Okay, i've finally ditched the camera bag and went back to a sturdy Zip-Loc, medium-size freezer bag to carry my wilderness survival kit. This kit was made for the fall/winter season, more precisely for my snowshoeing trips.

It looks like this, fully packaged with air sucked out of the bag :



Here is the kit unpacked (the only item not pictured is the flashlight).



Nice and simple! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(Note : I also carry a seperate first-aid kit.)

Okay, I'll bite. Quarters?

i'm unformiliar with the candaian terrain and i don't even know what part of what kind of terrain you will be using this kit on. But a few suggestions.

I haven't seen a knife or (snow)saw. 2 very valuable tools to make shelter and fire to keep you warm. Properbly one of the most importent thing in cold conditions.

some tinder for you ferrosium rod, you only carry those tinder sticks. I'm not formiliar with them, but most tinder sticks are harder to light than normal spark grade tinder.

maybe matches, because it's harder and more importent to beable to make fire in cold temperature.

a thing to melt snow in, dehydration alone is dangarous and dehydration will creat a higher chance to get cold injuries. Think of a alluminium tray to melt snow in. But having a container to collect water with either a snow " marchmellow" or from a cloth sack filled with snow suspended close to a fire will be nice too.

first aid selection is a bit small, do you carry a additional FAK?

I like the zip ties. I have some in mine, but I've never seen them mentionmed here before. They're light and take up no roon, but are very strong.

Yup, in case I find my way out of trouble and end up needing to call someone from a phone booth. Actually, there's 3 $ in the kit so it might also be used to purchase a bottle of Gatorade after a very long and tiring walk out of the woods (I still hope that the convenience store clerk would give me one for free in a real survival situation).

Would you simply take the quarters out of the kit, because of their weight?

No compass?

MP1 tablets would be an improvement over the iodine.

I would also throw in a condom as an emergency water container. The only thing there that looks like it could hold water is the main baggie that holds the kit. Any bag used like that would quickly develop leaks and be useless for holding water.

Also, how much heat do those warming pads give off? In an emergency situation, would they be warm enough to make a difference?

Just some thoughts. I am not an expert.

Hi there PC2K,


Mostly on showshoeing trips that might last anywhere between 2 and 10 hours, or for hiking in the wilderness.


I forgot to add that I am EDCing Victorinox a One-handed Trekker that has a nice, half-straight half-serrated blade. It also has a surprisingly good saw, which I used two or three times since the beginning of winter here. Should've added that.


Argggg, I forgot the dryer lint! It's being ressuplied as we speak (little bag is on the drying machine).


I never really thought of taking matches anymore since I have the Bic and it case of failure, I can get a fire going with the dryer lint and tinder sticks, but I presume you are saying this because you didn't know I had dryer lint in the kit beforewards.


You're absolutely right! I need something to melt snow in and to carry the resulting water. I was thinking of emptying the Zip-Loc and holding it next to a fire? I don't like the idea of carrying a folded piece of extra-strength aluminium foil, i'm sure that I would spill my water at the first distraction or bad step!


What kind of tray could that be?


Yep, I carry a medium-size FAK with meds, gauze pads, gauze rolls, triangular bandage, tape, sanitizing gel, tweezers, ointment, Hypafix... I'm pretty satisfied about it.


Thanks for your very interesting reply, PC2K... got me thinking of a few things! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

actually i did read about snowshoe trips, but does the terrain has tree's, is the ground frozen or does a early snow drop covers a still warm ground surface, etc? Adapt your tool selection accordingly. If you have lots of wood to work with, than you might consider taking a bigger saw with you than the on on your SAK to make shelter and produce firewood more efficiently. It's will most more weight and bulk, but survivalkit are always a compromise of weight/bulb and capability.



if you use dryer lint as tinder, make sure it will burn. Synthetic fibers don't burn well. I personnaly prefer vaseline soaked cotonballs.



try to look for those throw away kind of alluminium trays people use to bake thing in the oven with or look for the those alluminium containers your take-away food comes in. Not a full replacement for an actually pan, but much beter than alluminium foil.

also you might consider some high calorie food, you need additional energy to keep your self warm.

