Well, what do you know. I stopped in Wal-Mart on the way home the other night for some oil, and I took a path through the Food aisle, and there I saw Star-Kist tuna in foil packaging - much like an MRE.

http://www.starkist.com/products/

Expiration date was Novmber 2008 - not as long as a "real" MRE, but certainly enough to keep a few in my car and computer bag.

In sniffing around the food aisle, and inspecting expiration dates, I found quite a range of longer-life non-canned products on the shelf, including not only the Tuna, but also a variety of dried foods, which are less useful in an emergency, but still not a bad thing to pack.

As a test I ate the tuna for lunch today, and I'll pronounce the water-packed better tasting, and the sunflower-oil packed a better "energy" food (more fat) but, to me at least, not as tasty.

I've been looking more closely at the expiration dates. With high-temperature treatment and cobalt irradiation, it seems that many of these "to-go" foods can be packed for 2 or more years, no problem.

They say it tastes better, I didn't see a real differance. My mom liked them. The Dollar store near me had them 1 or 2 for a buck.

Dave

Martin,
I recently got some packets of Spam regular and turkey that were packaged in the same way. I thought about using them as BOB foods as well as the tuna.

These packages of Tuna and other foods in pouches are becoming more and more common.

They are suposed to taste fresher because the thin pouches do not have to be heated as long as cans.

In canning, the product is sealed in a can and heated under pressure in a retort chamber.

In the case of tuna, a can of tuna is heated for about 4 hours to sterilize the contents. With retort pouches of tuna it only takes about 45 minutes (thiner package, transfers heat faster). The pouch tuna should have less of a "cooked" taste due to the shorter processing time. In addition, to keep the contents of a can from scorching during the longer heating period, more liquid has to be put in a can.

That's the reason that pouch tuna does not have to be drained and should taste better (at least in theory).

I still buy cans, because it is cheaper. At least right now you can by canned cheaper. The actual cost of producing canned vs pouch is about the same. Canned is cheaper now because plants already have canning equipment, while pouches involve new equipment.

Ron, thanks for the explanation.

Dave

Thanks for the information. Do you have any idea on how long the foil packs stay edible in long term storage as compared to canned? I'm particularly interested in how well they handle repeat freeze-thaw cycles.

Regards, Vince

StarKist has a recommended shelf life of 4 years on canned tuna and 3 years on pouches.

I do not know why there is a difference.

What other foods packaged in this style are currently available, other than the tuna and Spam varieties mentioned? If there are lots. just a few would be helpful. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I'm sure it's more cost effective than some other options.

I bought some pre-cooked ground beef that way a couple of years ago, I did not care for it at all. We were going to use it on a camping trip and it looked and smelled spoiled so we ate something else that night.
Taught me to learn to check things out before using it where I didn't have a backup in case it didn't work.

Best answer there is to go to Walmart or large supermarket and walk the "canned meats" isle. This type of packaging is getting to be more and more common.

You can buy several types of rice/pasta dishes that you microwave for about a minute in the pouch and eat. I have found precooked hamburger meat in pouches. (I tried that thinking it might be good for camping, but smell and texture reminded me of dog food.)

One thing that I have found that is very nice for camping is precooked bacon. It comes in a sealed clear pouch and can be stored without refrigiration. Shelf life is 4-5 months (check date on package). Less than a minute in a pan or on a stick over the fire will warm it up. Also, real bacon bits in a 3-4 oz pack can add a lot of flavor for a little weight on a backpacking/camping trip. (Really improves the taste of instant grits.)

The main reason I have paid so much attention to such food is that I am lazy, but I like to eat well on camping trips. On camping trips, food that does not require a cooler and ice makes things much easier. Precooked requires less fuel and less prep time. These foods make it easy to pack light.

On my last camping trip I baked a ham in a cast iron dutch oven. Took over 3 hours. I enjoy traditional campfire cooking, but it is a good idea to have quick and easy backups even when you plan to spend the time to do the real deal.

You tried the ground beef? Did it smell just like Alpo to you?

