Im Josh, and Im interested in being a missionary. I was curious where I could find info (preferably a book) on survival, not in the sense of in a emergency situation, but in the sense of surviving in the wilderness with the intention to be there. I would like to know natural growing edible plants, skills for wilderness living, and anything else in this genre. If it is neccesary to be region specific, I am looking for north and south american area info. If someone could point me in the right direction for research, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Wow.

You realise that there are almost as many books on survival as there are books on cooking or weight loss? Where were you thinking, and what is your existing knowledge level?

Hey man. That's awesome your thinking about the mission field in South America. Me and my buddy were thinking about doing the same thing and possibly taking steps to start that this summer. I'd like to talk to you about it. Maybe we can trade survival ideas. The Amazon is no joke to say the least. Countless lives have been lost, etc etc. My AIM name is StealthBlueNinja. Yahoo is spellfiresilver - msn/email = moosemekanik@lycos.com

Hit me up bro.

yeah... but i just kind of wanted some direction on something that was about living in the wilderness as opposed to being stranded in an emergency situation. I dont have much knowledge at all, but I would like to learn about edible plants, trapping, natural medicine, and whatever else would be beneficial for living in the wild. As for location, southeastern usa (or anywhere else in the us), canada, and central america.

Josh, Please don't take my words wrong. Missionary work is always seen as GIVING people something. The cultural reality is we take things away and don't always replace them in kind. You might recall Harrison Ford trying to bring ice to the Amazon. Rather than some tome on birdtraps, why not take a few general classes in anthropology so you understand the dymanics of your endeavor. Your best instructors will be the people. It seems to me a Yanamamo would be a better missionary for your conversion to survival expert. At least they would have been, many first nations are being destroyed by mining, timber, cattle and farming ( including narcotics) interests faster than a burning rainforest.

There are two that I know of......I have the first. It is called Naked into the Wilderness. The second book is the 'other half'. It may be NITW 2 or something like that. From the first book I have learned lot. They have learned by trial and error. It is a great place to get info.

You might also want to check out the foxfire series of books. This is all about old Appalachian Mountain homesteading and such, really good info for most of central North America. I found Foxfire one, two and three especially captivating and informative.

In a similar vein, you might want to look into the Buckskinning community. They are a group of epople who do events based on life in the eary 1800s. All of their items have to be authentic, including hand sewn clothes, and period correct cooking. Although they drive to the events, and are allowed ot have ice on hand, you can get a lot of "live off the land" information for how they do things. One frind of mine even brain tans his own deerskin to make into clothing.

Although I cannot point you to a particular text, perhaps a book on how the area natives lived prior to Europeans arriving. Or, perhaps a book about how the early Europeans survived and settled in the area without all of the nifty gear that we have now.

You might also find some answers in a living history museum.

I hope that you will be able to post some updates once you arrive and see things for yourself.

I definetly agree that there is not enough giving. My interest in trapping and such is really more for in the Us and Canada, wanting to spend time as a contemporary mountain man. As for in Central America, specifically Guatemala, I would definitely love to go and live there and meet people i could learn from while evangelizing and discipling. Thanks for the criticism.

I have the first two, but just got them so i haven't read them yet

You might also check out "Backwoods" magazine. It is a periodical that follows the same line as the foxfire series, with a twist or two.

I consider Jeff Randall at http://www.jungletraining.com/forums/ as the SA/Amazon survival guru.

Here are some area specific books. http://jungletraining.com/careers.htm?

Two things I might add; first, bribes are a way of life down there, and second, missionary = CIA.

Look for a copy of Outdoor Survival Skills by Larry Dean Olsen. Originally published in 1967, the book has been through six editions since. The most recent publication is copyrighted 1997. The ISBN is 1-55652-323-8. Amazon.com shows it available.

Mr. Olsen teaches survival without manufactured items, and most (if not all) his information is useful anywhere.

Good luck with your mission! And remember, if you give a man a fish he'll eat today. If you teach him to fish, he'll lay around in a boat all day and drink beer.

forgive me for being "obtuse", but i am slightly confused on the "missionary= cia" part. Can you explain?

