I am reading a book "Wild" edited by Clint Willis. There is a story "Savages" by Joe Kane. He got lost with his native american guides in jungles (more or less modern time). They are hungry. They have machetes, but they neither hunt nor gather food. As he explains, travelling between communities is one thing, but if you want to gather food, then you have to make a base camp, find material for weapons, make weapons, then begin hunting. In opinion of his guides, it is waste of time - it is better to find some community where you can get the food.
There are his thoughts: hunting is too hard work which requires long-term planning and a lot of efforts. This idea is ignored by his local guides. As I understand, the reason is the guides think they had better travel further within this time than staying in one place hoping to be found.
I come again to my thoughts: on military training I was told that if I got lost, I should try to get back as soon as possible, especially in dangerous situation. Therefore, I need to be as light as possible to move faster. I do not need to try to find anything to get me food unless I find it on the way because it will slow me down.
And I am thinking what would I do if I really get lost while walking? First of all, I will think that I am not lost, so I will try to track my steps back. Once it did not work, I will try to orient and then move out of the area, so I won't stop in one place. It might be mistake, but I think this how most people would do. Is it really worth learning how to set snares then if I move? Yes, it catches food while you sleep, but how long will it take to find animal footpath, set the snare, walk safe distance and in the morning get back to collect it?
I also read a book of ex-SAS guy, he also thought snares were just waste of time...
I agree you can use wire from snares for other purposes, but it is a bit different discussion.
Regards,

"I will try to orient and then move out of the area, so I won't stop in one place. It might be mistake, but I think this how most people would do."

You may be right that moving might be the normal human reaction to being lost, but it's also the wrong thing to do. The advice of most Search and Rescue folks is to stay put .

I'm not a big believer in snares either but they at least would give you something to occupy your mind while you waited for rescue. And rescue will come, because you did let somebody know where you would be, right? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I guess it depends on what you are hunting for. We had no big trouble hunting down armadillos using sticks and rocks without any tools. The hard part was then trying to dress and cook the beastie (ugh).

You're probably not going to have much fortune catching things like big game or prime small game species (waterfowl, rabbits, squirrels, pheasant). You gotta think to scale. Armadillo was easy to catch because he's designed as a deterrent, like skunk and porcupine. Catching small to medium non game species of birds and rodentia isn't all that hard, most of em's stupid as a box of rocks. Of course, there's insects and other squigglies that are more gathered than hunted, I don't suppose you can count those as prey really.

That survivorman is catching and eating mice and such all the time on his show using little bait bits from the bottom of his pockets and such (like a spare frito chip). It ain't much granted, but it is something, and it doesn't require much effort.

It would seem that the situation would determine whether or not you would need to hunt. If you know where you are and where you need to get to, you probably don't need to waste time and energy hunting. If you are lost and need to hunt for food that moves, you will probably discover that hunting takes a lot of time and effort, and even with that, you may come up empty-handed. Hunting sounds a lot easier in your living room than in the middle of the Mohave Desert.

I would tend to think that it probably isn't necessary if it's likely that someone is looking for you. If it's a matter of waiting until you're found, park your butt, build a fire, collect some moss or green leaves that will make a smoke signal and set it beside the fire for when you see/hear someone.

However, if no one knows you're gone or even where to look for you if they figured out you were missing, the chances are probably pretty good that you have nothing to build a fire, have nothing to use to catch any kind of game, have nothing in the way of signaling device, and are planning on surviving by sheer dumb luck. It happens. Or not.

The advantage that the guy traveling with the locals had, was that they probably knew the country and knew that if they sacrificed eating for one extra day, they would know where to find a community with food. Knowledge counts.

Sue

I think everyone has the right idea. If you're putting together a PSK for short term survival situations then snares probably aren't necessary. On the other hand, if you're putting together a BOB, perhaps something with a LTS situation in mind, or you're on a long trek out in the bush and won't be considered overdue for some time, the more options you have the better.

One of the bonuses of snaring is that if you know what you're doing it's a more passive than active way of hunting. By that I mean once the snares are set they do the work themselves and only need to be checked, maintained, moved and so on. In other words, they tend to take more knowledge than energy to be successful. Another bonus is that in areas where winters may be harsh, this may be one of the few ways to get food.

When I put together PSKs to be given as gifts I included snare wire "just in case". However, as I stated in another thread, I myself am a touch paranoid. LOL

Of course this is all personal opinion. I could be wrong. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Survival is not a scripted set piece of protocols . Pilot A crashlands in Alaska. Pilot B crashlands in Alaska. Everyone tell me what pilot A and pilot B. do next. I am going to make a seperate post with more information, but make a brief plan based on this information.

