O.K. We know there is no true "survival knife', only appropriate knives for the many tasks we may face. There are various military fighting/utility knives and a few aircrew knives. I have been able to find some information and will be posting modifications later if anyone is interested. The classic A/F survival knife is currently produced by Ontario and Camillus. Both are 1095 carbon steel. Ontario has a Rockwell of 50-53, with a 30 rockwell tang that becomes harder from the heel of the blade to the edge. Camillus is harder, with 53-58 rockwell in the blade. The Camillus' clip point is deeper than the Ontario and more prone to potential breakage. It also has a treated leather handle against rot. The british offer the Mod4 knife. This has a uniform rockwell of 52 in a carbon/manganese steel. At 1/4" uniform thick and a full scale tang you do not break it. I will describe usefull modifications if there is interest ( and I get Barry paid and a A/F sent!)

Do tell more...

Tom, Some of the modicfications we made in the Coast Guard with the A/F; The upper guard with the two holes is a big neon sign saying "tie me to a shaft and throw me at that sleeping bear." We ground it off almost flush with the heel of the blade (leave a little to keep the unit secure.)This also gives better purchase for choking up on detail work and using the "saw." The leather rots in the jungle or gets eaten by rodents in the arctic. We found "dullcoat" ,a clear spraypaint used in modelmaking gave a good secure finish easily renewed. You can also wrap paracord as shown in the Ranger Rick pamphlets. That sawback can be improved by grinding the teeth in an offset pattern. This is a MAJOR undertaking and makes the sawback more vulnurable if splitting wood with a billet. Speaking of billets; the rattail tang can break. I think people inadvertently grip to hard, setting up enough cant or lateral torque to snap this weak area. Just hold the knife enough to steady it, much like the relaxed grip of a handgun. The hammer butt is a good hammer. Just remember it is threaded to the tang and respect it's limits. You can drill ( very carefully) a lanyard hole offset from the thread. If you must have a lanyard , again refer to Ranger Ricks wraparound illustration.The sheath has a nice pouch with a lousy stone. Lose the stone and slip a metal match or cut down magnesium bar in there. A paracord tie down or even duct tape helps secure the knife. The snaps won't win any prizes. I prefered the metal tipped version.These knives are easily dulled in the field, but are equally capable of extreme sharpness with a little work. I saw one scary sharp blade disembowel it's own sheath, so get the metal reinforced version!

The MOD4 This knife dates from 1987 and was made initially by Wilkinson Sword. WIlkinson exists in name only and the quality has fallen somewhat in finish. Fortunately, this thing is a brute and there really is a knife in there. It is frankly overpriced in the USA. It comes so dull only the lettering indicates the right way to hold one to a neophyte. The "sheath" is actually left handed, and unless your in this minority, THROW IT AWAY QUICKLY! Make, or have made a decent sheath. There is a military and civilian version. The military has a black fiber handle and the civilian wood. Both can be shaped for a better grip ( but not much.) The blade itself is a deep bellied slight drop point. The British seem to have an affinity for large machete or parang type blades ala' Lofty Wiseman. My second MOD4 came from Barry @ Blueline with his nice work at putting a decent edge on it. It can be done, and I intend to put a even finer edge on the point and curve for fine work, leaving the straight edge for chopping. The double guard is best left "as is" two small welds top and bottom secure it to the blade. Attempting to remove the top will only weaken the attachment. At 7", the 1/4" blade is to big for the small knife and to small for the really big big knife advocates. I've split wood with it easier than any other, hacked out of a truck camper in short order and split the pelvic girdle on a dead steer ( another good use for bandannas-phew!) If you find yourself with one add a small knife- or two for weight distribution! At 1 1/2 lbs. the MOD4 is a handfull! Both the MOD4 and A/F knives have phosphate or parkerized finishes. I prefer this to the baked on epoxys as used by Cold Steel. Both can eventually wear or chip off. The phosphates at least do not inhibit initial sharpening.