The locals are suspicious of your motives and may think you are an agent put there to spy or manipulate.

gotcha... that would not be good. I will make sure that when the time comes I make precautions against a possible confusion.

I went to Guatamala on an archaeological expedition. The descendants of the Maya have suffered great persecution. The culture is a catholic veneer with a deep mayan base. I was wandering about and encountered a small guerilla unit who decided I was CIA. The overlayered Che Guevara t shirt a GF forced on me, and a obviously incompetant mastery of spanish saved my neck, as mere possession could result in a Police bullet in the back of your head. Again, if you want to show true Christian charity, learn about the people before showing up like a repackaged conquistadore.

That may not be posible, because the idea might be already in their head before you arrive.

Outstanding post, Chris - that is a very accurate, albeit unpopular assessment...

Ah Yes! Just what the great unwashed need: another clueless Yankee to become become a parasite on an already poor village.
It appears you have nothing to contribute but self-rightous zeal. Do them and yourself a big favor. Stay home until skills and maturity develop, then you may have something to offer.

"There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action"

Whuff!

Well, now. THAT was a bit contentious! <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I think we all could have something to offer another culture - even if it's just a picture of who we are and how we are different.

I will admit that I'm uncomfortable about the idea of making a trip to the hinterlands to "educate" the indigenes on the proper way to worship.

If more people would channel their missionary zeal into efforts to assist peoples in bettering their physical existence, perhaps the religious issues could then resolve themselves.

To me, Christianity isn't about converting others to my ways of thinking - it's about helping others get their lives to the point where they have the time and the information to sit and think for themselves about their relationship with a higher power.

And this has now gone WAY off track.

Just one piece of advice - don't go down there and fart in their church. They are as fervent about their relationship with their God as you are about yours. And remember, you are both right.

Religion and politics, now where was that new forum? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have friends who are missionaries in Nicaragua. They went, and then joined, with as established group which had set up shop in a particular place where people come for medical care, education and the like. So I suppose that's one way around the suspicion-of-motive attitude. Group A comes to Group B of their own volition to a place that has been given tacit approval by the indigenous folk. Where there's a will, there's a way.

This is starting to sound more and more like my Baghdad assignmnet.

As for your question, Jeff Randall's site might have some information, you could also sign up for his courses. Backwoods magazine is ok, but is geared heavily toward off the grid living and subsistence, not necessarily identifying wild flora. Try googling some of the more famous authors, (Wiseman, Kochanski, etc.), check out plainsman's cabin. They often have a great deal of cross links that you can get lost in for weeks.

Don't worry about all the name callers on this forum, good luck to you!

Farmer- all though I like Larry Dean Olson's book (the first survival book I read after Tunnel in the Sky,) it's about the high and dry, and has little to do with survival in the SA jungle.

Wow!!! Chris, I thought we were supposed to avoid the political.

As their have been some that have brought up the missionary issue, let me make my current intentions clear. right know I am in school and really do not see myself going to the foreign field for a while because of school and other ministires in the states. During a trip I made to Guatemala with a group, I made some contacts who I would probably be involved with if I went to Guatemala. If i went to another country, I would still find a group to join with, because most of the time a lone wolf is a dead wolf. I am baptist, and when I went and my friends there told me of pagan rituals practiced in those churches, I felt strongly the need to be involved and seek to extinguish those practices. When I go, I want to be involved with the rural churches, and be apart of their ministries. I saw so many people who's zealous nature made me ashamed. I don't want any special attention, but to live with the people, work with the people, and share the love of God with people who don't know it and rejoice in the grace of God with fellow brothers and sisters. I would like to be an evangelist, like a wandering preacher. I want also to learn some skill before I go so that I would be of use in a community to the people and not just a leech. I am unabashed in the declaration of salvation is only by grace in faith through Christ. Repentance for sins and belief in the life, death, and resurrection of Christ for those sins are neccesary for eternal life. Christ is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father but through Him.

