I don't know why this thought popped into my head, but I've heard various "Riflemen" discussing the problem of recoil with high caliber rifles in the past, and being a midwesterner who grew up "in the sticks", I cut my teeth on a shotgun. As a result, I just don't understand worrying about the difference in recoil between say, a .223 and a .308, and the only rifle I've ever fired that I thought that the recoil was significant in was a .458 magnum bolt action. If a body's used to carrying and firing a 12 guage on a good day of flushing birds, is the recoil on anything less than a .300 Weatherby even an issue? And if it's not, then wouldn't it make sense to begin rifle training with trapshooting???
Weight of ammunition follows the same line of thought, if you're used to carrying a bag of shotgun shells, the weight difference between large caliber and small caliber becomes insignificant, doesn't it???
Well, we've got some shooters out there, any thoughts???

Troy

Does a .223 have a recoil? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> If it does, I never noticed it when using my M4.

As to the shotgun question, the last range qualification that I went to, one of my co-workers (5-2, 110 lbs) was proned out at the 50-yard line shooting slugs at 8-inch disks. She is in VERY good shape, but is still small. She did not complain about recoil. She did complain when the rangemaster said that it was time to stop shooting and pack it up!

When I was a little boy, I thought that the recoil of a 3" magnum 20 guage was pretty stout. But I was all of 5' nothin' and 80 pounds. Since then I've grown to notice that recoil is all in your head--until I first shot my A-Bolt in 30-06 with the stock pad. 6 rounds and I thought that Mike Tyson had been pounding me in the shoulder. The huge purple bruise I had was not my imagination, I can assure you. I then put a Decelerator on it and now it's a pussycat. The lesson? It's all in the stock design.

Regards, Vince

On the FAL, I just turn the gas setting down...

I do agree with your observations, though!

I never needed one either, but last year I bought a clay thrower and we set it up and after going through a couple boxes or target load even in s 20 gauge I started to get a bit sore so I put one on after that.
The biodegradeable clays are getting hard to find, we bought the last couple boxes that Cabela's in Wheeling WV, anyone know a good source?

Too many variables. And *most* shotgunning is done in the most recoil-friendly position - standing - and even then, there is a world of difference between a heavy pump or auto with recoil pad and something like my old hard-butt less-than-5 lbs 20ga single shot (first gun, and I was a little guy when I got it - but I killed truckloads of rabbits with it).

Somewhere out there is a rifle that will get your attention, and you may be surprised what it is. I can bench any of my 30-06s with 150gr or 180gr heavy reloads for essentially all day; I can run thru all the 338 I care to pay for powder and bullets; I can run thru 50 rounds of monster killer reloads at the bench in my son's 45-70 Guide Gun, etc etc.and never be bothered by recoil. 300 W'by is fun; 375H&H is not (at the bench), but it doesn't "bother" me. But, as I've written before, I've an extremely accurate 125gr load for 30-06 that hurts to shoot, period. We've tried it in a number of rifles, and it's like an ice pick driven into your shoulder. I can't tell you why, but it hurts.

I remember a 358 Marlin levergun that was NOT pleasant to shoot - that was mostly a poor stock design for the caliber. I remember a 375H&H No1 Ruger that was never fun at the bench, but a superb field rifle. We have a 260 Rem M7 Youth that is no problem with 125 - 129gr reloads, but gets a little less fun after 40 rounds of 140gr reloads at the bench (it's a pussycat off the bench) - not painful, but it tenderizes me a little. But that 125gr -06 reload freakin' hurts.

I have noticed that there is *some* correlation between size and how hard something smacks you - a very imperfect correlation, but enough to comment on: Something that is a "bad" recoiler (sharp, rather than heavy) seems to have a more adverse effect on a heavier person than a lighter person. YMMV; that's just my data set.

As for weight of ammo... carrying a shotgun all day in the field is not the same as carrying a backpack and rifle in the mountains for a couple of weeks. It's not so much the weight of the ammo as it is space - or the trade-off in food and clothing items or fuel. Again, YMMV - that's my opinion. Shotgun ammo is both bulky and heavy, so there is certainly room for discussion, but I think of shotgun ammo in quantity as a day trip kind of thing rather than a long-term thing. The most 12 ga ammo I've carried for more than 3 days has been about 15rds, mostly slugs and some buckshot - not hunting, obviously.

Good questions!

Regards,

Tom

Our club buys them from a place whose name sounds like "Beikirk". I'll try to find out the correct spelling and additional information for you.

It is spelled Beikirch, and their phone # is 800-622-3006.