O.K. Everyone have a signal fire going? Are you busy building a shelter? Pilot A is Lt Yuri Tselikovskaya and through navigation error went down in Spruce tree covered Kodiak Island, in summer at a time of tense cold war hostility. He sees two Coast Guardsmen playing decadent rock and roll and packing rifles. Meanwhile pilot B was hunting caribou on the tundra when he ran out of gas. There are NO trees and the wind is blowing.

I'm neither a pilot nor have I ever been to any part of Alaska. But, for fun, my answers:
A. If I'm Yuri, I'm stripping down to shirt, trou and boots, and walking toward the Coast Guardsmen slowly with hands up and one of those hands waving a white hanky. If I've got the English for "I Give up", I'm saying it repeatedly. If they don't shoot me, I'm now saying "asylum" frequently, 'cause you know the Reds aren't going to be happy with someone who loses his MIG and surrenders.
B. If I'm the bush pilot, I'd do the STOP thing, wait for my adrenalin to subside, then tidy up my plan and start executing. I'd tend to shelter in place, since the only thing I've repeatedly read about the "rules" for pilots downed on land is "Stay with the plane."
Limited answers, I know, but my own knowledge outside of upland hunting and fishing in the Midwest is pretty limited.

If I'm Yuri then I am going to assume that the two Coasties think I am a defector. I go ahead and let them think that until I am safely tucked away in a nice, warm place with a full belly. Then I go into POW mode--unless of course I do decide to defect.

If I'm Pilot B I stay with the plane, but beyond that it depends on what gear survived the crash, particularly radio or beacon.

Vince

Around here the stupid game of choice is the grouse aka pine hen. They stand there looking at you until you get to within 10 feet or so--reasonable rock range. But I'd still prefer a .22 LR. The other two likely meat critters, rabbit and squirrel, will require a firearm or snare. The only snare I would probably bother with is the squirrel pole.

Regards, Vince

Oh, I was hoping for something a little more interesting, so I could say something like:

Pilot B dies in crash. Pilot A watches B's crash, and follows the resulting signal fire on foot. Pilot A has survival rations until recovered.

In your version, Yuri should defect. The bush pilot... Does he have communications? When will he be declared over due? Most likely, freeze to death.

This is the reason I advocate carrying/ packing food. Hunting/fishing/gathering bugs takes time and energy --I'd rather carry 3,000 calories of food bars and get going.

Fun and amusing answers as always <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> The point of my little exercise is to show how PRECONCEIVED training and mindset need a certain fluidity of thought in the real world. Omega's examples are of a specific culture that knows what works. There WIll be established camps with food farther on and to walk on takes less energy and time than replicating one. Military survival often means Survival, Escape and Recovery- SERE or avoiding all the comanches, japanese, vietcong and middle eastern types played by latin american and chinese actors that bedeviled old John Wayne and Chuck Norris. Our russian was trained to evade, and may very well run into my friend Bart the Bear's relatives or freeze doing it. Pilot B may have a Glock .40 after reading our forum but no Wiggybag, and Mythbusters or not there is no fuel on the tundra to make a decent fire anyway. If hes smart, he drained his engine oil and cut up all the insulation Piper installed in that old supercub. There is no set survival scenario, even in known environs with a carefully thought out kit.

It sounds a good idea of staying put, but there is a chance that you might think:"Oh, I recognise this tree/mountain/bush. Yes, the path is just behind it". After you get there:"Oh, no, I was wrong. But hang on, THIS IS THAT TREE/MOUNTAIN/BUSH behind of which is my path!" etc etc.
And this way you get completely lost. Then finally you understand that all trees/mountains/bushes look the same and you start thinking how to get out of this situation. But your thought is the following: "I have just got lost, it has happened today. So I am only a few hours off the right track. Why should I wait for rescue and suffer if I can find it? It is only a few hours!" Probably, you will try to orient yourself in which direction you walked before (south/north/east/west) and by going more or less straight you will try to find your path. And you start walking again. You may be right and find your way, but also you might be wrong.
Moreover, your live experience will probably tell you that, yes, it happened you got lost before, but you always managed to find your way back somehow. So, if you just keep trying you will eventually find your way back.
I would say abudance of animals/plants significantly depends on the area. Yes, in most cases there are plenty of them, but I was in areas where you do not see animals that often and plants are different so you do not recognise them.

Actually, what I have done in the past when I get turned around (I never get "lost" <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) is mark my current position visually, and then move on from there. The point is to always be able to at least get back to the place where you first realized you were lost. This way, at least you are not ending up further and further away from the people who are searching for you.

This has only happened to me one time (a fog came down suddenly). Of course I always have a compass, and more recently, a GPS.

Again, if you are lost and absolutely have to move, at least make sure you are not getting into a worse situation.

Ha ha ha ha...gasp...

He has a gun but no wiggybag. Yep, he deserves to become the human popsicle for the next omnivore that comes by. LOL...

Any nut stupid enough to fly the bush without packing his frosties really is in the wrong business (he'd have better luck being a meat model for a pit bull trainer, at least the pain and suffering wouldn't last as long).

Kinda reminds me of the Farley Mowat stunt in "Never Cry Wolf", where he packs all those cases of Moosehead instead of real provisions (or maybe that was an act of genius).

After using his Russian military training to evade the Coast Guardsmen, Yuri sits next to his K-36 ejection seat and wonders if he should have joined the Navy instead. He then proceeds to inventory the survival gear the Government of Mother Russia has seen fit to equip him with. Lets see, survival vest, knife, emergency sleeping bag, life raft, seat kit, emergency radio....

When he came across his 24 hour individual food rations, he wondered if starving is really so bad...

Soon Yuri felt dejected... after searching everything twice, his worst fears were confirmed. He didn't have a Glock .40...

Despite his training, he lost the will to survive, and was never seen again.

Pilot B however, knew he'd be ok. You see, through selective absorption of tips from the equipped forums, cast away, and Survivorman, he knew he had to get moving as quickly as possible if he's going to meet his rescuers halfway. He looked around and scanned the aircraft up and down for anything he could possibly use to help him stay alive. The propeller! Pilot B remembered how important keeping his spirits up was in a survival situation, so he took off the propeller, drew a little happy face on the hub, and named it spinny. Now, he was ready to go, and started walking towards the sun. After about an hour, he decided that was hard work, since it was noon, so he just decided to walk left. He continued for a while, every now and then telling no one in particular how dangerous it was.

A couple of days later, he wasn't sure why he was so weak... what went wrong? He sat down, ate some snow, and chewed on a stick that he had given a complex name and deemed edible, but dangerous. Northern Arizona Puffer Fishicus Stick. Rare delicacy around these parts! Now that it was day three, he decided to inventory his gear, which consisted of pocket lint, some string, a paper clip, and old lighter that didn't have any fluid. Meh, all useless. He tossed them.... it was good to get rid of some dead weight anyway so it wasn't so hard to carry spinny around. But wait, what's that deep in his left cargo pocket? zomg, a Glock .40! He knew he'd survive now... somehow. Someone would think twice before trying to take HIS spinny!

On day 7, when his crew didn't arrive, he decided he should stay put. After accidentally shooting himself twice trying to start a fire with the glock, he decided to remove the bullets from the shells. Eventually, he was successful! In torching 291 acres of wilderness preserve. A caribou trying to escape the fire ran past him, but unfortunately he was out of ammo and too weak from loss of blood to build some sort of primitive phaser. He survived for the next two days drinking urine until smoke jumpers found him. Two weeks later, he signed a book and movie deal worth 16 million dollars for his story; "Knowing -- it's half the battle" in which Bruce Willis plays the heroic Pilot B, fighting hordes of enemy terrorists in the wilderness with nothing but his trustly bazooka named "Glock" and Angelina Jolie as "Agent Spinniker", the only thing that kept him from slipping into madness during his harrowing ordeal.

So, was I close? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pilot A: evade t'ill night. Then move in and slit imperialist pigs' throats as they sleep. I now have their guns, gear & transportation mode. Now I figure out how to get back to my side of the Bering Sea...

Pilot B: make sure the ELT is working, use the radio, do a quick recce in daylight for nearby resources (water, materials...) inventory the aircrafts contents, prepare a means to signal my position (or two), bundle up & get as comfortable as possible to wait out the next few days...

I'm glad you brought up Survivorman. Although the show is admittedly a little contrived (he does his best not to be prepared and he does know someone's coming back in a week), it is interesting to watch his "progress." He clearly becomes disoriented and agitated after a day or two with no food. You also see how exhausted he becomes with simple activity and little to no caloric intake. Luckily, I have a few more pounds of fat stored internally for such an occasion.

Yep ! exactly what I say : it's not being overweighted (sp?) , it's just being prepared...... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You know, I got to thinking, and really by far the greatest risks I would have to being in a survival situation would be my hunting expeditions anyways, so if I got lost I would likely be well armed and equipped to hunt. So long as I am ambulatory and not otherwise debilitated such that I could not conduct a stalk or otherwise pursue game, it would likely become one of my necessary tasks. The only difference then being that I would be less scrutinizing about what I would be willing to harvest, and not as determined to avoid encountering other people.