I appreciate this forum and look forward to hearing from readers who have thoughts about human behavior in stressful situations, and anyone's post-event plans to deal with it.

After watching the human chaos that occurs after catastrophic events (whether it be manmade of natural), and realizing that the US Government has angered a dangerous splinter-culture of martyrs who will retaliate in our homeland someday, I decided to become more aware of emergency preparedness planning. This is not about equipment, but about human behavior, actions and reactions, strategies for specific scenarios.

Has anyone in the forum who lives in a large US city, or is downwind from a city or in other high risk regions, thought through potential disaster scenarios and made specific plans and strategies to deal with it? Assuming you are prepared with equipment, and have no choice but to bug-out, what is your plan? How will you move? Act? Be non threatening, yet prepared? Deal with traffic jams. Looting? Chaos?

IMHO, this is an interesting, intimidating and necessary topic of discussion. I believe situational awareness is as important as knowing the survival tools most of us have on hand.

Dale

Assume the airline crash position; tuck your head between your legs and kiss your you-know-what goodbye. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

(Just kidding.)

It's gonna be chaos, however you look at it. But look at New York City on 9/11. You would think such a horrible act of terrorism would have spawned a total breakdown. Instead it was Mother Nature last year that managed that.

I think it's safe to say you can't predict how things are going to go. To me, the best idea is to try and take care of yourself and your family, along with finding a good location to ride it out. Getting to that location is probably going to involve a walk/hike, so have some good boots!

What are the chances of getting any warning? None.

What are the chances of getting out of Dodge alive with nuclear debris falling for three days or so? Slim.

Where are you going to go that a multitude of other people aren't going to and probably got their first? How far can you go on the gas that's in your vehicle tank? Nearly everyone is going to run out of fuel in the same general area. Are you going to get past them?

Suggestions:

Don't live in a big city. Look at a local map: there aren't all that many exits in any particular direction, are there? Caught in the open on the Interstate with half a million scared, frustrated people is not my idea of a picnic.

Don't live downwind from a big city.

Don't live on the main drag (interstate) out of a big city.

You're just better off not being in a place that could be attractive to terrorists. You can't escape from Mother Nature; besides, she's got a wicked sense of humor.

Sheltering in place still beats bugging out. Unless maybe you have prior knowledge of an event.

Alas, Babylon.

Sue

[color:"red"] "What are the chances of getting any warning? None." [/color]

I have a less fatalistic view. There are warnings systems in place for hurricanes, volcanic, tornadic and tsunami activities. New Orleans had warnings; had people been better prepared with BOB's their circumstances could have been much better. If I lived in Portland Oregon, and Mt St. Helen's started spewing (again). I'd grab a BOB and plan a camping trip.

[color:"red"] "What are the chances of getting out of Dodge alive with nuclear debris falling for three days or so? Slim." [/color]

All the better reason to have plans in place and an acute understanding of your surroundings. Wind direction, traffic patterns, secondary road options.... how about a motorcycle? There's options......

I agree, don't live in a city that may attract terrorist, that's an option for many. And don't bug out if you don't have to, but, be prepared to bug-out if it is an option.

[color:"red"] "You can't escape from Mother Nature........." [/color]

In many cases you can escape Mother Nature but only if you choose not live in a path of destruction, (or below sea level, duh) and believe in the warning systems that are in place.

Urban chaos suggests a riot or other man made "disaster". If it's a hurricane or something else that I can "flee" then I will. If it's a riot, then I'm "hunkering down" and riding it out. Personaly I'm a good boy scout and am prepared for either senerio. But, that's just me and I admit I'm a little wierd. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Urban chaos is a subjective term, to me it means humans in a frenzy, looting, running, fleeing, rioting, all of the above. It's a reaction to an event of some sort, either manmade or natural, that threatens a large population. Urban Chaos can be localized or city wide, like looting of gun stores by gang members in New Orleans. Hunker down if you can, if you need to move, be prepared with the skills and knowhow to become a chameleon......

I recently moved to right smack-dab in the middle of Dallas Texas (I used to live on the far outskirts so-to-speak). I have been looking at the map recently since my move and considering various routes. No matter how how many times I study the map the conclusion is the same. Trying to get out of this city following a New Orleans scale event would be like trying to travel upstream with no paddles and a bunch of holes in my boat. It's just not going to happen. I resolved to look for other options. In the event that there is litterally zero other options other than bugging out of the city, I do know the 10 (actually probably more like 20) best ways out but they all still stink. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I feel your pain Brian. During Hurricane Rita I had several hundred thousand people stranded on my doorstep as I-45 ground to a halt. We had no chance to get out by road, so since then our plans involve hunkering down and loading the guns.

However, there is a railroad tracks behind us that runs north for several hundred miles. Is it actually possible to drive a car along such tracks? I've seen on movies where people lower the air pressure in there tires before driving along the tracks. Anyone know anything about this?

-Mark

The distance between standard railroad tracks is 4' 8.5" apart. What is the distance between car rims? Are they all the same?

But just because the freeways are stopped doesn't mean the trains are. But they could be off schedule. If you met one, what would be your plan?

("Take this offramp, Harry!")

Sue

"If I lived in Portland Oregon, and Mt St. Helen's started spewing (again). I'd grab a BOB and plan a camping trip."

I live 60 miles as the debris flies from St. Helens, and I would just stay home (Portland is just a tiny bit closer). I'm almost the exact same distance from Mt. Rainier (the next one expected to blow -- 5 times the size of St. Helens). At this distance (clear of the blast zone), ash is the big problem. It comes down as light as snow, but when it gets wet, it compares to wet concrete. I would rather be here to shovel it off the roof before it rains. Besides, you have to keep stopping to clear out your air filter, like every 2 miles or so.

"... how about a motorcycle?"

If fallout or falling debris was an issue, you might as well just stand downwind stark nekkid. But a motorcycle could be useful... I am visualizing myself on a motorcycle, with my dog on the back, three cats in the Lexan-domed sidecar, and four really PO'd chickens in a crate in a tiny trailer. HA! No room for a BOB!

"...you can escape Mother Nature but only if you choose not live in a path of destruction..."

Where is that? Not the eastern edge of the Ring of Fire (earthquakes & volcanoes), nowhere near New Madras, Missouri (earthquakes), nowhere along the Gulf Coast or the entire state of Florida (hurricanes), or the east coast (hurricanes, major "frost issues"), or near Yellowstone (volcano), or the Midwest (tornados), AZ is as dry as a bone if the water gets turned off, the northern U.S. sometimes resembles Antarctica... where is that safe place?

IMHO, outwitting Ma Nature can be a real trick! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sue

Susan: That is too funny! I was in the ash fall of 1980 in Coeur d' Alene Idaho....what a mess! We had a tleast 3" everywhere and it was pitch black in the middle of the afternoon....pretty spooky. I too was glad to be home to deal with it.

OH LOOK !! the moon is full tonight and its just coming up over the horiozn...look how pr...... OH CR P!!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have had the unfortunate “pleasure” of being in several urban chaos situations. The latest was this hurricane season. I was in both New Orleans and Miami, but I was also at Kent State during the shooting, in Chicago during the 60 riots, in Tampa during the build-up for the invasion of Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis, in Montgomery Alabama during some race difficulties and quite a number of lesser events like local small riots, power outages, blizzards, heat waves and such. OK, I am an old duffer, but I have an interesting life.

Consistently the most important need was for RELIABLE information. There are always rumors about what is happening and folks on the street will repeat speculation as fact.

Should we run or stay put? If run, where? Which route is safe? If stay put, how long? What will we need and how long will we need it? Who are the hostiles? What are they doing? Where are the friendlies? Information becomes the basis for all subsequent actions.

So, over the years we have learned that the most important “don't leave home without it” is a ham walkie talkie. These are very specialized radios. Gloria (KD5TOW) carries a very small low powered transceiver with extended transmit and receive capabilities. Gloria wants the smallest lightest radio that meets her most important needs. More on that later. Mine (Ron, N1AHH) is similar, but with higher power and more battery options.

Both of these radios will receive on almost any commonly used communication frequency. TV, Standard broadcast (AM/FM), public service, weather, CB, FRS, GMRS etc. Really everything that is not digital (except of course analog cell which is both illegal to monitor and not very useful anyway).

The point is, we have the ability to seek out information and we can communicate with each other under almost any circumstance. The reliable range between us is about a mile, but most of the time it is much more. If we are near repeaters, (devices which repeat our transmissions) we can be hundreds of miles apart. Using special systems like Echolink we can communicate from virtually anywhere to anywhere.

But it is not that simple. During the past year, we have spent significant time in Tampa, Sacramento, Austin, Houston, New Orleans, Miami, Remote sites in the High Sierra mountains, The high desert of central California and many one or two day stops in small towns, cities and remote areas. Keeping on top of the communications scene in such varied areas is complex and requires a diligent effort.

