Well said Chris. I like to think of myself as open minded, but when it comes to organized religion I'm not, especially when they impose their beleifs on others. Missionaries, as I understand it, go to remote areas and tell indiginous people that there culture and spiritual beleifs, which have existed for hundereds of years or more, are foolish, and they must accept Jesus Christ as their savior or suffer eternal damnation. As a result hundreds of unique cultures around the world are destroyed. Needless to say I find this disgusting. And telling people that anyone who doesn't worship Jesus Christ, and in the way that the church mandates, goes to hell is not only ridiculous and cruel, but is contrary to the way the Jesus himself lived.

Josh, you probably mean well, and think what you're doing is good, but what you do makes me sick.

Well, how about you believe that the "Krispy Kreme Diet" is the way to loose weight. Or if you believe that playing hopscotch in the middle of a busy freeway is the secret to a long and healthy life. Or if you believe that you don't need to prepare for emergencies because the government can take care of you.

To me (and to many others), Jesus is a fact, Heaven is a fact, and Hell is a fact. If I teach somebody about Jesus, and they listen, I have just done them the biggest favor of their lives. So a person who claims to follows Jesus, but does not TRY to persuede others does not really believe in the teaching of Jesus. To me, people who do not know Jesus are wrong, but I would never ridicule or belittle them. I can respect the beliefs of others and still believe that they are wrong.

But you are right, in a certain sense, about organized religion. Often time, religion gets in the way of finding God. Much evil has been done in the name of God through organized religion, but this is the fault of the people in leadership at the church.

So, in the end, this is just the way that we are. Try not to get to mad.

*EDIT*
Upon further reflection, I realize that I may not have been clear. I am not trying to convince anybody on these forums (this is not the time or place for it). But I am trying to promote a little understanding here. To a Chrisitan, faith is not a "Pepsi vs. Coke" debate, it is a "Pepsi vs. Hemlock" debate. So please forgive us for being a little inflexible. We are all friends here.

PS: Sorry for straying too off-topic.

I promised myself that I was gonna stay out of this one but...
...so, what you're saying is that someone that lives a good life, treats their fellow man as they would be treated, helps the less fortunate when they can, and uses the ten commandments as a life-guide, BUT, doesn't try to convert all the big, bad heathens out there is undeserving of a happy afterlife???
If that's what you're saying, save yourself some time... don't come knocking on my door, thank you.

Troy

P.S. What ever happened to "Live and let live"???

OK. This is straying too far off-topic. So this is my last post on the subject -- promise.

All people sin and do wrong -- so NOBOY deserves heaven. God threw down a rescue ladder -- Jesus.

Christians are supposed to love their fellow man. If I do not tell you about Jesus and you go to Hell, that is not very loving, is it.


So, if you see a car wreck and people are lying bleeding on the side of the road, "live and let live" and keep on driving? Of course not. This is the same thing.

And, as I said: this is too far off topic. Feel free to send me a private message or e-mail to discuss further. This is not the place.

**EDIT**
I would also like to point out that I have never used this forum in order to spread my beliefs. It is much better to win over people by being a good example than by being an "in-your-face jerk." I will defend by beliefs if attacked or questioned, but I tend to be a very low-key kind of guy.

PS: I think that people who are too "in-your-face" are jerks too.

He came here looking for some half decent books not political/religous debates/essays. In my view I'd get John 'Lofty' Wiseman's SAS survival handbook in mini version mine goes every where I go when I'm more than 300metres from home.