Chris - Interesting! Thanks. You would not believe how many folks ask me about those types of knives... and they sure beat some of the alternatives. I'll pass on your mods and tips. <br><br>I think I mentioned a "survival knife" my wife gave me many years ago, but it's a 'nother animal from the "issue" styles - and it's been a surprisingly really good knife. I think it has what is called a "saber grind", so it can be a beast to re-sharpen, but it holds an edge exceptionally well. I could do without the "sawback" - but I seem to recall that you recently hacked up a truck cap with one as a simulation of going thru the side of a downed aircraft. I can't think of anything simple to do to eliminate the sawback on mine... so it remains - mostly as an irritant when splitting wood.<br><br>I'm still "playing" with an SRK I bought last year - so far, I like it. Don't like the crinkly powder coat finish so I may strip that off. The handle is quite comfy and functional, 'tho I wonder how it will hold up over the years. Best part is the blade - good old carbon steel and thick as a prybar, it really takes an edge. A keeper for sure, even tho I feel compelled to make mods to it. It was (and is) as sharp a knife from the factory as I have seen - of the 5 Cold Steel knives I've purchased, I will say that thier claims of sharp-out-of-the-box are not exagerated.<br><br>A young man (one of our "extra sons") came by the other evening to show me his recently purchased KA-BAR - alongside his grandfather's USMC KA-BAR from WWII. Other than the powdercoat vs parkerizing and a really minute change in the "blood groove" (can't recall the proper name for it), I was impressed with the faithfulness of the replication. The factory edge was not very noteworthy - in fact, it was somewhat uneven, having been "sharpened" a little more on one side than the other. However, a few minutes with a diamond hone showed that it is going to take a good edge. For the money, that has got to be a great value in a large utility blade.<br><br>Have you seen/used a BK&T CMBK7? Those look like a great bargain - if the knife is any good. Cheap enough to stow in a BoB with a good coat of RIG on it. The Campanion also looks like it would be a dandy economical utility/survival knife. Have you tried out either of these two knives?<br><br>Keep the tips coming, please. BTW, you ever port out of Kodiak? We love visiting there - USCG treats us like royalty. Been going there occasionaly for ~25, 26 years, and it's always the same... nice folks.<br><br>Tom

Tom , Kodiak Airstation was my first duty station. I was married in the Orthodox church run by the monks of Saint Hermans! Have you made it over to Wood(ie) Island just off the harbor? On the seaward side is a natural arch with a few spruce trees growing on top and a giant, half buried russian fishing net float to the side. Barring erosion, the initials "CK& HD " are still on it . I had the SRK. It is a great knife excepting that lousy powdercoat. The current hard shell sheath takes paracord well and you can slip a small flat diamond hone inside. People have really abused them, and report some failure in the handle material. The Falknivens are very similar, excepting the Moran edge ( which I cannot maintain) and a small extension of the tang for a hammer. The whole Becker line is interesting. I've put my fingerprints on a few but little else. The K-BAR / Marine knife is a classic in it's own right. The blood groove is not to prevent suction from preventing withdrawal. That's barracks mythology and cannot happen. Actually, the forging of a groove is an ancient method of compressing the structure for greater strength in softer or more open grained metals. I think we have to do that BIG KNIFE review Doug mentioned in his article.

>>Have you made it over to Wood(ie) Island just off the harbor?<<<br><br>Chris, I know it, but I don't recall that I have set foot on it.. pretty neat recollections you have. When were you there?<br><br>Tom

>>I think we have to do that BIG KNIFE review Doug mentioned in his article.<<<br><br>I second that! May I suggest that we pool some suggestions for evaluation criteria and then let you and Doug decide how much, if any of those suggestions you apply? (OK; I just made that suggestion...) <br><br>Yeah, I check things out on the various knife groups, but MOST of those folks have a different twist on things - even the "survival" discussions are replete with knives-as-weapons chat - while interesting on several levels to me, that's almost irrelevent to what my interests are regarding knives - I can make most of THOSE observations/conclusions by myself almost at a glance. <br><br>I'm much more interested in the usefulness (or lack thereof) as I imagine would be evaluated HERE - actual tests out "in the world". <br><br>Besides, who would write up the test results on "knife-as-a-weapon" evaluations? The winner or the loser of the test? Hmmmm...