Hand warmers are awesome kit for cold climates... Unless I've fallen for some sales hype. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Someone who's more medically inclined might be able to put this better than I, but from my understanding:

When your body temperature drops, the blood vessels in the outer regions of your body constrict both to reduce heat loss, and to keep the circulation inward where vital organs are. Err... Perhaps that is the same thing explained differently. LOL In any case, the effect on your extremities from this is a loss of sensation, reduced functionality, and possibly frostbite depending on the temperature.

Hand warmers will help maintain finger functionality and help prevent frostbite. Dexterity might be what it takes to get a fire started in an extreme survival siutation especially when you find you have to take off your gloves for a period of time.

You have to be careful though, some hand warmers run in excess if 130?F.

I still carry 2 quarters in my WSK. I don't know if all the pay phones I might encounter have been switched over to the new style or not, so I include them just in case.

Regards, Vince

Another option is a prepaid calling card. Copy the card info (phone number, code, instructions) on a small slip of waterproof paper and perhaps laminate. I've been carrying the same card in my wallet for 7 years (bought it for use at the hospital when first kid was born, still not used it up). It has come in handy in situations where I don't have cell coverage (or battery charge), provided you can still find a pay phone. If some nice person lets you use their phone in an emergency you don't have to worry about making them handle the charges.

Precisely. That's why I have two of those heat factory pads. I don't remember the heating temperature of them but I remember thinking they were pretty hot when I read the label the day I purchased them. Plus, they are pretty cheap (1-2$ each). I guess you can just activate them and put them wherever you feel cold and it should provide a lot of warmth!

I like the handwarmers. I carry them hunting. A few weeks ago on the deer stand, I got rather chilled. Dropped one down the front of my shirt and one down the back. MUCH more comfortable. Almost toasty.

Thanks for the suggestions. I might dump the iodine tabs someday but I feel that i've invested enough time and money to build my kit, for the time being. I know little about MP but my cousin, who is gone in India for 6 months and does not want to buy bottled water for environmental reasons, relies exclusively on a water purifying chemical called Pristine. I might upgrade to that one day after some research.

Thanks for the condom idea. I'm still debating if I will bring a metal cup or something similar, or just rely on the transportation aspect which a condom would be perfect for.

Thanks for your ideas! By the way, the Zip-Loc freezer bags are surprisingly strong, they need to be mistreated a lot for them to develop a leak. If they get a leak, you can fix it with the duck tape... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

As I mentioned in another thread, made PSK’s for brothers at Xmas; included Micropur MP1 tablets for water purification. Needed some sort of water container, but discounted condoms (too puncture-prone for my liking, and no practical way to repair, e.g. with tape, given their expansion/contraction characteristics).

Was in Costco one day, buying Tri-Tip (familiar to Californians); bagged the meat with one of the clear plastic bags commonly found in supermarket produce/meat sections. Noticed that their plastic bag was the toughest (thickness, tensile strength) I’d run across – significantly better than, for example, Safeway’s.

So I grabbed a couple, and used those for PSK water bags. They’re 19-in. x 13-in. Using a waterproof permanent felt-tip, marked 1-quart and 2-quart increments on each bag.

They folded nicely and, of course, weighed nothing. They’re larger than needed, since a bag full of water would be prohibitively heavy, but didn’t trim, figuring the excess would aid in tying-off after filling with a couple of quarts of water.

Yes, they can still be punctured, but in a pinch, repairable with duct or other tape. Because I’d included a collapsible 10-oz. cup/cooking container made from extra heavy duty aluminum foil in each kit (cut/fashioned from Reynolds Foil Hot Bags), I also included 6-in. of aluminum tape for possible cup repairs. Found this tape works equally well on the plastic bags. If you’ve ever used it, you know how sticky it is.

I have memorized my calling card number, but one could put it on waterproof paper as mentioned here. Or just include a non-regular use credit card which should be able to handle both the gatorade and the call. I've found payphones where $3 wouldn't even get me past the first minute. <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Some vending machines can take the gold dollars or Susan Bs, but that's pretty hit-or-miss. A quarter could be used as a sinker if you knew a sling knot that would hold it in line. I've also seen them used as last ditch screwdrivers and prybars. With a WHOLE LOT of grinding, you might get a usable edge on one too (maybe pre-edge one as an emergency knife?) Of course, defacing money is illegal - and I wouldn't want to hand a sharp coin to someone.... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There's probably any number of other uses - I just hadn't ever seen that in any PSK, so I wondered....

