured that I'd blast an aggressive bear in the face with the shot, then try to finish him with the slugs. That worked as well as the Garand: I bumped into bears, but never had to shoot at them, with both guns.
Bears usually aren't interested in killing you, but if they smack you around like a cub or a rival bear, you're dead, how ever harmless their actual intention. You need to be prepared for that rare bear who decides to go through you rather than around you, because you probably won't survive that sort of encounter if it all goes the bear's way.
I wouldn't recommend any handgun if I thought I would actually have to shoot at a bear. I believe that you mentioned a 45? If you're talking about the 45 ACP, I'd advise against that. A 454 Casul might have some potential.
What I would recommend is that Garand, or a 12 gauge loaded with slugs.
Nels
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#61022 - 02/26/06 02:43 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Addict
Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 493
Loc: Just wandering around.
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Well, my vote goes for Bear Spray. I spent a bit of time talking with various "Woods Folks" in many bear areas (Maine, Canada, Calif etc) and they mostly say they are carrying spray. Yes, they know all the arguments, but slowly they seem to be leaving the heavy iron at home and packing a $30 can of spray. It seems to be a statistics game. Factor in the very remote likelyhood of a bear attack with the skills of the (even trained) shooter, and the actual effectivness of the weapon or spray, the spray seems to be gaining supporters. Gloria and I switched to spray several years ago and have been carefully watching the discussion and results. Take a look at the following URL. On the left there is a question about carrying a rifle. http://www.alaskanha.org/bears.cfmI did a google search and found strong proponents of both firearms and spray. But neither is 100% effective. Next summer, Gloria and I will be taking our RV into a remote unoccupied part of Maine. We will stay on a "Blueberry Barren". She grew up in a near by town. Family goes back many generations in the backwoods of Maine. Lots of bear there. They like the blueberries (so does Gloria). Bear are becoming a problem there. Bear encounters are increasing as humans enter bear areas and bears enter human areas. Even in the remote parts of Maine, bear are loosing their fear of humans. In the RV we will have a short barrel 12 ga and a .223 Kel-tec. But We will EDC spray.
_________________________
...........From Nomad.........Been "on the road" since '97
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#61023 - 02/26/06 04:02 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I believe there is a huge difference between preparing to go into Black Bear, Kodiak, or Grizzly country. Correct?
I know female bears of all species can be protective of cubs but I've always thought the Grizzly had the potential of being much more dangerous in general. Is this correct?
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#61024 - 02/26/06 07:47 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
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Anyone care to guess what animal in Alaska statistically is the most dangerous? Hemingway never had to go mano a mano with a bull moose in rut trying to charge a Coast Guard helicopter- BTDT. Try it sometime with the other deadly creatures; mosquitos and no -see- um blackflies doing kamikaze runs at your eyes while lining up express sights on a .375 <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />. A Kodiak is merely a Mc Donalds supersized mainland brownie which in turn is a extra large grizz. Statistically, black bears are far more dangerous. Grizz will stop attacks( usually) if you play dead. Sometimes by the time they do you nearly are. An aggressive black bear will continue. The standard advise it to hold your ground. Running initiates the prey response. Try it with my pet cat sometime <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />Most attacks are from suprise encounters, a mother and cubs or old, young or injured individuals suffering malnutrition. Bears, like another predatory mammal are highly individual in personality. It's that adapatbility that insures the specie survival. Bart was a very socialised and just plain neat bear with highly skilled people in the Suesse family.
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#61026 - 02/26/06 09:32 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country????
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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What year was it when rangers were issued .32 cal. pistols?
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#61027 - 02/26/06 10:52 PM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country????
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Preferably something from .357 to .44 S&W. Friend of mine carries a .44 S&W Walther P99 he purchased while he worked as a truck driver in Iraq in the summer of 04'. It's enough to stop a bear with two shots. Wrong....A Walther P99 is a S&W .40. I would never recommend this or a .357 or a .45 or a .44. IMHO this is not good advice Izzy.
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#61029 - 02/27/06 02:58 AM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Addict
Registered: 05/04/02
Posts: 493
Loc: Just wandering around.
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Portable Electric Fence!! Great idea. I think I will string one around my RV when we get back to Maine. Hope it does not just get 'em mad. We worry a lot when we leave the RV in remote areas. Especially after spending a bit of time at Yosemite. A ranger there showed me a bunch of photos of Bear damage to vehicles. Trunks ripped open, doors peeled back like tinfoil..
I forgot to mention another reason for carrying spray over a heavy cal weapon. We are more likely to have the spray with us. I carried a Colt 1911 while working for my uncle Sam and it is much more likely to be left at home "just this once" than a light can of spray. I eventually was able to trade the 1911 in for a much lighter Colt Agent 38 spl. revolver which I still EDC.
However when Gloria and I were on our first camping trip together in bear country, she asked what I carried. I replied that I had the 38. She just laughed and told me to get a 12 ga.
Actually I think I am much more likely to have a problem with feral dogs. People bring dogs to Maine for the summer then abandon them. They are not aftaid of people and run in packs. I heard from a Game Warden that this is beginning to be a real problem.
Thanks for the electric fence idea.
_________________________
...........From Nomad.........Been "on the road" since '97
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#61030 - 02/27/06 03:18 AM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Veteran
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
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...and with several folks who run much slower than yourself... How does the saying go? "You don't have to out run the bear. You just have to out run your buddy." <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Learn to improvise everything.
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#61031 - 02/27/06 04:47 AM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country???
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Addict
Registered: 07/10/03
Posts: 659
Loc: Orygun
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A quick Google search turned up a link to the "UDAP Industries" web page and their "Bear Shock" product: http://www.udap.com/bearshock.htmI'm not sure which brand or model they're using on the river trips and campgrounds around here. Whoever came up with the idea is pretty sharp!
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#61032 - 03/11/06 04:31 AM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country????
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Member
Registered: 02/16/06
Posts: 144
Loc: Kingman AZ
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When hiking in bear country I carry a Mossburg 500 with an 18 1/4 barrel and shortened stock. 00 buck and slugs alternated. Recommended by an Alaskan Game Warden. carried within easy reach on a larger pack, secure with velcro straps.
_________________________
What you know isn't as important as knowing what you don't know
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#61034 - 03/27/06 12:53 AM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country????
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I'm not a bear hunter but I sure would like a skin with skull in front of a fire place. If it were me a 41 mag. is the smallest I would consider. A 44 mag. would be even better. Double action with a grip that fits your hand well. I would want a lanyard attached to the butt long enough to hang around my neck and fit in the holster. You know Tucco style from The Good,theBad and the Ugly. Loaded with Garrett Hammerheads for deep penetration. This is your life were talking about.
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#61035 - 03/27/06 02:51 AM
Re: Which sidearm for hiking in grizzly country????
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
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