I mixed it with a sloppy joe mix and tomato paste and it wasn't too bad, but I have never been tempted to buy it again.

Basically, yes. I thought about trying some of the other flavors, such as mexican or italian flavoring types, but I am kind of leary of it now. It has been a couple of years since I tried it, so I might try again.

What about the Armour dried beef? I know it is in a jar, but couldn't you put it in ziplock bag and use it?

The dried beef's GREAT for chipped beef on toast, that's the only way I've ever had it... be forwarned, its pretty salty.

Troy

If I'm not mistaken, you can get the Armour dried beef in a pouch here in OH

I have found some pasta dishes, beef stew in foil pouches. Be observent in the grocery store and you'll be surprised as to what you find packaged like MRE's. I have found par cooked rice also in plastic packages.

In the UK you can get John West Light Lunches, which are a kind of tuna salad that I like very much. They come in a shallow foil hexagonal tray and don't need cooking. Contents include potato, sweetcorn, peppers, onions etc. I eat roughly 2 a week. They keep for several years so are a convenient food to stockpile at home for sheltering in place. I do keep one in my car as well, but I don't know how long they last in that environment.

I thought I was correct, just got back from the grocery [Meijer] and picked up two family size pouches [4.5 oz] of Armour sliced dried beef -- according to the website it should have a shelf life of two years or so -- at $2.49 certainly cheaper than most mre's. Of course, it's loaded with sodium, but so are most mre's. At least I have something tasty for my survival kits now, and easy to rotate too.

http://www.armour-star.com/index.cfm?page_id=122

I think the typical MRE is about 1300 calories and actually has a pretty good balance of vitamins. I am definately going to pick up some of that Armour beef to augment my rations, but I don't think it compares nutritionally to an MRE.

Regards, Vince

Hello Martin,

I have read all the posts about the StarKist tuna and keep thinking I will see someone mention that the StarKist Tuna Creations (Hickory Smoked) are a product of Ecuador and the StarKist Light Meat Tuna Fillets (Teriyaki) are a product of Thailand. This concerns me somewhat. I just have to wonder about the conditions under which these products were packaged and what, if any, local regulations come into play. It seems that every year less and less is produced in this country. No wonder we have a gigantic trade deficit. In this instance though, I am concerned about the cleanliness of the provider's premises.

Anybody else have any reservations about this? <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Martin,

I read the FAQ's on the StarKist link you provided. They kept name dropping (a not uncommon occurrence from time to time on this forum) the FDA and the EPA but nowhere in the FAQ's did they mention that they were packaged in foreign countries. So,
I clicked on "Contact Us" and sent them an email detailing my concerns about the cleanliness of the packaging and the purity of the product. I will be interested in seeing what they have to say. If they reply, I will post their response here on this thread. Maybe I am just seeing spooks where there are none but I want to know that what I put in my mouth is clean and safe to eat and that there is some regulatory agency at their factory to assure me of this.

Stay tuned. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Boone

Troy, I have to wonder if you ever went thru basic military training and awoke to find chipped beef on toast. It was the most dreaded item on the menu. It had it's own unique name. I won't repeat it here but it had to do with ROOFING! <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Clue: SOAS

Boone

It's food, and as such, it needs to pass U.S. standards, the same as drugs sold here, but as to the point that it's being shipped in from outside our border, I'm in complete agreement with you. That's about all I'll say on the matter, if I get up on the soap box, I'm liable to get another post shut down <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

Basic... no, but I know what you're referring to, good ol' SOS. Never had it "in service", but I've had it fixed by a navy cook, and went back not only for seconds, but thirds. I guess it's all in what you like, I guess that could explain my enjoying MREs too <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

Biologically, the product has to be sterile; otherwise it would spoil within a matter of hours. True, it could have chemical contaminates, but that would likely be due to the source of the fish not the processing plant (possible but unlikely) and therefore whether it was processed/packaged in the US is irrelevant.

I have had the opportunity to visit a local yogurt making plant in Quito, Ecuador and can tell you the sanitary conditions, the quality control and freshness of the product is equivalent to anything in the US and perhaps even better. All fruits that went into making the product are harvested, shipped and processed into the yogurt within 12- 24 hours, some of the best yogurt I have ever had in my life. Health officials regularly inspect the plant; it has and maintains modern equipment equal to anything in the US.

Pete

The retort pouch is basically just a high tech can. It is made of laminated films instead of metal.

If you check out the regular canned foods, like sardines, you will find that many of them are canned outside of the US. You would be hard pressed in the US to find a can of Corned Beef that is not from South America.

Of course, it is no surprise that products like coffee or bananas are almost always imported, but if you look close at labels you will probably be surprised at how much of your food comes from other countries.

I will not get off on the political rant about imported products, but just add: Why should retort pouches be any different from other foods?

Looked at nutritional info for MREs at www.millenniumark.net
Typical in garrison Messhall food gets you 3,000 to 6,000 mgs of sodium per day ( 3 meals). MREs contain between 1667 and 2336 mgs of sodium per individual meal, not counting the salt packet. RDA for sodium is 2400 mgs.
Dave

If I'm not mistaken, MREs have a higher caloric intake as well, and presumably in a survival situation you may not even be eating more than one meal a day. Plus these are designed for military use where a human body is under a great deal of stress and daily activity. So that soldier is burning a lot more calories than I am sitting on my can in front of my computer. They are also, presumably, drinking a lot of water and sweating. So the sodium intake is to put back what they are losing. They probably also need potassium and some other electrolytes.

6000mg of sodium might seem like a lot, but your average American diet probably takes well over the 2400mg anyway. A Super-size fries is about 400mg and a King-size BK fries is like 1100! A QuarterPounder with Chees is 1150. A McD's Chicken Selects 5pc has 1500mg and a deluxe breakfast has nearly 2000.

So don't go slamming MREs... they were designed for a specific purpose. Forward deployed troops without access to a mess hall are typically burning more calories and sweating out salt. The same might be true in a survival situation.

One thing I do know... if all I have to eat are MREs, I'm not going to care how much salt I'm eating as long as I have plenty of water. It might concern those with HBP, but meds should help with that as would eliminating as much of the salt as you can before eating and drinking plenty of water.

By the way, nuts and peanuts are really high quality sources of emergeny calories. Efficient, delivering good fat, protein and carbos (both complex and simple sugar) and in a good ratio (higher fats and about even protein and carbs. As long as you have a mix/blend, you should also get decent mix of vitamins and minerals.

Edit: By the way, I'm just saying that MREs have their place, and someone reading that they have a lot of salt may skip over them as an option without more information. :-) I really didn't mean this as any sort of directed flame or anything.

Same place lists 1300 cals. per meal.

Dave

Scott O'Grady mentions in his book, Return With Honor, that once aboard the helicopter after being rescused, he was offered an MRE (Meals Rejected by Ethiopians). In spite of the fact that he had been without food for a number of days, he took a taste and passed on the rest. This was after eating ants and drinking water he squeezed from the socks he was wearing.
I guess MREs are an acquired taste, not to be found in the Officer's Mess.

I dont understand O'Grady's rejection of MRE's.

Whenever my MRE's reach 6 years old, I consume them. Of course, I take them out of their container and nuke them. Also, I bathe them in spicy sauces ... but then, I do that to all my food. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You obviously do not frequent the Officer's Mess!
<img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

After getting the worst case of food poisoning I've ever had at the Army chow hall in Baghdad, I did a thorough evaluation of what good food supplies could be sent from home. I too found the tuna in a bag, along with chicken in a bag, and shrimp in a bag. I also found several ready made pouches of rice from Rice-a-roni, Uncle Bens, and Zatarains. I also found a number of ready made soup pouches from Bear Creek. All of these were heat and serve, capable of being eaten as is right out of the bag, or being nuked in a microwave or in a pot of hot water in the container before being eaten. All of them withstood vigorous shipping and handling conditions and all of them produced relatively pallatable meals. I also got a number of freeze dried backpack meals, and was issued nearly a case of MREs. While the soups were mostly water and therefore a load to carry, they were quite convenient and substantial enough to satisfy me as a meal. All of the containers were very durable, and withstood boiling temperatures quite well. Unlike the tuna/chicken/fish and freeze dried foil pouches, the soups and the rice were in HD poly bags. For extended storage, they may be prone to some gaseous infiltration, but in the 8 months I had mine, none of them ever exhibited any failures.