As to using a coin for a sinker, I have been drilling a small hole (~1/16inch & deburred) near the edge of coins carried in a kit so it can be used as a sinker (use a girth hitch to attach the coin anyplace along a fishing line). I do not know enough about fishing to know if polishing the coin a bit (or getting a new coin) would allow the coin to be used as a lure.

I have had mixed feelings about carrying coins in a small kit; but, do at least cover the button switch of a Photon light with a taped on quarter. I have stopped carrying photons on my keychain because of all the junk I carry in my pockets. Once a light was accidentally turned on and used up the battery. Another time the button switch just plain got bashed in. I also wonder what would be the best denomination coin to carry in a kit. The fellow who tends the vending machines here at school says all the machines will take dollar coins. However, the pay phones do not seem to take dollar coins. So, for now, I carry a couple quarters in a kit.

A drilled hole might cut through even the toughest line if it gets twisted/caught and you could lose your hook - or worse, your catch. I'd make sure you file that hole down to make the edges rounded over.

Could be a decent lure too, I hadn't thought of that!

You can shape and fold a piece of tin foil into pouches, cones, pans... lots of useful shapes. I've been looking for the best aluminum for the job, but haven't found it yet. Done properly, they don't even leak. Those Gerber milk bags seem pretty useful and small if you want a backup water carrier to your bag. The suggestion to use a disposable aluminum pan is interesting... also affords some protection to your kit since it's just in a bag.

Your kit is nice and gives me some food for thought!

Bee,

Is that the Coghlan’s Survival bag? If it is that is my favorite survival shelter. I have tried plastic sheet, tube tents, HD Space Blanket, HD Space blanket with hood, small Space Blanket, and Space Blanket bag. I want my shelter to protect me from the wet ground, wind, rain, and bugs. Of all the things I have tried the Survival Bag makes me feel most secure. Let tell you how I modify my bag to make it more useful:

I put duct tape on the ends with washers so that the open end can be held open in a triangle shape and the closed end is held in place. It is easy to catch the edges of the bag as you get in and out. The duct tape can tear out if it does not have the washers. The 3 mil plastic is tough!

The closed end should only have one strip of duct tape in the center as it is laid flat. If you put on more you will not be able to lay facing feet up. Your toes will push into the secured end of the plastic bag. If you just secure the center your feel will have room. Put one short piece of duct tape across the seam. Then take another piece and make a tab that has a metal washer in it. Poke a hole through the washer.

For the open end you have to measure the opening so that you will have three equal sides with one side on the bottom with the bottom seam. Now put a piece of Duct tape across and then make a tab with a metal washer in the end of the loop. Poke holes in the duct tape in the center of the washers.

If you carry 4 small steel tent stakes like I do then you are good. If you plan to make some out of wood or use rocks then I suggest you tie some Para cord loops in the duct tape where the washers are. Now you need about a 10 foot length of cord for the top duct tape tab. Tie a taught line knot. Keep this tied at all times. When you store the bag just throw the cord in the bag before you roll it up. The taught line at the bag allows you to adjust the tension while in the bag.

Here is how I use this plastic bag:
Find a tree or something you can tie your top cord to. If there is nothing suitable but you have two sticks you are still good. Pick your spot. You might want to put something for padding under the bag. Face into the wind. If there is no wind, face west so the opening (east) gets the morning sun. Roll out the bag and stake down the front two tabs. Then stake down the back tab. If you have a tree or something you can take the top cord and tie it any way you like. Then use the taught line to snug it up. If you only have two sticks push them through the taught line knot in a crossed stick manner and then stake the end of the cord down for stability. So the cord will go up to a tree or be over crossed sticks and staked to the ground.

To get in I suggest you sit down facing the opening and sliding in waist deep before you try to lie down. Make sure you do not have anything attached to you that could rip the plastic. I learned that the hard way. Slide all the way in. You will find that you are fully protected except for the opening. You could use your poncho to cover the top part of the opening if you want. I have thought of getting some netting to duct tape on, if needed, to keep bugs out. You can not seal the bag or you will suffocate. You can cover the top of the bag with whatever plant material is around for insulation. You can use your small Space blanket to cover yourself or use it to reflect heat from a fire. I also carry two clear trash bags that I can use for transpiration or filled with plant material as blankets.


What do you think? Sorry I don’t have a digital camera to take any pictures.

I'd second the hand warmers -- a fast cheap way to warm up. Ditto the high calorie food ( granola bars) and water. The biggest change I'd make is adding a snow shovel for digging.

as an aside: i'd make up kits for those I'm hiking with: just a ziploc with a bandana, 4 granola bars, a lighter two jumbo trash bags, whistle and a couple of hand warmers

I've been reading this forum for quite a while now, and I STILL don't understand how you get water into a condom under survival conditions. And if all you have around is snow, I don't get what good they would be there, either.

I've used those aluminum foil pans for years, in the kitchen. I wouldn't waste any effort at all including them in a survival kit. If you keep it in it's original shape, you might as well carry a metal cup or something. If you fold it, the same thing that happens with HD aluminum foil is going to happen: holes. (Although maybe you could use it as a funnel to fill up the condom...)

Like it or not, I think you really should take a decent metal cup or something with you. You can't melt snow in a plastic bag under most circumstances. Try it at home and you'll see what I mean.

And I don't understand how you were going to start a fire if you lost your Bic. I am familiar with Coughlin's fire starter sticks, but they have no ignition. And if you do have something that is self-igniting, what happens if snow falls on your fire?

Before you get stuck in a bad situation, I would suggest that you TRY all the ingredients of your kit at home. Find out what works and what doesn't. Theory often has some flaws.

Sue

Sue, I agree that a small metal cup is essential in snow or cold wilderness. My survival kit fits inside the cup, which can fit inside a large pocket (although I put mine in my pack). My way of thinking is to prevent a survival situation by stopping when I start to get cold, and heat some water (or melt ice/snow). Then add instant cider or hot chocolate mix. A little fire to warm the outside, and a little hot drink to warm the inside. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

There are two ways that I know of to get water into a condom. First, pour it in from another container. Of course, if you have another container, why have the condom? I guess to carry additional water? Always seemed too minimalist to me. The second way is to suck up the water into your mouth and spit it into the condom. I guess then you put in a purification tablet? I don't know. I just carry a canteen. To date, it has solved all of my water problems. When hiking in the desert, I have carried an empty platypus in my pack (it started out full). If I was in a REAL survival situation in the desert and found water, I think I would be inclined to stay there and await rescue. If SAR contacted any of my family or friends, they would tell them that is where I would be. Waiting under improvised shade, drinking from my canteen, taking pictures with my disposable camera, and waiting to post my adventures here.

Sue, I have to agree with you about the problems encountered with a condom in survival situations. Frankly, I don't know who came up with this ridiculous condom thing in the first place. As far as I am concerned, relegate them to their intended purpose and find something else for your
kit.

As for fire making, why agonize over this? With all the multitude of gadgets available for fire making, I can't understand why anyone has a problem with this. Everyone has their favorite goodies. I put together little plastic packages of tinder, lighter, matches, lamp oil, and other items and then suck all the air out of them with a vacuum food sealer. Makes a little bundle that you could stick in your shirt pocket.
Sometimes I collect used bird nests, usually wren or other birds that don't use sticks, dry them on low heat in the oven and then vacuum seal them. Drop a couple of dessicants (also dried out in the oven) in the bag if you have them. You would be surprised how small a package you can produce even using two or three nests. I'll wager a cave man would swap you his right arm and favorite club for any one of the various fire starters available to us. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

On the subject of metal cups. I haven't seen anyone mention the little collapsible cups that used to be around. They accordion into themselves making for a small but convenient cup when you need it. I believe they were aluminum but I can't be sure. I'll do a Google on the collapsible cups and post anything of value that I find.

Hope you find something of value in this post. It is just a collection of suggestions. You make the final determination of what you need. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sue, take a look at this 4 ounce stainless cup. Sells for $11.95:

http://www.vermontcountrystore.com/jump....archid=inceptor

There is a similar 2 ounce for $6.99 at:

web page

Do a search on Drake to find the cup. I didn't get the correct web page above.

Boone

Here is the 2 ounce drake cup in case you had trouble finding it on their site. Two ounces ain't much. Believe I would opt for the four ounce from Vermont Country Store.

http://www.wdrake.com/product_detail.asp...p&sort=

With the lid included, it would make a decent "Altoids" container substitute. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Boone

I agree a cup is best. I find them quite bulky, though.

I've experimented with the foil trays. You get fewer leaks in the foil if you fold it less. If you merely flatten it, you may get something that will fit in the large plastic freezer bag the medkit was in and which can be reshaped without holes. If you try to make it fit a smaller PSK by folding it over once or twice then holes are probably inevitable.

