Between reading here and elsewhere, I think I will go for the nine. I called my local dealer (who's shortly going out of business! <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ) this morning for a price quote...he'll have to get back to me tomorrow because of the holiday. I checked another store that has *some* Glocks in stock, and they had a high-cap G23 for only $509, so I should get a comparabile deal. Well, taking into account that I want night sights that is!

Now to other considerations (and apologies if this should be in a new thread - I just figure 'since we're all here...')

Holster: I've heard good things about the Milt Sparks Versa-Max 2. And being for a Glock, the backlog may not be *too* bad if they try to have some made ahead.

BUT then I consider that I won't be wearing the gun every day even after I get my permit. Even if I thought I could keep it concealed at work under the standard issue 'lab coat' that would be a flimsy cover garmet, it is verboten to have guns at the store. For most of the Monday-Friday time the only difference with a permit would be that I could keep the glove-box UN-locked with the gun there (but only when I'm IN the car!).

So...for those relatively few times where I'd be able to wear it on my person - do you think your basic Uncle Mike's/ect would do the trick? Or should I spring for a premium holster no matter what? If it makes a difference, I'd prefer to carry IWB...and I'm a fairly hefty guy (6 foot, around 235 pounds, wear a 42 or 44 pant depending on the fit).

And training...the great thing about where I live is that I can go out and practice in the backyard pretty well whenever I please. True, this is not 'training' in and of itself, but at least it gets me familiar with my guns.

The statement that 9mm ammo is just as effective as 40 might apply to practice, but is not supported by the facts regarding self defense.

If you want a good semi-auto for practicing with, Glock has several models that fit the bill. If you want a good semi-auto for self defense, pick one that shoots the largest, most powerful cartridge you can reliably handle. For some folks, that may limit them to a 22 lr. For others, a 45 auto will be a better choice than lesser cartridges, such as the 9mm and 40 S&W. It's all a matter of ability and committment.

PharmTech

Don't forget to check out other brands besides just Glock.

I own a Springfield XD-9, and love it. In particular, it has a grip safety. This makes it much less likely to go off while in a holster. The polymer-frame auto market is actually very crowded right now. I cannot think of a single major (or even mid-sized) manufacturer that does not offer a polymer 9mm.

Yes, it is possible to safely carry a Glock, but even cops have shot themselves, so it pays to be paranoid. If the trigger goes back, the gun goes boom. There have been cases of the gun going off while being re-holstered. Of course, you can think "I would never do that," and you may even be right. Raise your hand if you have never made a mistake. Now, everybody else with their hands down, think about getting a pistol with either a manual or a grip safety (or better yet, both).

This is not to say that anybody on this forum is lax in safety issues or clumsy. But we ALL are human, and we ALL have made mistakes.

Just my $0.02. Feel free to disagree.

Why not both? IIRC, the .40 Glocks can accept an aftermarket 9mm barrel as a drop in replacement. Then you can use 9mm magazines (heck, I hear that the .40 mags work in a pinch) and rock-and-roll. That way you have the power of the .40 until you expend all of your ammo, then you can switch to the 9mm if you are scrounging around the blue helmeted guys <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

With training you can become proficient with any caliber. Premium self defense ammo is virtually indistinguishable in performance (i.e. it is shot placement that counts, not bullet performance).

I use the Milt Sparks Versa Max II for my commander 1911. Excellent holster. Pricey, but worth it. Just make sure it is mated to an equally well-performing belt.

Edit: my statement about self defense ammo applies to 9mm and above. I would be leary about using .32s or .25s as anyhting but a BUG (back up gun).

Also, if Milt Sparks is backlogged, try lightningarms.com. A little more pricey, but they have a lot on stock for rapid shipment.