Ok you've made your intentions clear, now lets make some of the advice clear. (at the risk of getting the thread locked)
I fully respect your right to beleive and practice your religion as you feel fit as do I fully respect it is their right to practce theirs.
I dont respect the fact that you beleive that you have any right to extinguish anybody elses religious practices. It is this type of action that start wars.
If you choose to do missionary work, read what Chris said about learning about the people before you go and respect their way of life and their religion. Then help them in a practical way.

No offense, but did anyone from there invite you to evangelise and discipline? Makes the people who are about to inflict yourself on sound like wayward children.

Missionary, mercenary. I know which one I'm more likely to respect- the one who at least admits that what he is doing is for money.

I think you may have misunderstood... one of the roles a missionary plays is as an evangelist and i didn't mean "discipline" in the sense of punishment for something, but "disciple", which has the same root but in this case means to educate new Christians in biblical matters and following Christ. Its a guidance thing. On a side note, I don't think I completely understand your statement on mercenary vs. missionary. Could you explain what you meant to me?

Dont take this as an insult, but if you cannot understand that comment, you should not be guiding anybody yet.
From your comments, you appear to live in a black and white world with no grey areas, or have lived a sheltered life.
Missionary work maybe a dangerous choice for you until you have a bit more experience.

Yep. Olsen's book is about living off the land in the American West. There are, however, many techniques (as well as the mind set) that are applicable in any ecology.

It's the only book I've found so far (and I did not do an exhaustive search) that starts with the basics - your brain and fingers - and helps you think about how to use the materials provided in nature to survive.

Just as learning to be a neurosurgeon isn't taught in a single text, survival must be learned from a variety of sources. Olsen's book is a "Survival 101" kind of book.

If you haven't seen it, perhaps you should rent the movie "The Mission" with Robert De Niro and Jeremy Irons. This may help your understanding about how mission work is viewed by many, especially those being "ministered" to.

The first, and most important step, in mission work anywhere is demonstrating a genuine concern for the welfare of the people you are going to help. In order for them to accept your words, they must first believe that your intentions are for their benefit. This requires much labor on your part long before you can ever utter any spiritual advice or counsel. In fact, your entire mission may never involve classic evangelism or ministry. Many such missionarys go to far away places and do nothing but rebuild homes, or help with the irrigation, or provide medical aid, or distribute food. They have no message to proclaim, other than to simply help those less fortunate. This is the most you should expect of your mission, and the best thing you can do is to keep you mouth shut about spiritual matters until long after you have been accepted by the people you are there to help. Remember, "The greatest of these is Charity".

Once you have demonstrated by your deeds and actions that you have something meaningful to offer, then, if the opportunity presents itself, you may gently and gradually enter into religious dialogue. Your initial focus of any discussion should be on all the beneficial similarities your two faiths share. By focusing on the positives this way, you will allow them to become more receptive to your views. Since religion is a faith based experience, you should avoid entering into arguments about "facts". Your facts are not going to match their facts most of the time, at least not at first, but by finding commonalities, you can then get their impressions and opinions on different aspects of their faith, compare them to yours, and start exploring the origins of those views together.

Remember that most missionaries never make it to the discussion phase, so don't push to get there. If God is sending you to these people, it is because they need your help on many levels, and for them, spirituality is at the very bottom of the heap. Becoming their friend first will determine whether or not you have any success at fulfilling your mission. The rest is gravy.

I think you'll find this approach applies to all evangelizing you will ever do in life, whether at home, across the country, or in a far away land. It is also the best model of how Jesus really functioned while he was here.

So far in this verrrry interesting post, I believe Benjamin, in his message, has come closest to what I wish I would have said. I would like to add: you may well be amazed at how very much you would learn yourself and not neccesarily only from the people to whom you are ministering, but from the experience in toto, in this particular style of exchange. cm.

Well this horse has been beat to death!! I thought I would just add that there are special schools set up to train missionaries in these types of skills as well as many others. You might want to investigate what is available out there, no need to reinvent the wheel.

I may have also misunderstood your plans. From what you've said in this latest, you are going down to show people what you consider to be the way at thier invitation becuase someone else has already converted them. It's possible they converted themselves, even.

I had origionally understood you were looking to preach to the "dirty heathens". Or maybe just the "poor lost souls". In either case, preach at them until they convert and repent and all that other stuff that people do when they've been beaten down. Sorry, I'm a "dirty heathen", and I'm not terribly fond people who get it into thier head to go on a great Crusade, even they aren't bringing fire and sword with them this time.

As for missionaries vs mercs, mercs do things for the money, missionaries do the same things becuase "god wills it".

Benjammin that was very well said.

Excellent post, Benjammin.

Well said Chris. I like to think of myself as open minded, but when it comes to organized religion I'm not, especially when they impose their beleifs on others. Missionaries, as I understand it, go to remote areas and tell indiginous people that there culture and spiritual beleifs, which have existed for hundereds of years or more, are foolish, and they must accept Jesus Christ as their savior or suffer eternal damnation. As a result hundreds of unique cultures around the world are destroyed. Needless to say I find this disgusting. And telling people that anyone who doesn't worship Jesus Christ, and in the way that the church mandates, goes to hell is not only ridiculous and cruel, but is contrary to the way the Jesus himself lived.

Josh, you probably mean well, and think what you're doing is good, but what you do makes me sick.

Well, how about you believe that the "Krispy Kreme Diet" is the way to loose weight. Or if you believe that playing hopscotch in the middle of a busy freeway is the secret to a long and healthy life. Or if you believe that you don't need to prepare for emergencies because the government can take care of you.

To me (and to many others), Jesus is a fact, Heaven is a fact, and Hell is a fact. If I teach somebody about Jesus, and they listen, I have just done them the biggest favor of their lives. So a person who claims to follows Jesus, but does not TRY to persuede others does not really believe in the teaching of Jesus. To me, people who do not know Jesus are wrong, but I would never ridicule or belittle them. I can respect the beliefs of others and still believe that they are wrong.

But you are right, in a certain sense, about organized religion. Often time, religion gets in the way of finding God. Much evil has been done in the name of God through organized religion, but this is the fault of the people in leadership at the church.

So, in the end, this is just the way that we are. Try not to get to mad.

*EDIT*
Upon further reflection, I realize that I may not have been clear. I am not trying to convince anybody on these forums (this is not the time or place for it). But I am trying to promote a little understanding here. To a Chrisitan, faith is not a "Pepsi vs. Coke" debate, it is a "Pepsi vs. Hemlock" debate. So please forgive us for being a little inflexible. We are all friends here.

PS: Sorry for straying too off-topic.

I promised myself that I was gonna stay out of this one but...
...so, what you're saying is that someone that lives a good life, treats their fellow man as they would be treated, helps the less fortunate when they can, and uses the ten commandments as a life-guide, BUT, doesn't try to convert all the big, bad heathens out there is undeserving of a happy afterlife???
If that's what you're saying, save yourself some time... don't come knocking on my door, thank you.

Troy

P.S. What ever happened to "Live and let live"???

OK. This is straying too far off-topic. So this is my last post on the subject -- promise.

All people sin and do wrong -- so NOBOY deserves heaven. God threw down a rescue ladder -- Jesus.

Christians are supposed to love their fellow man. If I do not tell you about Jesus and you go to Hell, that is not very loving, is it.


So, if you see a car wreck and people are lying bleeding on the side of the road, "live and let live" and keep on driving? Of course not. This is the same thing.

And, as I said: this is too far off topic. Feel free to send me a private message or e-mail to discuss further. This is not the place.

**EDIT**
I would also like to point out that I have never used this forum in order to spread my beliefs. It is much better to win over people by being a good example than by being an "in-your-face jerk." I will defend by beliefs if attacked or questioned, but I tend to be a very low-key kind of guy.

PS: I think that people who are too "in-your-face" are jerks too.

He came here looking for some half decent books not political/religous debates/essays. In my view I'd get John 'Lofty' Wiseman's SAS survival handbook in mini version mine goes every where I go when I'm more than 300metres from home.