I am wondering how many folks consider their state of fitness when planning strategies for bug-out, shelter-in-place, or generally. I don't mean how much you can bench press, but rather if you can actually execute what you have planned in the event of emegency.
For example:
Can you pull you self onto a roof?
Can you pull/push your children/wife onto a roof?
How far can you actually carry a 5 gal pickle bucket full of water?
How well can your "team" (family) work together to overcome physical obstacles (like getting on a roof, pushing a car, etc)
How hard is it to hitch that fully loaded bug-out trailer to the car in less than ideal conditions?

What I am curious about it if folks have evaluated and considered the impact of fitness on thier survival prospects and if they have actually put their plans/ideas to a test to get a realistic assesment of thier plans effictivness in relation to thier fitness level...
Just curious....

I stay fit because I hunt above 10000 feet. I could do everything on your list reasonably well--for the time being. But Father Time will eventually catch up to me like it does everyone. Eventually I will not be able to do some or even all of those tasks by my self. I guess what is needed is a constant reevaluation of one's capabilities.

Regards, Vince

I have, from the standpoint of knowing my physical limitations, especially as I get older. I have a general idea of how far I can walk, how much I can carry when walking, etc. If given a choice, my Lady and I would prefer to bug-in. If forced to leave, the motorhome is fully stocked, as is, for one week. Given a few minutes, we could add lots more food and water, and extend that week into a few weeks. If forced to leave on foot with backpacks, we are down to a few days without an additional water source. And I know that sleeping on the ground will take its toll on me. When I was in my 20's, it was fun. Now, in my 40's, it is not so much fun. That was our primary reason for getting a small motorhome (21-foot Chinook). We can still drive to the great outdoors and enjoy it (day hikes and such), but get a quality night's sleep. Of course, it also is a great bug out vehicle. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

My survival objectives don't involve climbing obsticles, pushign cars, or wresting bears. I focus on two areas:

1. 72 hours in the field under the idea that something happens and I (or my family or Scouts) have to wait for rescue. This is a rather passive activity where we focus on health, shelter, warmth, hydration, and signalling. The objective is the have the necessary gear and knowledge to facilitate these needs.

2. Preparation for reasonable issues that happen at home or work. In my suburbia, "bugging out" is really not much of an option. Hitting the roads along with the hundreds of thousands of other people who will almost certainly pile onto the roads at the same time is simply not an option around here. It is hard enough just to drive to work on a normal morning. For the most part we will be forced to shelter in our home or place of work, and I try to plan accordingly - mostly involving making sure we have sufficient water - we always keep a decent supply of food for us, our pets, and our horses (hay/grain). None of this really involves climbing on roofs, pushing cars, or whatever. If I have to climb on a roof, I'll use a ladder.

Hello,
The objective of survival for me: Survive.
While my survival objectives do not include the example excerices, my experience tells me that I am unlikley to be in a survival scenario which develops in accordance with any plan I made. That is why I pose the questions. my post is not meant to slight any particular persons fitness level, but rather determine if the typical person realistically takes into account thier fitness level when developing a plan or stragegy for survival.
You state "The objective is the have the necessary gear and knowledge to facilitate these needs."
I agree fully... How much of this gear can you carry if you need to move locations suddenly on foot? Would that be a possibilty?
Perhaps you are caring for an elderly or infirm relative, will your strength and endurance change the way in which you plan to deal with that persons mobilty? How?
Just Curious...

Because I (we) never know how much we'll be able to do in an emergency situation, I have separated my bug-out gear into three levels: nice to have, really should have and must have. Each set is in a smaller bag. If circumstances warrant, I can start ditching gear in order to continue on.

Way to make me feel guilty for neglecting my gym membership!

I try to take into account my fitness level, or rather, the fact that I am a weakling. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I'm only 5'4" tall and weigh less than 110 lbs. My bicep muscles are about the size of kiwi fruits. I need my husband's help to open most jars.

I would like to get up to the military standard of strength fitness (I have the flexibility down pat, and working on endurance), but I've accepted the fact that I can never be an Amazon. I can hike and swim decently, though admittedly not with a great amount of weight attached. My plans mostly involve hoofing long distances with a realistic-for-my-size amount of weight on my back, and using my head and adrenaline in place of lots of gear.

I guess the best way for me to answer is by past results. The key for us is to plan ahead and react quickly in an effort to gain time for dealing with less strength and stamina.

Our most common emergency sitch is hurricanes. My family bugged out 3 out of 4 times last year. I start bringing preps upstairs into our stilt house when a storm is 4 days out, thus allowing for help from friends and smaller loads. My wife and teen daughters BO to my mother-inlaws home in Cent. Fl. with plenty of time to spare.

However, after Hurr. Dennis, age caught up with me and I learned a valuable lesson. I strained my back BIG TIME when twisting and pulling to tie off a tension line to my truck as I prepared to drop a damaged tree. I was totally useless for several days of the aftermath clean up. I now take great care when dealing with any heavy labor.

In a fast moving sitch you just have to do the best you can, accept physical limitation, don't panic and work smarter not harder.

Hey Old Dude...
I appreciate the candid answers. You have outstanding cred with all of the evacs you have been through.
Let me summarize what key points you bring to the table here:
1. Advance Prep for larger loads and tasks
2. Recruitment of Help for moving large loads
3. Performing heavy tasks carefully/slowly within your physical limits.

Thanks Old Dude..
I think that lines up with assessing tasks in relation to fitness pretty well.

Hi Christina,
Building muscle with power excercises will be more productive when it comes to moving large loads, hiking with big pack, etc.
Size is all relative... Your small muscles require less h20, calories, effort, to maintain... Allowing you to carry less.
Just work on increasing power to weight ratios and dont worry too much about being small.
Good general excercises for building big power:
SQUATS
deadlifts
lunges

You will be motoring around with a 5 gal bucket full of waterin each hand in no time... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I constantly think about this topic and so test and at times train for every possibility I might find myself in, but it should be stated that it's probably imposible to plan for everything, not to mention unrealistic to try. However, I seriously take my surroundings, fitness level and so on into consideration in preparation.

Fortunately, or perhaps sadly depending on your take, I am only responsible for myself as I have no family of my own, and no family members in the immediate area. So, as long as I can physically take care of myself, then I'll worry about everyone else (friends, neighbors, etc) if such an occasion ever presents itself.

Yeah... It's probably sad that I think in terms of "Me, my gear, and then everyone else"...

Just so I don't sound like a complete jerk... I would like to mention that I sent out PSKs for friends and family members as gifts for the holidays... LOL

Regarding the question and as you mentioned; if a person is concerned about potential problems of this nature, it's in their best interest to make sure everyone's fitness level is up to the challenge so that they can help one another and also important that they know how to do this effectively before tragedy strikes.

Hello Nicodemus,
I am in a nearly identical situation in respect to self sufficency (that is how I view it anyhow).
My friends are all outdoor types; Climbers/Backcountry Ski/Mountain Bike/ River Guides/ Etc. Very few of them even consider survival in the sense that folks in this group do. Although they all have considerable real world experience in the matter. I actually stock up supplies for some of these clowns when I am stocking my supplies just in case... Most of them would not think too much of having to suffer physical hardship for 72 hours. I am willing to bet some of them would consider being dumped unharmed with nothing in the backcountry for 72 hours as an inconvience and not a survival situation. They would likely look at you and say being cold and thirsty, sleeping in 2 hr fits, stomping up and down to keep warm, etc was no big deal and want to know where the beer/food was (and why I droped them off out there for 72 hrs). This is due to thier fitness levels and familiarity with the environment.
Obvioulsy my survival plans my be slightly different from others in any given situation.
In some situations for people less fit, but more prepared a prudent survival tactic may be to ally themselves with someone more fit but less prepared.
Or perhaps start getting more fit before it is required to perform a "survival" task...

Christina,

I know more than a few buds who have experience fighting against people who were no bigger than you, were poorly equipped, and nonetheless darned near impossible to beat.

Toughness is like sports, mostly mental. If you think you can, you can. There's plenty of 110 pounders out there who can hump an 80 lb load all day up and down the mountains eating one or two bowls of rice and a few grubs, many of whom are also female.

Exercise is about conditioning. A large part is getting your body used to physical exertion and effort. Strength is over-rated. I am 6'6" tall, weigh 250 lbs, and I have to work twice as hard as my pals at elk camp to stay up with them on the trail. I tell ya, it just ain't fair. I'm burning through the calories hiking 5 miles because of my size, and they just keep cruising along.

My only real advantage comes when I have to wrestle the dead bull elk over on his other side and then my strength, mass and leverage work in my favor. Brute force is not an efficient trait in a survival situation.

I think you made the right conclusion, use your head. It don't really take that much gear to get by, if you know how to use it all proficiently.

That said, I can still cover 100 yards up a steep slope in heavy brush quicker than anyone I hang out with. I might need an oxygen bottle at the top, but for now the power's still there. One day it won't be, and this grayback will have to relinquish his position within the tribe to a younger buck. That day ain't as far off as I would like now.

Having been around a day or two... for some, no, not enough hands-on. As for myself, something to this effect came up in another thread, and due to deteriorating health, and the fact that I can't do what I could just a year ago, yes, my strategy is changing.

Troy

And if there's no ladder, and the waters rising fast???

Troy

You got it.

Good questions. I consider myself to be in poor physical condition at the moment, but I guess that's relative. Your example questions are pretty clever, IMHO. My answers are:

>>Can you pull you self onto a roof?<<
Easily, over and over.

>>Can you pull/push your children/wife onto a roof?<<
No need - they can all easily do it themselves, as the sad appearance of our shingles will readily attest... however, none of the boys are "pullable" for me unless I rope them up, and if roped, I would "cheat" and do some expedient rigging ranging from simple to full-bore crevasse rescue, depending on the situation.. Pushing, yeah, I can shove 'em all up over my head and onto a ledge or whatever.

>>How far can you actually carry a 5 gal pickle bucket full of water?<<
Not as far as I can carry 2 pickle buckets, which is something folks may want to try for themselves. 80lbs of balanced water is LOTS easier to carry for 1/4 mile at a whack than 40 gallons unbalanced. And Christina can do it, I'm sure - just divy the load into two buckets - 20lbs to a side - much easier and gets the job done. I switched our scouts to 2 1/2 gallon containers for sissy camping trips and they now have MORE water available in camp than when they had 5 gallon containers - because it's not such a chore to go get 2 ea 2 1/2 gallon containers as it is to get 1 ea 5 gallon container.

>>How well can your "team" (family) work together to overcome physical obstacles (like getting on a roof, pushing a car, etc)<<
Like precision machinery, as they have demonstrated time and time again. But our family is wierd; we do chores together, backpack together, play together, etc. Individualism sucks when there are trees to cut, split, haul and stack, camps to set up / break down, a snow/sand/mud stuck vehicle to recover, etc. and our kids really make me proud of how they stick together and do whatever needs to be done, so, yeah, I'm braggin' on them.

>>How hard is it to hitch that fully loaded bug-out trailer to the car in less than ideal conditions?<<
Don't have one and for now don't need or want one. Maybe as we get older and the kids all move out for good, or maybe not.

Here's something to consider: There have been times when I was simply unable to drag on thru due to exhaustion, illness, or injury. The rest of the family picked up the slack for me every time (and I guess those have all affected most of the rest of the family at one time or another). Sometimes we modified our plan; sometimes we were able to continue as planned, with the others digging in a little more. Having a crew together with you that works well together is far superior to going it alone.

Regards,

Tom

Truer words were never spoke... from an aging laborer.

Yeah, what you said... I've been looking around for some young, strong, "uneducated but willing to learn" folks to start preaching to <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Troy

Nice!
Some golden nuggets of wisdom in your post.
I would love to have a bunch of nieghbors who think like you.
I am also quite envious of the "Crew" mentality your Family displays... That is something that can take a long time to build up, and it's worth quite a bit in adverse situations.

There is clear trend developing here among forum posters:
Use of teamwork will be employed to overcome obstacles.
It's funny, but I expected a much more independant streak than what is showing up in here.

Hey Ben,
Don't stray off too far... You don't get to retire from the tribe when the Young Buck takes over... The Tribe gets a new Elder to help it make wise decisions.

I like to think of the Coyote as a "Champion" survivor.. He (as you suggest) uses wile, the art of "do nothing" and not much brute force to help him survive.

I still get my lifts in though... I am not a Coyote.

Nice,

I like the modular approach... I have pondered the problem of how to carry a large amount of gear on foot... Cause I can't believe my car is an asset once gas is hard to get. On road or reasonably smooth trail I am thinking bike / trailer-kid carrier combo or a big game hauler. Snow is ski/sled time, but I don't get to play in snow very often anymore <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
In any event, man you gotta be pretty fit to pull a game hauler / ride a bike / skin a sled full of crap up a hill. It'll kick your butt in short order. You need back up / relief players if you have a full load. For one man ops, it's a pack or nothing.. You will sacrifice too much mobility with anything else... IMHO.

Very good question/point. I consider being physicaly fit very important. You don't have to be able to run marathons, but walking, lifting, pulling ... are all things you will have to doi in a survival situation. If you are dead tired the day after, you still have to do it all over again . So being fit is an asset.

Knowing you limitations is as important. A fit individual who thinks he can do it all and injures/tires himself out will be at the mercy of circumstances as much as the invalid, elderly, etc...

Float !!

Yeah... I guess that'd work... as long as you can swim, and there's no current trying to pull you away <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

I have a slightly different take on this: IMHO being as physically fit as reasonably possible is a no-brainer. I just wish I could make myself live up to that standard.

OTOH as I look back on my adventures and misadventures in the wild or on the ocean I have to admit that every misadventure and every injury would probably have been avoided by being slothful, lazy, and cowardly! When I "cowboy up" (forgive me, Chris.. I've been a wannabe)I get hurt.
If ever again in a survival situation I hope to be timid, not bold. To carry much less than I think I can manage. To move more slowly, to push less, to risk less, to cut/chop more deliberately..to get warm and dry much sooner. And so on. The others can be Superman. I'll be Clark Kent.