Here are some off-the-cuff general ideas on “Big Knife” evaluations:<br><br>1. Presume nothing. For example, I would have knee-jerked a CS LTC Kukri as not suitable for meal preparations if I had not seen my son casually and efficiently use his for that as if that’s what he used it for all the time…<br><br>2. Establish “types” of uses or categories and within them establish specific tasks. Be creative/innovative when evaluating specific tasks – for example, a Machax may split modest sized billets of wood just fine when it is used like a hatchet, whereas an SRK may need to be whacked on the spine with a second billet of wood… my idea is, predefine the desired result, not the method used to attain the result. I could care less how well the SRK does as a hatchet – all I care about is how well does it split wood, what method worked with that particular knife, and how well did it hold up… OTOH, just because a Machax looks like it ought to be employed with a mighty swing… maybe it splits best when held cross-grain and whacked on the spine…<br><br>3. Either report a range of “street prices” for a given blade or categorize the blades into pre-defined ranges like “Up to $50 US”, “$51US - $100US”, etc.<br><br>4. Don’t bother too much with technical descriptions – those are easy enough to dig up elsewhere and may even be prejudicial to the testing (everyone knows that 440 is not as good as A34, right? Right? And besides, drop points are superior to spear points because…) All I care about is how it performs. The rest is only of academic interest…<br><br>5. Evaluate a number of stipulated carry options – factory and otherwise. How good or bad are the factory sheaths/aftermarket sheaths (this is inflammatory if left subjective, so let’s come up with some objective TESTS rather than inspections/conclusions) Lord knows we all have opinions on THAT topic… “Just the facts, Ma’am…”<br><br>6. “Sharp” is a whole category of its own. If new, out-of-the-box sharpness is of more than passing interest. Does the powdercoat interfere with getting/keeping an edge? Does the edge tend to chip or fold or wear or… This is an area where a bit of technical reporting is in order - most of us probably would cringe at trying to resharpen a Moran edge – and the factory grind should be used to pre-determine what method of sharpening will be used for a particular knife, because I do not relish having to completely re-shape a grind in the field with whatever I have on me (having done that, I’m sure of this…) Just as a suggestion, stick with something like duo-folds for the abrasive type sharpening efforts – stock a XC-C and F-XF combo and report what works best… we should be able to take it from there…<br><br>Think of all the different categories of tasks that a survival knife may be expected to be called on to perform and post. A few more will probably manifest themselves after posting…<br><br>Long term testing is a separate topic because… it takes a long time.<br><br>Consider using some additional test persons from here – Chris shouldn’t get to have ALL the fun by himself… (no, I am NOT asking to be a guinea p, er, tester – already have too many opinions to be real objective) I can think of some folks here that I bet would do a great job helping out with real world tests…<br><br>Gotta run up to near Willie’s neck of the woods for the weekend, so adios for now – hope I come back to read a lot of (better than mine) suggestions…<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom<br>

Always an interesting topic for discussion. Without getting into specifics, I know that I personally can weed out at least half of the knives I see at first glance, just on design considerations. Everyone's criteria may be different, but I suspect their ratio of first-glance rejections is at least that. Most reviews, however, ignore a lot of fairly important design points to concentrate on materials and construction.<br><br>Much of the divisive conversation about survival knives seems to hinge on whether it should be useable as a weapon. That derives directly from the anticipated survival scenarios, and this gets into much broader philosophical territory.<br><br>One small point that I seldom see addressed in reviews- I personally dislike knives with asymmetrical blades and symmetrical handles. If it matters which way the blade is facing (pretty much anything but a dagger), I feel pretty strongly that you should be able to tell by feel, without thinking, how it's oriented. I don't mean to offend anyone, but military knives commonly fail on that point. Maybe it's just me.