I dunno about glock... But 9mm over .40 any day of the week.
I have a Sig P226 & a Sig 229 (for carry) both in 9mm. I have friends who I shoot against in the uspsa and idpa that wont touch a 9mm 'cause its a "minor caliber"... But we all agree that it makes little difference what caliber you are being shot at with, if you are being shot at by someone who is "practically competant" with whatever handgun they are using; You are going to get bad hurt or dead... and fast.
9mm is cheap cheap cheap
you can afford to shoot shoot shoot
One side note: 9mm is the handgun caliber most capable of penetrating kevlar and/or other protective clothing/devices due to its small mass/high velocity. Most handgunners train to shoot center mass and will therefore shoot center mass when under duress. The .40 is practically ballistically designed to NOT penetrate kevlar (one reason the LE communtiy loves it; They dont have to worry as much about fratricide) .40 came about as a "happy medium" between .45 and 10mm after the somewhat overpowered 10mm problems in the LE community... 10mm is nice too...
Point is that kevlar is cheap and freely availible to anyone. If you are facing down a determined hardend criminal, they may well have kevlar on...

Just my 2 Cents...

I wish I could spell...

Well, that'd be true for 9mm vs. Kevlar if all your shooting is fmj, but any expanding round is gonna fail to penetrate unless it has a hardened core as well.

That said, I don't know too many tough guys that would stand up to being hit in the torso with 10mm or 45, whether they're wearing body armor or not. Likely they are gonna get knocked down regardless, even if it doesn't penetrate, but 9mm ammo doesn't have the thump factor unless you get the velocity up around 357 mag full house ammo.

Let me put it another way. Let's say the 200 lb maniac wearing level 3 is running toward you from 25 yards out full tilt bozo. You can empty all but one round from the mag on a high cap 9 into his torso, putting all hits in the armor, and he'll definitely be feeling the hits that will sting like a sonofagun, and you might slow him down enough to squeeze off that head shot at 10 feet. But you are not going to stop his forward progress up to that point unless one of the rounds penetrates the armor and hits something imminently vital, and that's not going to occur unless you're shooting fmj ammo.

That same guy is either gonna get knocked over backwards or dropped to his knees if you do the same with 200 grain JHP 10s or 45s. It is irresistable force being applied, and he just doesn't have the mass to overcome the inertia in the rounds hitting him.

Here's another perspective. Throw a baseball hard as you can at a guy wearing body armor, hitting the armor squarely. There's a lot of energy in that baseball, but it doesn't push him around. Now take a bowling ball and do the same thing. It is going a lot slower, but he can't help but be displaced.

Hopefully that helps.

Aim for the face or crotch... either way, kevlar won't help <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

P.S. Bountyhunter, wherever you are, you'd like this new guy...

Benjammin,
I don't train to shoot center mass... And I do sometimes end up with a clip of fmj in my 229 (carry gun).
I am confident I could dispatch/render worthelss meat a 250lb maniac with less than 4 rounds of 9mm given an ideal situation as presented in your post.
I know I am not the average gun carry.. On average weeks I run 3-4 hundred rounds through my 226 and half that for my carry 229. I have my own neighborhood tactical range facility to train at, and all kinds of crazy ideas get tried out there frequently. EX firing through objects into targets, skip shots, etc... IDPA gets ya hooked... The main point is that the caliber is not what kills you.
I sincerly hope I never have to use any of my defensive weapons against a living target...
I also wonder about the scale of your perceptions of ballistic physics. How much of a blow do you think a typical man can take? Do you really think a .45 is going to knock down a 250lb dude wearing a level 3 kevlar vest? Wow! thats a lot of power... I guess based on that that I should go flying backwords when I get hit with a 12ga? Or why does my .243 not blow a 95lb javalina into the next county when I hit it square in the shoulder? Hmmm....
Must be somthing wrong with my .243...

It could be done, but AFAIK, the barrels for the 9mm Glocks of the same frame size won't simply drop into the .40SW frames. They are a bit smaller.

Never even heard of someone making a barrel that would do the conversion, and it would make me nervous. Too many chances for screw ups, particularly with the same slide.

I'm with ya Ben... that's been my arguement for years <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy