Well said, ParamedicPete.

One of the tough parts is that we heavily depend on some of these coastal communities for a number of reasons.

It seems like it's all about band aids and never a cure, never lesser (albeit heavy) spending in preparation and always heavier tolls after the damage is done.

Hi Susan,

I didn't come away from your post thinking you were against helping those in need. I think I understood what you were saying. While I agree in principle (why should I be paying for those who can pay for themselves, yet choose not to?), I still think my post makes my point. The people who have money shouldn't drain resources and should have their own survival setup, etc. I just don't know how you say "no" to them. When you setup a survival center and stock it you can't really turn any peaceful person away unless you simply don't have capacity (even then, I'm not sure about the morality). Obviously the fools who could have saved themselves are going to be no better off than the poor soul who couldn't afford anything and will most certainly be reconsidering their preparedness situation if they survive.

The problem is that you still need to build up the infrastructure. And I was trying to point out that although it may seem unreasonable, that the better prepared government is, and the more able they are to "turn on a switch" as you put it and get things back up, truly the better off we are. I don't see it as a whingy American thing and I'm not talking about from a convenience standpoint. I mean simply that society at large, prepared, unprepared, rich, poor - it doesn't matter - the less time we have to stay in survival mode, fewer people die and the faster things get fixed and the local economy recovers.

If you are just saying that there are people who are idiots and refuse to do anything and drain resources, I agree. But how do you 1) "say no" to them and 2) turn them away from a survival situation? You really can't do either and they will probably only learn from experience since they are usually the people who refuse to listen to good sense.

I certainly wasn't flaming and I'm willing to listen to any ideas you have on the subject, to be sure. But just saying those people suck and something needs to be done specifically about "problem people" really doesn't accomplish anything. It's true, and certainly it sucks, and I'll fight to the death your right to say it. I'd just like to see your frustration put to good use. That's why I suggested the volunteerism and political activism. While you may not be able to shut these people down - you can make such situations as a whole as good as possible for EVERYONE, and hopefully the losers with all the toys will learn and perhaps not suck resources from those who truly need it anymore. And even those who are prepared may fall into the group of those in need (that was my other minor point). One other issue that I thought of responding to this is that some folks who pay taxes for things like this might feel a sense of entitlement... like "I pay taxes, therefore, I'll use the facilities my government provides." Those folks will probably find out faster than the other fool just how much they get for their tax dollars. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

agreed... nice post - And I wish our governmental bodies didn't define the phrase "Penny Wise and Pound Foolish". Replacing an aging dam is a pittance compared to billions in lost property and worse, lost lives. Of course, if governmental bodies were subject to loss lawsuits (however limited) then maybe that would change. But our poor legal system is already overtaxed and abused... we need a new method of repercussions for those who fail at the job of governing. Any ideas? <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I once worked with a fellow that had a theory "Stupidity should hurt, people would learn much faster" and I have to say, I agree whole heartedly. If folks were left to their own resources more often, they might manage them much better. I know that there are many times when the right thing to do is to jump in and help, if a person falls in the water, you don't let them drown. However, if the same person rebuilds in a flood plain, or in an area prone to mudslides, year after year, sooner or later, you have to say, enough is enough. As to how one determines the needy from the not so needy, your guess is as good as mine, but N.O. was a catastrophy waiting to happen for decades. As for the folks in Fl., it's my understanding that building codes and insurance breaks for beefing up construction are encouraging better building, hence better preparedness, good for them. There is no simple answer, here in Il. we have tornados, Ca. has 'quakes, but who ever you are, where ever you are, you deal with it one way or another, and in most cases, it's without the Fed.s stepping in to bail you out. This rant's getting a little long in the tooth, so to sum up, I guess the feeling that some of us have is, pull yourself up by your own bootstraps, and for those who won't or can't, well... the gene pool needs more chlorine.

By the way, I am by no means trying to speak for anybody but myself, but I can't help but think that I'm not the only person that thinks along these lines, and if it's not all touchy-feely politically correct, tough... well, you get the idea.

Troy

First of all, I believe strongly in personal responsibility and the ethical requirement, that people be held accountable for their actions. I feel strongly that people should be self-reliant and should be prepared to handle much/most of life’s emergencies as possible. However, many natural disasters are on a scale that overwhelms not only an individual’s resources, but also often local and regional resources.

Most of us are not an island onto ourselves, our culture, economy and a whole host of other factors, requires us to be part of a community, be it local, regional or global. I guess I am one of those that believe, at least to some degree, we are our brother’s keeper.

Yes, I (the collective "I") may be dumb enough to want to build in an area prone to flooding, mudslides, etc., but it is the government (generally local municipalities) through zoning regulations and building codes that allows and/or even encourages building, growth and inadequate building design in disaster prone areas. Therefore the government must in part be held accountable for the result. Regional approaches to zoning and building code development/enforcement are critical if we truly want to prevent devastation from disasters.

Also, I as an adult am able to make poor decisions, resulting being ill prepared to handle emergencies and yes, perhaps I should reap what I have sown. Children however are at the mercy of the poor decision making of their parents and others (school systems, etc.), I believe at the very least, we as a society own them the benefit of the doubt and be in a position to assist them.

Just my 2 cents for what it is worth.
Pete

Well, my Illinois brother, I agree. I just hope that stupidity doesn't kill along with hurt - or you turn a lesson to learn into a Darwin Award. I know I've been stupid many times, and have always been thankful that someone somewhere had a safety net so I could learn and move on. In many of those cases I was simply not informed, not rich enough, or not incented in any way to care. It's not that I'm not agreeing in my previous posts about people being idiots... LOL

I'm just saying that complaining about it doesn't really get us anywhere. And I'm a HUGE complainer - so I speak from experience about how much it has accomplished. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Speaking of Tornado's, that Utica one last year (or was it 2 years now?) was nasty, and just shows you how even those who thought they were being safe and careful wound up dead because an old building couldn't stand up to the wind. I say that thinking about my own 125 year old "basement" <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Like many of us, it rankles me when people do not act in their own best interest.
That being said, I believe we (the imperial 'we") do have an ill defined duty to the society we are part of and take advantage of.
I'm a volunteer firefighter and EMT. When the pager goes off at 0 dark:30, in the middle of a snow storm, we respond with trained professionalism. We may find an MVA, caused by an obviously drunk driver crossing the centerline into an on-coming vehicle. That driver is treated with the same care and respect as those in the other vehicle. Treatment and transport is based on the immediate need only.
Afterword, we may grumble to ourselves about the guy who caused it, but the priority is to respond NOW.
It is the only way a modern society can function!

"There is nothing so frightening as ignorance in action."

That twister passed about 60 ft (according to the neighbor) over the top of my parents' house, they didn't have major damage, but were without power for a few days, no problem, I took them out my generator to power up the neccesseties, but we were all part of the recovery/clean-up effort. You bring up a perfect example of what I said about picking up by the bootstraps. Allthough there was a lot of talk about Federal funds, most went to the village for the fire/police/town hall, individual families got most of their help from insurance companies and friends&neighbors.

Troy

P.S. It was two years ago, and some of the rebuilding still isn't done, other areas are still counting in months and complaining about it taking too long... go figure <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />