I've been reading this forum for quite a while now, and I STILL don't understand how you get water into a condom under survival conditions. And if all you have around is snow, I don't get what good they would be there, either.

I've used those aluminum foil pans for years, in the kitchen. I wouldn't waste any effort at all including them in a survival kit. If you keep it in it's original shape, you might as well carry a metal cup or something. If you fold it, the same thing that happens with HD aluminum foil is going to happen: holes. (Although maybe you could use it as a funnel to fill up the condom...)

Like it or not, I think you really should take a decent metal cup or something with you. You can't melt snow in a plastic bag under most circumstances. Try it at home and you'll see what I mean.

And I don't understand how you were going to start a fire if you lost your Bic. I am familiar with Coughlin's fire starter sticks, but they have no ignition. And if you do have something that is self-igniting, what happens if snow falls on your fire?

Before you get stuck in a bad situation, I would suggest that you TRY all the ingredients of your kit at home. Find out what works and what doesn't. Theory often has some flaws.

Sue

Sue, I agree that a small metal cup is essential in snow or cold wilderness. My survival kit fits inside the cup, which can fit inside a large pocket (although I put mine in my pack). My way of thinking is to prevent a survival situation by stopping when I start to get cold, and heat some water (or melt ice/snow). Then add instant cider or hot chocolate mix. A little fire to warm the outside, and a little hot drink to warm the inside. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

There are two ways that I know of to get water into a condom. First, pour it in from another container. Of course, if you have another container, why have the condom? I guess to carry additional water? Always seemed too minimalist to me. The second way is to suck up the water into your mouth and spit it into the condom. I guess then you put in a purification tablet? I don't know. I just carry a canteen. To date, it has solved all of my water problems. When hiking in the desert, I have carried an empty platypus in my pack (it started out full). If I was in a REAL survival situation in the desert and found water, I think I would be inclined to stay there and await rescue. If SAR contacted any of my family or friends, they would tell them that is where I would be. Waiting under improvised shade, drinking from my canteen, taking pictures with my disposable camera, and waiting to post my adventures here.

Sue, I have to agree with you about the problems encountered with a condom in survival situations. Frankly, I don't know who came up with this ridiculous condom thing in the first place. As far as I am concerned, relegate them to their intended purpose and find something else for your
kit.

As for fire making, why agonize over this? With all the multitude of gadgets available for fire making, I can't understand why anyone has a problem with this. Everyone has their favorite goodies. I put together little plastic packages of tinder, lighter, matches, lamp oil, and other items and then suck all the air out of them with a vacuum food sealer. Makes a little bundle that you could stick in your shirt pocket.
Sometimes I collect used bird nests, usually wren or other birds that don't use sticks, dry them on low heat in the oven and then vacuum seal them. Drop a couple of dessicants (also dried out in the oven) in the bag if you have them. You would be surprised how small a package you can produce even using two or three nests. I'll wager a cave man would swap you his right arm and favorite club for any one of the various fire starters available to us. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

On the subject of metal cups. I haven't seen anyone mention the little collapsible cups that used to be around. They accordion into themselves making for a small but convenient cup when you need it. I believe they were aluminum but I can't be sure. I'll do a Google on the collapsible cups and post anything of value that I find.

Hope you find something of value in this post. It is just a collection of suggestions. You make the final determination of what you need. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sue, take a look at this 4 ounce stainless cup. Sells for $11.95:

http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/jump....archid=inceptor

There is a similar 2 ounce for $6.99 at:

web page

Do a search on Drake to find the cup. I didn't get the correct web page above.

Boone

Here is the 2 ounce drake cup in case you had trouble finding it on their site. Two ounces ain't much. Believe I would opt for the four ounce from Vermont Country Store.

http://www.wdrake.com/product_detail.asp...p&sort=

With the lid included, it would make a decent "Altoids" container substitute. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Boone

I agree a cup is best. I find them quite bulky, though.

I've experimented with the foil trays. You get fewer leaks in the foil if you fold it less. If you merely flatten it, you may get something that will fit in the large plastic freezer bag the medkit was in and which can be reshaped without holes. If you try to make it fit a smaller PSK by folding it over once or twice then holes are probably inevitable.

In practice I found the leaks are often quite slow, little more than a pinhole that drips. I found that I can boil water in them despite the leak, provided it doesn't drip onto the fire and put it out. It can help to pinch off the hole to make it slower.

I've also found even a leaky tray is a good support for something else that may be water-tight but not fire-proof. For example, a plastic bag. Put the water in the bag, the bag in the tray, and the tray over the fire. Support the tray, not the bag. Any exposed bits of the bag are liable to melt so its probably best to cut them off.

In theory you can boil water in a plastic bag on its own, because the water takes the heat away so the bag can't get any hotter than 100c. In practice I find the parts of the bag not touching the water melt, and I've never figured out a way to support the bag over the fire without more melting/tearing/spilling. The combination of bag and foil seemed to work better.

Sue,

I agree that a condom is not a practical water container. I watched Cody Lundin blow one up and tell us it was a good water container. Also Scott Kozakiewicz from ASU lists a condom for a water container. When pressed about it he said you have to spit the water into the condom. If you have tried adding water under a faucet you will see that just flowing water does not fill one up. I think a quart or gallon zip lock bag is much better. A Platypus bag is even better.

I am able to make a usable cooking cup out of an 36" x 36" square of HD aluminum foil. Like the one in the Ritter PSP. It needs to be folded twice so it is 4 layers thick. Then have about even bottom and sides and fold up the sides. Now roll the corners. It will not leak and will be stable. You now have a square cup like container that can be used to boil water. Give it a try!

No offense intended, guys, but....

Too often I see people at this site who seem to be more concerned with the size of their kit than its usefulness. I guess this okay if the only places you go is the rut between home and work. It's a hobby in theoreticality (?) that probably will never be used.

HOWEVER... how smart is it to arbitrarily designate the size of your kit, force the contents to fit, and then find yourself in a real survival situation? A good, well-thought-out kit for most situations should fit in a fanny pack. Why force it to fit into a 1"x1.5" mint tin?

Two of the most common hazards of operating away from what currently passes for civilization are dehydration and hypothermia. You don't even have to be in the wilderness -- all you have to be is beyond shouting distance of people, with a broken leg. How wonderful it would be THEN to open your kit and find a metal cup stuffed with Bics and matches!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Granted, most of the kits used by ETS members are hobby kits, never to be used. But if you need it, you're probably going to REALLY need it, so why cheat yourself on contents?


The original poster of this thread lives in Canada, pretty cold country to be caught out with minimal fire and water-heating capability!

Sue

Long story short, Sue, I agree with you 100%. While I do believe in a pocket kit, my EDC isn't neccesarily ON BODY all the time, mostly in the car or truck. My "close by" kit is in a medium ALICE pack and a small ALICE pack (from Brigade Quartermaster) in whatever I'm driving. The small pack straps to the medium one, but can be worn by iyself for short "patrol" hikes, while the larger pack can be left in place if I plan on coming back. I guess some would consider this a BOB, but I'm never more than a couple hundred yards from it, EVER!!! Just my .02.

Troy

> And I don't understand how you were going to start a fire if you lost your Bic.

He also had a ferro rod and striker. He had two means of starting a fire. What would you consider better than "minimal"?