Were I interested in constructing my own MREs, I have no doubt I could find suitable components. The re-packaging would like be in a more rigid, shockproof container, but the results would be similar.

I've also found sources of freeze dried eggs in mylar pouches, and TVP products. The TVP stuff is so hardy, I keep it in plastic cannisters with screw on lids that I retrieve product from. So long as I don't let it get wet, it doesn't seem to change much over the course of a year. Even fresh, though, it is a poor substitute for real meat. The best of it I've found so far is the fake taco meat ones. Of course, it is an excellent additive to other dishes where the taste and texture are more determined by the other ingredients.

If you don't mind breaking away from Western type food, I've found a few types of Indian food packaged in pouches. I've had a few different types, the taste has been pretty good. As with any package food there is also high sodium, so I don't make them my every-day meal. They are handy in the desk drawer for when I forget lunch and can't get away from my desk.

I have purchased them at the local supermarket under the " TastyBite " brand. Trader Joe's in my area has a store brand of similar make.

The tastybite web site states "Remains fresh for 18 months". I have a Trader Joe's Pav Bahji in my desk that has a 1/07 date, bought it a couple months ago. I've had a TastyBite pack that was at the month of expiration and it tasted fine.

Plus, in a survival situation, the pungent smell of curry could be used as an olfactory emergency beacon! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I've got a pouch of the Starkist hickory smoked Tuna in my pantry now (to eventually meet it's fate as dinner), and another plain pouch in my cars 'bugout-backpack.' I remember some Rice-A-Roni in a pouch, but the one I tried a while back tasted pretty lousy to me....

Another survival food option maybe...how about those Dinty Moore (and other makers now too I think) no-refregerate Microwave Bowls? They can also be boiled (in theory, I haven't tried it myself). Shelf life is OK, about a year. The turkey and dressing one is delicious, I haven't tried any others. There's quite a variety now: beef stew, teryaki chicken, lasanga, ect. Anyone have any experience using these for more than lunch at the office?

If you ain't burying cans of them in the woods, why not store food you eat normally and just cycle through it as you go? Eating and replacing your stored food saves you the hassle of worrying about experation dates.

One food that I think is great for storage is grainseed. I buy buckwheat and millet at the livestock feed store for my chickens. Mostly I feed them a laying crumble based on corn and whole oats, but I also give them some buckwheat and millet. Now, the buckwheat they carry is the same stuff that those maple syrup festivals use so it is eaten all the time by people. The millet is edible but it have some small stones and debris in it. I just shake a jar full and the stones settle to the bottom.

Buckwheat and millet contain every amino acid required by man, even the hard to get 4, and in good quantity. If you want to store months worth of food for several people or even several dozen people, I cannot think of a cheaper, more nutritious way to do it.

I store canned food, and more recently MRE's, but I don't normally eat them daily. So what I do is use them up on my hunting and fishing trips. I typically end up rotating them once a year.

Your idea about storing grains is probably a good one but getting me and my tribe to process them into something edible would be difficult. I think we would all be clamoring for MRE's in short order. Flour, beans, and rice make a little more sense for my situation, and that's something I'm beginning to stock up on. But canned food is going to remain # 1 with me for the forseeable future.

Regards, Vince

Yeah, I tried the Hormel chili in a box and its good.

t

Don't worry about trying the Italian or the Mexican style ground beef. Both smelled like spiced Alpo. My wife picked up three packs of the stuff for our camping trip, one of each flavor, and a regular ground beef. We opened one , the regular,our first night out, it was ok with pasta sauce. the other two, well, the peanut butter sandwiches we had were pretty good.