This post is long enough. I will, in the next several weeks, post about the equipment we use, the techniques we apply and the attitude we maintain. Because it will be ham radio specific and appeal to a subset of the group members, I will post the remainder in the campfire. Look for <ham radio> in the subject line.

Nomad you need a new travel agent!

during every storm florida happen to magnitize/ wilma being the bad one at least where power loss is concerned/ buggin out the preferred method of dealing with a crisis was ok/ coleman grills keeping kids entertained and smirking at the gas lines of the people who were nay sayers "we dont need petrol now" testing new headlamps at night overall a good test of your will and prepare

Quite some years ago, I saw something on TV where they found lots of old photos that all had the same guy in them, spanning at least a hundred years.

I guess it must have been Nomad! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sue

Nomad - I think it best to tell all where you are located so we can stay move far away from you! You seem to attract all sorts of calamities.

Although if you want to practice what you preach, you might want to follow him around.

Thanks for sharing.

Ready

Living in the Keys means living with hurricanes. This is the specific and most likely scenario I prepare for. Such preps do carry over to covering other threats. In the past I have bugged out, sent my family on bug out and stayed solo, and have had the family in total bug in.

The key (as has been said before) is information and the wisdom and ability to act quickly and decisively. If we are bugging out we go NOW. Last season we were hit with 4 storms, on 3 of them it was ?send out the family? while I stayed. During one, the girls left 4 days in advance due to the storm slowing down and then they stayed for a couple of days after. We are fortunate to have my MIL in cent Fl. as a BO location. I am diligent about having cash on hand for these events. Giving my wife an envelope with a couple grand to travel with goes a long way toward getting them to leave without argument.

My parents and brother live in Houston, so during Rita last year I encouraged early evac. Of course they didn?t, got caught in traffic and turned around. Fortunately, Rita was a nonevent for them. Unfortunately, to them, this validates their lack of preparedness. <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Due to geography, ie. living 80 miles from the mainland with 1 road out, then reaching a major metro area, precludes my bugging out should an event occur without warning. However, mitigating factors such as easy food procurement (fishing), mild climate, and the curiously individualistic mindset of the long time locals makes this a secure place to live (not to mention we can blow the bridges to keep the MZB?s out) <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Bottom line - plan, gather intel, react.

Scott

Regarding volcanic ash clogging the air filter...I have heard that some people wrapped their filters in ladies hosiery (panty hose, knee highs, whatever) as kind of a prefilter and that helped to somewhat alleviate that problem. Anyone actually tried this? How did it work?

Well, I guess that is why I have this Electronic Bell tied around my neck. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You will probably get farther on a bicycle than you would in a car. It could be hard to get gasoline, and you only have to find food for yourself to power the bicycle. Of course, being in shape first would definately help.

Finding food will just require creativity.

At the least, -a guy of Small Means such as me, -is gonna know which Direction to literally Walk out of my City! Should such major Tragedy strike. It'd probably be an Intermediate to Long Range Hike. To or beyond either our Northern, Eastern, Southern, or Western Suburbs, -depending on which way the prevailing winds are blowing, at the time.

I recall New Yorkers at least TWICE Walking out of their City en masse, -*post* 9-11. Plus of course on the latter occasion itself. Of course I am far closer to my area's Suburbs and Countryside in my much smaller Urban Area, -than they.

Yes I have given Distinct Thought, -of which way I'd do a Walking or Biking Bugout, -should such ever occur. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]dbeeksci[/email]

If you could get across Florida Bay in a Boat or Aircraft, -to that other, more northerly part of your Monroe County, -namely the Glades, -you and your Bugout may be doing Pretty Allright! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]olddude[/email]

I recall Koreans staying in place, -Defending their Businesses from their Rooftops, -during the LA riots. They pretty well Saved their Businesses, -and Very Admirably at that! But they could have very well Lost their Own Selves! There's a good chance that if I were in their shoes at the time, -I wouldn't so do as they! As with Mugging and Robbery, ("Blastedly!") Give them YOUR Wallet and Money! *Don't* Foolishly Fight for!, -and Lose your Own Life over it! As Admirable as such Fight is! And as much as I may want to Clobber the dude! Rather than just Obsequiously Give In! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]Bugman37[/email]

scott i like your thinking there are the 10000 islands (south of marco island fl)which i have camped numerous times perfect place to bug out