In practice I found the leaks are often quite slow, little more than a pinhole that drips. I found that I can boil water in them despite the leak, provided it doesn't drip onto the fire and put it out. It can help to pinch off the hole to make it slower.

I've also found even a leaky tray is a good support for something else that may be water-tight but not fire-proof. For example, a plastic bag. Put the water in the bag, the bag in the tray, and the tray over the fire. Support the tray, not the bag. Any exposed bits of the bag are liable to melt so its probably best to cut them off.

In theory you can boil water in a plastic bag on its own, because the water takes the heat away so the bag can't get any hotter than 100c. In practice I find the parts of the bag not touching the water melt, and I've never figured out a way to support the bag over the fire without more melting/tearing/spilling. The combination of bag and foil seemed to work better.

Sue,

I agree that a condom is not a practical water container. I watched Cody Lundin blow one up and tell us it was a good water container. Also Scott Kozakiewicz from ASU lists a condom for a water container. When pressed about it he said you have to spit the water into the condom. If you have tried adding water under a faucet you will see that just flowing water does not fill one up. I think a quart or gallon zip lock bag is much better. A Platypus bag is even better.

I am able to make a usable cooking cup out of an 36" x 36" square of HD aluminum foil. Like the one in the Ritter PSP. It needs to be folded twice so it is 4 layers thick. Then have about even bottom and sides and fold up the sides. Now roll the corners. It will not leak and will be stable. You now have a square cup like container that can be used to boil water. Give it a try!

No offense intended, guys, but....

Too often I see people at this site who seem to be more concerned with the size of their kit than its usefulness. I guess this okay if the only places you go is the rut between home and work. It's a hobby in theoreticality (?) that probably will never be used.

HOWEVER... how smart is it to arbitrarily designate the size of your kit, force the contents to fit, and then find yourself in a real survival situation? A good, well-thought-out kit for most situations should fit in a fanny pack. Why force it to fit into a 1"x1.5" mint tin?

Two of the most common hazards of operating away from what currently passes for civilization are dehydration and hypothermia. You don't even have to be in the wilderness -- all you have to be is beyond shouting distance of people, with a broken leg. How wonderful it would be THEN to open your kit and find a metal cup stuffed with Bics and matches!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Granted, most of the kits used by ETS members are hobby kits, never to be used. But if you need it, you're probably going to REALLY need it, so why cheat yourself on contents?


The original poster of this thread lives in Canada, pretty cold country to be caught out with minimal fire and water-heating capability!

Sue

Long story short, Sue, I agree with you 100%. While I do believe in a pocket kit, my EDC isn't neccesarily ON BODY all the time, mostly in the car or truck. My "close by" kit is in a medium ALICE pack and a small ALICE pack (from Brigade Quartermaster) in whatever I'm driving. The small pack straps to the medium one, but can be worn by iyself for short "patrol" hikes, while the larger pack can be left in place if I plan on coming back. I guess some would consider this a BOB, but I'm never more than a couple hundred yards from it, EVER!!! Just my .02.

Troy

> And I don't understand how you were going to start a fire if you lost your Bic.

He also had a ferro rod and striker. He had two means of starting a fire. What would you consider better than "minimal"?

Sue, my survival tin will hold about 500 or so Altoids if I was to use it for such a thing. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Bigger is better, until it gets too big. I CAN"T carry my surival tin with me as EDC becuase it is too inconvienent. But I do carry on my person at least one knife, one multitool, and one flashlight, every day. Medical and firemaking materials are all around me, even if they aren't very traditional.

Carry what you can when you can. Carry your head every day.

I roamed around on eBay today looking for handwarmers. The best deal I could find per unit was forty cents each.
Anyone interested in 110 of these critters can look at eBay
item 8 7 5 1 1 1 2 7 5 3. Cost plus shipping figures out at forty cents each. Expiration date 2011. This is a Buy It Now deal so there is no bidding. If you don't need this many, there are lesser amounts available. Some are out of reason on price and some not so bad. As I said, figure about forty cents each. On the search feature, key words are "HAND WARMERS".

Also priced these new, longer Trioxene Heat Tabs. They are scored for breaking into three pieces and last much longer than the originals. Several BUY IT NOW offers. Best deal I found is about 15 cents per tab which includes shipping.
Key search word "TRIOXENE". One such sale is number 6 5 9 6 7 5 8 6 6 8.

