I looked out my window before taking out this morning's trash. I didn't see any black bears or pagan biker gangs pressed flat against the walls in ambush a la Farside cartoons. When ( and if) I carry it's a carbine rifle or shotgun. Somewhere in my closet is an old SMLE. 50 rounds of handloaded 210 grain .303 and a can of military ball and I'm set for everything up to and including a Fokker DR1 ( Richtofen was downed by a single lucky .303 from an aussie machinegunner) I think my rig sent me staggering into the wall with a net outlay of $150. I even have this 1907 pattern pig sticker bayonet. Rambo has nothing on me for bringing home the bacon if some old boar charges. I haven't priced titanium Smiths, but I bet thats a whole lot of survival gear. Do yourselves a favour, look at an old mauser, Moisin ,SMLE or a scattergun. With the money you save buy some books on bears and learn.

Where I hunt there are a lot of mountain lions. Sometimes mid-morning I stop for a snack. As I'm warming up my can of kippers (yes I know, but I like them) I imagine that fishy smell slowly wafting along, drawing every large kitty within miles right to me. I bet I look pretty comical sitting there eating while craning my neck from side to side and glancing furtively behind me. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But you know, I honestly like that feeling. I think the outdoors would be a lot less fun if I didn't get it at least once in a while. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

First... you've got bears in Hawaii???
OK, now that that's out of the way, if you're contemplating having to stop a bear (or maybe a POed Samoan), while I'm a die hard fan of the .45 ACP for "normal" carry, I'd suggest you look into a .50 S&W, or a .454 Cassul. The .45 ACP is great for normal humans, but if a bear is your target, unless you're a VERY good shot, or VERY lucky, you're just gonna make it mad along with curious/hungry/whatever. Bears (and drunk/stoned/psychotic people) are pretty hard targets to either turn around or put down, and in either case, I'd suggest putting down to turning around. I don't want a mad, wounded anything coming back for some payback. If you do go with the .45 ACP, remember, if you fire one round, empty the magazine... and have a back-up (or 5) to reload with.

Troy

It's still listed on their website. The 8-3/4" barrel version weighs over 4-1/2 lbs empty! Add a scope and you might as well be packing a rifle.

I still want one though. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

It's stil out there, and going strong.

Troy

lol, no, as far as I know, there are no bears in hawaii. I'm just stationed out here. Normally I'm from North Carolina and frequent the mountains there a lot. That's where I was talking about. Sorry to confuse.

I'm sure for a lot less $ than a titanium Smith, someone could pick up "an old mauser, Moisin ,SMLE or a scattergun." And for $600-$700ish a titanium Smith would cost, one could purchase a whole lot of survival stuff and a whole lot of bear books.

But the original post asked about a handgun that was light enough to be used for backpacking and yet had enough firepower to defend against a bear. Seems like the titanium Smith fits what was asked about and it can probably be had for within $100 of what the underpowered Glock 30 can. (I say that 45 ACP is underpowered for bears - against human predators, it is very adequate). If I was hunting bears, I'd be recommending a .338 ultra mag rather than the 44. But given the parameters spelled out in the original question seems like "an old mauser, Moisin ,SMLE or a scattergun" does not fit either.

I like shooting and I like guns (but I don't like Glocks) so I view spending the money on a Smith as a good investment. There were no bears or pagan bikers outside my house this morning either. lol. But I'd still like the titanium Smith.

Actually, when it comes to bears and handguns, Burncycle had the best advice.

I have spent a little time on Maui so I had an idea of which you were more likely to run into.

I have done a bit of hiking in NC and TN on the AT or Smoky Mountains and never been bothered by bears except almost run down by one in Cades Cove one time.

They are hunted enough there that they seem to know to stay shy of humans except in the park were they cause all kinds of trouble. Of course in the park you can’t carry anyway because the Feds would maul and chaw you a lot worse than the bear would if you did.


I would probably be content with a .357 or .44 for the bears you are likely to run into in the areas I was in.

I read all the posts to this point but will reply as if I haven't... get your Glock (I prefer M1911, but whatever trips your trigger), feed it the best proven 230gr ammo it likes, and hang your food/smellables in bear bags. Worst case, shoving your Glock down a bear's mouth and busting a cap beats shoving your empty fist down his gullet. Bear attacks back East are just not all that likely and almost all the time, if they get your food, that's all they were after anyway - they've evolved into food thieves back east, for the most part.

