Unless you do a lot of jumping out of helicopters or like to drag your ruck behind a humvee over the Iraqi wastelands, most of us could probably make do with other, less expensive rucks, that have proven themselves capable of taking a fair amount of abuse themselves. Kifaru is by no means the end all, be all of rucks, though they are among the best, and it sure helps that they are made in the USA. Having drug my camelbak through the grit, grime and grease of the middle east, I am none too anxious to pitch it in the can and go get a kifaru of my own.

I guess if you can afford it and you think you're gonna be getting into regular fights with grizzlies and cougars or you blow things up for a living and you might need something to hide behind, Kifaru may be the sort of gear you are looking for. Personally, I can't think of anything I would want to live through that is going to fail my motherlode. I suppose that the camelbak being the only ruck they sold at every PX in country I stopped in at doesn't carry much weight either. Then again, this is the same store chain they sold nickel bags of Ramen at for 50 cents a pkg.

I will say this: For half the cost or less of an equivalent kifaru, you are getting maybe 10% less ruggedness out of the camelbak.

Gear selection always involves compromise, and this applies to Kifaru as well as any other gear. There is no doubt that their gear is excellent and more durable than most. This comes at a monetary and weight cost. There is no crime or moral outrage in that fact.

It is incorrect, however, to say that anything less is just a Kleenex tissue waiting to fall apart. A lot of high mountains, vast deserts, and deep jungles were explored without the help of Kifaru products.

I've gotta agree with Ben on this one. I've looked at Kifaru, and I've known people with. And it is major kick-hoop, take-names stuff. It's very similiar in quality to the London Bridge gear I've looked at.

And I can't see any edge over the likes of High Speed Gear or Emdom. I minor edge over Eagle (who, IIRC, makes the military line of carriers for Camelback), Tactical Tailor and SpecOps Brand, but a very minor one. Or even Blackhawk (had one of thier carriers disentegrate on me once) or LLBean (never failed).

I don't need my gear to survive things that will vaporise me, I really don't. I've got better ways to spend my money.

One thing I've begun to notice around here is that some people have no qualms about spending top dollars on certain items (Surefire and Atwood come to mind), but will scrimp on the container that they carry it all in.

Benjamin, you are right, most of us don't need that much, even in a survival ruck (please dont give any more money to AAFES-the Army and Airforce Extortion Service, they suck!).

Camelback BFM's (got one of those too for short jobs) and the rest of that line, the custom Tactical Tailor series, London Bridge, and Blackwater also make a fine heavy duty tactical ruck. But we all have to admit, that there is a lot of junk out there too, (Blackhawk...oops, did I say that) Just strap on an ALICE for awhile and see how your back is not supposed to feel! (I will now accept much flame from the ALICE lovers among us <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />no offense)
I admit that the Kifaru line has me a bit rabid, but please dont feel as if I'm putting down any of the other good gear out there. I just want this gentleman to purchase a good system, I mean good for him, I dont care what company it comes from, one that will hold together when the chips are down, and not leave him looking like a cripple, you must admit, it doesn't feel good.

And just for the record, I didn't intentionally drag my ruck behind a truck, it just sorta worked out that way! LOL <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I do however stand my ground, and I quote, "When was the last time you regretted buying the very best?"

Yup, and I don't mean to sound so critical about how you or anyone else would prioritize their spending for the gear they want. If I were in more of a tuck and roll career, as I once was, then likely I'd be looking to acquire the most rugged equipment I could get my hands on, especially if my life is counting on it. For the more sedentary and cautious role I play nowadays, the most extreme abuse I am likely to put on my gear is a far cry from it's expected limits, not that I'm a slouch, but I'm not as active or reckless as I used to be.

I guess it's the frugal scotsman in me that follows that bell curve of value vs. cost, that law of diminishing returns that says I need only pay for just a skosh more than I intend to use, just so I can reap the full value of the dollars I spend. The only time I complain about spending the money to have the very best is when it requires me to do without something else I think I need because there's just not enough to go around, and there's always something else I need, so for me a certain level of compromise is justified I suppose. The very best, it turns out, is going to end up somewhere below the highest quality, or the biggest, or the most reliable, or the most convenient. It will end up wherever my economics balance with my need, after some careful scrutiny, so that while not posessing perhaps the finest example of a given type, I will also not be stuck with something that won't meet my expectations.

This, I believe, is the essence of the ETS society. We find what works, we evaluate it thoroughly, and we decide if it is worth whatever costs we must pay. Otherwise, I suppose we'd all be driving those new $90k International diesel 5 ton pickup trucks back and forth to work everyday or some such. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I too hold those ALICE packs in low regard.

For your information and education, mommy spit is the common term for the chemical name: Unobtainium. The major problem is finding a container to hold it.
And, please, no bad mouthing the Alice pack. It's a perfectly fine pack, unless you have to carry it.

Hmm, I thought a hanky or a wash rag was a decent enough temporary storage device/applicator for the mommyspit.

Then again, I know a couple cowgirls that dip copenhagen like a wrangler. I reckon theirs is industrial strength mommyspit, as the reaction of their boys to the application is as expected. The good news is their men dip too, so swapping spit for them ain't the revulsion we'd take it for.

The ALICE PACK is good.

The ALICE FRAME and STRAPS sucks. I remember, a long time ago, Ramline of all companies made a really good synthetic frame for the ALICE. Called the Ramflex or something like that. Supposedly very, very good.

If I really felt the need, I'd try HSGI's Ali-Pad with the ALICE frame. That is supposed to be the cat's behind when used with the pain in the behind packframe.

www.tacticaltailor.com Tactical Tailor does modifications/improvements on ALICE rucks. Replacing the shoulder straps and waist belt wouldn't be too hard to do.

Dave