Boone

I'm not certain about others, but for me socially it can be rather difficult to carry around a hip pack and certainly a man purse is out. Sure, if I'm going out hiking or biking, a backpack, fanny pack or Camelbak isn't a big deal. But just walking through the mall or going out to eat?? Nada. I try to wear Cargo pants and carry a fair amount of equipment, but even that's not always possible.

My point is that the only equipment you can use is that which you have with you, and in some situations you can't have anything larger without looking the fool. I think that for the smaller kits like an Altoids tin, it's a safety net. They aren't an end-all to survival kits and I think everyone here would agree with you that more is better. There are times I could see a small kit in a pocket being useful, but more importantly, I'm worried about the times that I can't forsee. Plus, you can split up that fanny pack into a couple of large mint tins and put them in your pockets - much easier to get away with.

Just because it's a hobby (as you say - may never get used) for some it doesn't mean that it's any less important for us. I'd probably include myself in that since I don't go in the bush or fly my own plane, etc. Normal people find themselves in emergency situations all the time. Knowledge is most important, but even a tiny little kit can save your tail.

Like ironraven I carry a Spec Ops Pack Rat. Black, Cordura 1000, produced by a company that specializes in military accessories...

It would have Tim Allen grunting in a manly way.

If someone has a problem with a man carrying a "purse", then I say that the problem is theirs, not mine. I feel more confident in my abilities to handle unexpected situations by carrying some choice items and having them close at hand. If that's less than socially acceptable, then call me a social outcast and so be it. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I think your kit is way too small for a snowshoeing trip. Think worst case scenario: 500 meters from the parking lot, it's getting dark. You fall, stupid insignificant fall, but you've broken a leg or hip. You are alone ? You cannot move without excrutiating pain. You've got to spend the night there. Temp goes down to -20C or lower or it snows....

I carry a day pack, with bivy bag & blanket, extra mits, dry socks, tuque (toque) power bars, water ... Only thing missing is a camp stove of somekind, I figure I'll build a fire (ain't gonna get any sleep anyways ...) Survive t'ill morning when hopefuly someone will come you way on the trail.

Yeah, those are pretty cool looking... if you aren't in a suit or in a place where it matters if people think you are crackers (professional type workplace, social situations with your spouse, etc.).

Although for parental gatherings I think most carry enough equipment to start a third world country, so I wouldn't stand out. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Granted, you could stash a lot in a briefcase or more socially acceptable transport. Just make sure nobody sees your camo Pack-Rat and 5" fixed blade knife when you open the hatch! <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Salut frankspinz!

In my original post, I was only talking about my survival kit. Whenever I go snowshoeing, I bring my superb Osprey Switch 40+5 backpack. Built-in is a 100 oz hydration pouch that I fill up with water. I am also well geared up in regards to clothes, boots, toque, headlamp, etc. I always bring a small mat to sit down, spare mittens and toque, etc. I think I would do pretty good in the situation you describe. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

This week-end, I bought a nice 16 oz insulated bottle. I didn't want something bulky with handles, etc... so I chose this Thermocafe brand (Thermos) bullet style bottle. From now on i'll be filling this up with some hot chocolate or chicken broth for even more comfort. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Most of the time, my Rat sits in my backpacket along with a water bottle, often with spare socks. It could be put into a slightly more upscale backpack/back-breifcase, or into a double sided laptop case. If you were looking for something a little smaller, the smaller organizers that SpecOps and others make would be fine for concealing a PSK.

And I wouldn't use camo- black goes with everything.

So this goes in your pocket?

All my gear I'm talking about goes in my Osprey backpack, along with the survival kit I have pictured above and improved since that post, replacing dryer lint with cotton balls soaked with petroleum jelly.

In the summer, on fishing trips for example, this survival kit would still get the job done so it would probably come along unchanged.

I just grabbed a few more of these at Waldy tonight. A 4-pack (2 pair) goes for $1.28 where I live. So, 32 cents per. Strangely, the 6-pack (3 pair) goes for $1.97 - 32.83 cents per for those who care. It's just a hair more than the base cost of that auction you pointed to. But without the shipping, it more than makes up for it. They have loads of them laying about.

My local Chinese Conglomerate, er... Walla-Mart has clearance aisles and these things typically show up about the end of February when they get in the spring stuff. I've seen these 4-packs go for 50 cents and one time I snagged a boxful at $0.25 per 4-pack - yep, about 6 cents per warmer! If you get that deal, I recommend reselling them on eBay. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Not a bad price. I'll watch for WMT's spring clearance. I bought several from them once on sale and during hunting season, they barely got warm. I never knew they had an expiration and wouldn't have paid any attention to it if I had known it.
Well, I wrote the company (Heatmax) in Dalton, GA. They were very apologetic and said to return what I had left. I did and they sent me a whole case with a letter of apology. In these days of big business, you have to appreciate a company like this that still seems to care. From now on, I'll buy Hot Hands2. I notice now they have a bigger one they call a body warmer. I've read that you can snuff one out prematurely by putting it in an airtight container and then reactivating it later. I am skeptical but will try it. Last ones I saw there were NO NAME brand, no expiration date, and made in Korea. Guess they got a better deal than they did from Georgia. Need to keep our foreign friends in business. I read in the paper that WMT is the largest importer in the US of Chinese merchandise. Go figure. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the info.

Boone

Yeah, I just saw that they account for 10% of our trade deficit with China. 10%. I'm currently reevaluating my dependence on cheap Chinese goods. I find myself looking at "made in" labels a lot more and opting for German, Japanese or UK make if USA isn't available. But sometimes they have run our guys out of business and Chinese suppliers are the only ones left... <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I remember reading somewhere that Walmart is the PRC's fifth largest trading partner. The rest of the US still has the shame of being number one on that list. Walmart beat out France, btw. At least on the data I saw.

That's the shame of it all.

Think about what the PRC is doing with the money it gets from us. Think of tall pointy things that travel a long way and make a big bright flash when they arrive. <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

They have thier nukes, yeah, but most of what they are buying is tactical hardware, mostly Russian, but some of it from the Isrealies (and mostly stuff they made for/with us, or stuff we liscenced them to make for themselves- the AIM-9X and the seeker for the Hellfire-Longbow in particular). From the Russians... Wow, what is Moscow thinking? Tanks, gunships, these can threaten Taiwan, the PRC has no sealift capability to speak of, and even less ability to fly thier tanks in, assuming the runways are still in existance. The Indians don't have much that the ChiComs would want, and they have to go over the Himyleas to get there. The only use for all those tracks is a northward joyride.

If we get it, it will be a dsabler attack with the nukes, most likely. DC, Pearl, Diego, Guam and some of the bases on the Pacific coast. The real fight will be for Siberia. Of course, the Russians might pull the Indians into it, which in turn could make all the warm fuzzies between the ChiComs and Pakistan kick in... Yeah, four nuclear powers. Just ducky.

I feel sorry for the Japanese, they are downwind of the whole mess. And just think, we'll have provided the cash for all of it.

A Pax, a Pax upon us!

I couldnt agree more about the cup...
I would say in general wilderness travel a cup is as important as anything else in your kit (maybe not the knife?). You can't improvise a metal cup. You could improvise a serviceable knife easier than improvising a cup.
Your comment on the desert is pretty true:
"If I was in a REAL survival situation in the desert and found water, I think I would be inclined to stay there and await rescue.."
I live in Las Cruces, NM. I spend much time in remote desert areas. If there is a reliable perrenial water source (I wish, as of yet I have only seen them in movies.. I have been here on-off for 20 years) there would be a constant stream of animals to be eaten if hungry, water to drink, wood to burn (any desert plant exposed to year round water is gonna be huge) and people nearby or soon to be nearby.
From what I know about Desert Survival, there ain't gonna be any water in the desert that you dont carry into the desert.
I have tried to get water using every trick in the book. I have gotten usable amounts of water 2 times (both from digging!) out of 12+ attempts and counting. And I am doing this with everything I need, under ideal conditions.

I've had good luck with the Primus tea pot. The opening is big enough to use as a pot or bowl. I cooked some chili in there and ate from it with a cut down plastic spork that fits inside.

Tea pot chili! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Bee:

I saw a post on some list (I read too many to keep it straight) that claimed you could boil water over open flame using a turkey baking bag.

I'd love it if you experimented and reported on this. If it works, it would be a reasonable compromise for a metal cup to use for melting snow, maybe even purifying water or cooking food.

Bear

In Mogadishu we used them to hold our ice cubes in our scotch.