A post on the Long Term Preparedness Forum about ammo, got me thinking about the following :

I (legally) own a .357 revolver, which is much more accurate than I am and is great for target shooting.
I reload .38 SWC for precision shooting and also some .357 Magnum, not too hot, just enough to feel a bit of power.

Up to now, I don't have any long gun.
I was wondering if a long gun in .357 would be interesting ;
the main advantage being I already have all the tools for reloading that kind of cartridge.

Questions :
- what are the usages of that cartridge fired from a long gun ?
- what's the max range, with a still fair accuracy (my shooting is only target shooting, not hunting ; no power needed to make holes in paper at the end of the trajectory...)
- what would be the max range for hunting (if I ever decided to hunt and if it's legal -here in France - to use such a cartridge for thaht purpose) ?

Any other idea, pro or con, that may influence my decision ?

Or would I have more fun with a .22LR long gun ?
(I also own a .22LR handgun - Walther GSP)

I have a lever action rifle, a copy of an 1892 Winchester made by Rossi and imported by EMF, that is a .38/357Mag. It is fun and cheap to shoot. It holds 10 rounds of .38 and 8 rounds of .357 Mag. Although it is not an assault rifle, it is a potential game getter. I bought it for cowboy action shooting but never got motivated to buy all the other items required. Cheers!

Alain,

Your reasoning makes perfectly good sense to me. As far as I know, your choices are lever actions by Marlin (M1894) or Rossi (M92) or various single shot rifles - some like a single shot break-open shotgun and some like a T/C (sort of like a ss shotgun, but with a hammer).

If you do your part, you should be able to cleanly take small deer / chamois / small feral hogs at 100m with any of those. The velocity of 357 mag is markedly faster from a carbine barrel (short rifle barrel) than from a revolver. I have little doubt that an expert hunter could take larger deer with a 357 carbine, but he/she would probably stalk very close and reject less than perfect opportunities. Some would say that 357 is a little underpowered for deer, but I believe that it can do the job if you respect the limitations of your abilities and ammunition.

My suggestion is go ahead and get a 357 carbine - they are fun to shoot (lever actions, anyway). Put a good aperture sight on the rear or a low-powered telescopic sight and go have fun at the range. Shoot against yourself - pistol VS carbine - and I bet your pistol shooting will also get even better.

HTH,

Tom

I'm one of those who is going to say that it is underpowered for deer, through a pistol, and marginal with a rifle. That being said, if you reload, there are some loads that have been developed specifically for the carbines that have some extra punch. And if you are uncomfortable with the heavier revolver loads, try them through a carbine- they are very managable.

As much as I dislike lever actions (it's a personal thing), the combo of a good lever carbine and revolver in .357 will be fine for most shooting needs. Not much that can go wrong with them mechanically, particularly the wheelgun; inexpensive; relatively inoffensive from a political perspective. Ammo can be fairly inexpensive, and being mechanically cycled, they are forgiving of low powered ammo. I don't think there is a wider spectrum of digestable ammo out there than for that combo.

One note of warning reloading for a lever action. Make sure the bullets are round nosed flat point or wad cutter, so as not to press against the primer of the next round in the tube magazine.

The common sense rational of one cartridge for both firearms was epitomised by the .44-40 in the Colt SAA and 1873/1892 Winchesters. Ken Waters did a .357 for pistol and carbine for HANDLOADING which is reprinted in the two volume collection of those articles. There isn't one outstanding load that performs well in both systems. The useable range is dictated by the cartridge performance more than the small, but usefull increase in velocity and accuracy from a carbine. Several of the fine old rook rifles were chambered in essentially a .38 special and have been successfully rechambered for .357 as well. If your moivng into rifles, I'd get a .22 It's so versatile and of value for training it's amost a 'given.'

I've had a .357 Marlin for about 8 years now, and had taken several deer with it before my oldest son claimed it. He took a nice buck with it last fall and now I'm sure I'll never get it back. I found that it was extremly fun to shoot, but the bead front and standard rear sight weren't fine enough to be real accurate. I installed a blade front and thinned it, and mated it with a peep rear. The rifle is now capable of one ragged hole at 100 yards, which is better than I can shoot.

I also found that the ballistic trajectory (with .357's) is almost identical to a .22 Long Rifle shell from the similar gun. So shooting a rimfire rifle will be the same as shooting a .357 rifle. I had a friend show me that shooting a .38spl wadcutter (target load) out of the rifle just makes a hollow pop, and will not bother the neighbors (I live in the country) when a skunk or other pest needs to be taken care of. If nothing else they are a blast (pun intended) to shoot and I recomend one.

There used to be a pump called the Timberwolf chambered in .357 mag that was imported (into the US)from Israel, but I don't know if it's still made. Also while I have a Marlin, I would recomend something with conventional rifling rather than their "micro-groove" as I like to shoot lead rather than jacket bullets to practice, and while the Marlin will shoot them, they are not as accurate as a jacketed bullet out of that rifle.

As to being enough for deer, I have yet to recover a bullet from one as they go all the way through the body and make a large exit hole. The farthest any deer shot by my son's rifle (I've given up claiming it) was about three jumps or twenty yards, which is better performance than I've had out of a 7x57 mauser.

>>I would recomend something with conventional rifling<<

Good news: That's what Marlin has been doing for quite some time now - especially in rifles likely to be used with cast bullets. MicroGroove still exists, but mostly only in the 22rf and 30-30

1894C with Ballard rifling

Do you mean I first have to buy a .22, train with it and then buy a .357 ???
I guess it's a good, practical solution to my problem..... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

That, or open up a shooting range in a Maginot Line bunker. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

as a matter of fact, opening a shooting range is an idea I seriously consider, for my retirement days...
I still have to work on it ...

A .357 Magnum rifle is a great multi pupose rifle. Good muzzle velocity and decent range.

If you are looking to minimize the number of different calibers of ammunition you need that is a good choice for both handgun and long gun.

Alain,
I'm sorry I should have read the rest of your posting. A .357 is kinda large for any game on the continent. A 22 rifle for medium to small game and a small gauge shotgun would probably serve you better. The deer are small and a carefully placed shot would serve you well. The plentiful game bird population could easily keep you fed with a 20 gauge shotgun. Keep the 357 for personal protection.

Many prefer a .22 lr for a long term game getter. Keep in mind, one .357 cartridge weighs about as much as five .22 lr bullets. The 22. is light and it's accurate. You can buy higher velocity CCI Velociter hollow point ammo for small game. Deer have been taken with this ammo as well.

While there are many break down 22 rifles, for storage in a long term BOB, I prefer a .22 lr handgun made by Hammerli a Swiss company, for Sig, it's called the Trailside (in Europe it's the Xesse) and is, by far, the lightest, most accurate, and most precisely made of any of the .22 handguns (6" barrel preferred). These have a 3/8 dovetail on the top for optical sights, and the target model has adjutable iron sights. While the gun has been discontinued, it can still be found for $400 to $650.

The most important thing about owning a gun, is knowing how to care for it, and how and when to use it.

Thanks for all your advices.

Looks like the .357 cartridge would be fun to shoot from a carbine.

OTOH, the .357 cartridge is classified as a "4ème catégorie", here in France, meaning you need a special permit to buy it (same for handguns using it).
Right now I have that authorization, but sometimes I feel it's a PITA to ask for such agrement every 3 years, not being sure the law won't change next year, forbiding such guns' possession.

In that respect (+ cost/availability/weight/versatility), a long gun in .22LR is certainly less of a hassle (no special permit needed) and is also a (technically) good option.

There is nothing wrong with shooing .357 from a carbine. There are better rifle cartridges but from a closed breach gun, I would expect good performance. Some do not realize that when a revolver barrel gets too long, velocity can actually drop. While not my first choice in a long gun, it still has alot of utility, the ammo compatablity is nice thing.