Anything in a pistol that would be effective on a large predator is not very managable for accurate rapid-fire in a multiple human threat situation - too much recoil to recover from rapidly, even with practice. I can accurately shoot my 44 mag RedHawk pretty rapidly with full-bore 240 gr loads (NOT with 300 gr, though), and it is a very heavy handgun as these things go - one of the heaviest. But I'm a tortise with it compared to my M1911 when it comes to rapid accurate aimed fire.

A 45ACP is a great choice for self-defense but not very good for defense against a predator larger than a cougar. This issue is primarily with bullet weight, not energy. Ordinary pistol cartridges wound and kill via a totally different mechanism than fast rifle bullets. Pistols calibers above 40 caliber efficiently kill large animals all out of proportion to their energy IF they have a heavy enough bullet. But you can't get to large animal lethality with a 45ACP case - overall length restriction, case capacity, and semi-auto design factors for factory ammo defeat you. The real "magic" point with conventional caliber offerings, oddly enough, seems to be 45 caliber, but it starts at around 255gr bullet weight and 1,000fps or so and increases dramtically in lethality as the weights go up about 300 - 350gr on truly large animals. More velocity doesn't seem to add much lethality. As lethal as a heavy bullet 44 mag is, (actually a 43 caliber), it is not as lethal as a heavy bullet 45 Colt load, even when the 45 Colt is loaded to a more moderate velocity. No one can explain that; it's just an observed fact. The uber S&W hunting cartridge, BTW, is actually a 45 caliber, not the 50 S&W - the 460 S&W - althought the 50 is interesting in some respects. These cannons fit my hand very well in the stores, but they are freaking HUGE - I'd rather carry a levergun carbine in 44, 45, or 45-70.

Trying to compare large animal lethality of fast-moving miedium caliber rifle bullets to relatively large caliber heavy bullets is not a logical exercise. You have to refer to ACTUAL results, and then hypothesize to fit reality. Fact is, heavyweight 45 bullets at moderate velocity easily out-penetrate conventional expanding rifle bullets in large game - a well - established fact. And non-expanding rifle bullets below somewhere around 33 - 35 cal usually don't kill as quickly as the large caliber heavy weight pistols bullets (Don't take that as gospel - interpolation was required on my part to work that out).

Having written the above, bears aren't deer or antelope, which I have always found to be extremely predictable to reactions to bullets. In my experiences, black bears USUALLY react fairly predictably to a hit, but every once in a while... a man I knew described his personal horror story to me first hand a year after his recovery from a pretty horrible mauling by a medium-sized blackie that he had shot two arrows through (through!) and then 2 minutes later shot thru-and-thru 5 times with a 454 at point-blank range. The bear died, of course, but much mayhem was committed first. That sort of thing is quite rare with black bears, though.

Grizzly bears seem to be different (Note that my sample size here is more limited; I have only shot 2 and witnessed the taking of several others, but less than 10 total). Regardless of size, they seem to be a bit tougher than blackies and they seem to have a little higher percentage of insanely hard to put down individuals. Every single grizz I took/saw taken reacted differently to lethal hits, so my primary point is that I am not comfortable generalizing about grizzly reactions when shot. One of the bears I saw shot was a fairly large lowland interior animal around 600 - 700 lbs, and it was put down rather efficiently at too-close-for-comfort range with a 44 mag pistol. It did not flip over in its tracks; it kept coming (slowly), but the second shot at 20 feet stopped it and it expired right there in short order. My personal nightmare involves a SMALL grizzly (300 lbs) that I absolutely hammered with a medium caliber rifle - repeatedly. The necropsy revealed that it should have flipped over dead with each shot, but it kept on coming... rapidly. It was closer to me than 20 feet when it finally gave up the ghost - BUT you don't have those in your part of the country.

Get your Glock, stoke it well, and respect the bears who were here before us - best observed from a distance requiring binoculars. They're much cuter at that range...

HTH,

Tom

Well Tom, I have read all the posts and they make a lot of sense but the fact remains that no one firearm is going to suffice for all situations, so...........consider this. Most likely anyone headed to the boonies will not be alone so I would suggest one person sling a BAR .30-06 over their shoulder to cover all bad bears and people and designate the second person to carry an over/under .22/.410 or .223/.410 or something similar for keeping the meat pot full over the campfire. That's the best I can offer. A lot to carry but effective for most situations. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Boone