As an adjunct question to my urban/suburban choices post, I was thinking about how to survive a specific weather/climate scenario.

You get stuck in your vehicle due to a winter storm. You are either too far from or unable to trek to safety. Because the snow is over the tailpipe, you can't run the car for heat. What are the best things to have with you? Here are my thoughts. What am I missing?

Extra socks
Hat/balaclava
Gloves
Cold weather sleeping bag
Candles (and matches)
High calorie energy food
Water

As far as additional heat sources, would something like sterno give off enough heat without giving off toxic fumes?

Sterno is about as safe as you can get but it will still deplete oxygen and does produce carbon dioxide (not carbon monoxide), so you still have to take some care in it's use. Aside from the obvious (cell phone, 2W radio, etc) I would add something to signal with. I have a large glass mirror, a flashlight, and a bright orange plastic sheet. A shovel is a necessity, and if you have access to wood a saw and an axe would be invaluable. Something to boil water and melt snow in would likely be necessary.

I keep two footlockers full of supplies and gear in the cap-covered bed of my truck. I figure I could hold out at least a week if I had to.

Regards, Vince

Edited to add: the orange plastic sheet is especially handy if you drive a white vehicle <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Obvious, I guess, but if you have a choice, choose a large vehicle to get stuck in.

It would really suck to be stranded in my current (and only) vehicle... small, two seat, no back seat. No place to stretch out, seats do not fully recline. Forget for a moment that there's no place to store supplies, I wouldn't want to be trapped in this thing for more than a few hours due to comfort considerations.

An SUV or van would be good, I think. A motorhome... wow. If you're in a motorhome, are you really stranded? Or just not moving for a while? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Or you can try this:
A Slovak man trapped in his car under an avalanche freed himself by drinking 60 bottles of beer and urinating on the snow to melt it.

Rescue teams found Richard Kral drunk and staggering along a mountain path four days after his Audi car was buried in the Slovak Tatra mountains.

He told them that after the avalanche, he had opened his car window and tried to dig his way out.

But as he dug with his hands, he realised the snow would fill his car before he managed to break through.

He had 60 half-litre bottles of beer in his car as he was going on holiday, and after cracking one open to think about the problem he realised he could urinate on the snow to melt it, local media reported.

He said: "I was scooping the snow from above me and packing it down below the window, and then I peed on it to melt it. It was hard and now my kidneys and liver hurt. But I'm glad the beer I took on holiday turned out to be useful and I managed to get out of there."

Parts of Europe have this week been hit by the heaviest snowfalls since 1941, with some places registering more than ten feet of snow in 24 hours.

Uh...

I believe it, that's not the problem.

The only added benefit of actually consuming the beer was heating it up. You could do that by just putting several bottles inside your coat. Drink one or two, maybe, assuming no other food calorie sources (ya gotta make the heat somehow), but it certainly wasn't necessary to actually drink all of it.

Here is an idea for a heater from Field & Stream
Toilet Paper Heater <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I know that snow differs in water content, but generally speaking, I read that 12" of snow equals about 1" of rain.

Sooooo..... if you had to tunnel out of your car window to get to the road, couldn't you scoop it into the back (or lowest part) of the car and pack it down? That should reduce the volume by 10 or so.

I've wondered about this since I moved up to snow country from CA.

Any thoughts?

Sue

Sounds like the MGB I had in college. It had a tiny little cockpit but it was great in the snow because it was so light.

Vince

Interesting question. I've never tried it, beyond making snowmen and snowballs.

But I remember reading about how forces are distributed in... cornflakes of all things. Apparently, there is no practical limit to how high you can pile cornflakes without crushing them, because the forces are distributed throughout the pile. I wonder if snow (not all snow is the same, so this may not apply to every situation) acts like the cornflakes? Yeah, you can compress it some, but the force required to change the volume enough to matter might be pretty high.

Hey... Mythbusters... you listening? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'd leave the car and build an igloo. It is better insulated than your car. If well made you can even light a fire inside.

This, provided that you don't go out, farther than the nearest supermarket with just a t-shirt on you,

Under severe weather conditions you should plan to be prepared for the unexpected. If nothing happens, good for you, but if it does, you will not regret those extra boxes in the trunk.

Keep there a couple good blankets, a small petrol stove and minimal cooking gear, high energy food like chocolate will keep you alive and warm for a good while.

A small shovel and a knife should already be there, eh?

D.

I think candles will see you through. I was in the Air Force in North Dakota back in the 70s, and we had a winter kit similar to yours. The theory was that you'd stay in the car, light a candle with a leeward window open a crack (the wind blows from the same direction all winter in North Dakota), and cover up in the blankets/sleeping bag/whatever and wait for the snowplows to bury you further. No! No! I mean come by and discover you.

Getting out of a stuck car in a blizzard was strongly discouraged. While I was in North Dakota, someone died every winter trying to walk somewhere in a blizzard that they'd walked all their lives (and probably in other blizzards). Leave the flashers on, light a candle, curse the darkness, and cover up.

Watch this on the discovery channel. Times in Central time. They shouldn't be alive!

DSC Thursday, December 15 6:00 PM Lost in the Snow
DSC Friday, December 16 8:00 PM Lost in the Snow
DSC Saturday, December 17 12:00 AM Lost in the Snow

Snopes discusses that story here. It seems unlikely to be true.

I would first ask "WHY are you stuck?"

Maybe you don't have TV or a radio? Do you ignore winter storm warnings?

Last year a woman died in her car about 1 mile from where I live. In the mean time, we had hunkered down and bought more than enough food and wine ... er ... dog food several days before it hit.

She didn't have to die. She CHOSE to go out.

DBA, what part of Colorado are you in?

Here in Vermont, if you break down on the Interstate in the middle of the night, it might be an hour before you see another person. A few hours before someone stops. It happened to me, my universal belt snapped on I89 between Burlington and Montpelier- those are the largest population center and the state capital, respectively.

I don't imagine it's any different on rural interstates anywhere in the US. Now put it on a back road with a tenth the traffic. It doesn't have to be a mechanical failure, a little bit of ice can do it. I've had to dig my car out more than few times due to hidden ice, it can happen to anyone.

As for the urban myth in question, it was an avalanche. You can't really avoid a slide, they happen. And all the good places in the mountains are potential places where they will happen. If you live in mountains, you probably need to just accept that they could happen.

I live on the outsides of Colorado Springs. It is understood that you have to take certain precautions, however this woman died going for cigarettes.

My point is not that problems never occur, but that being caught in a winter storm could mean you're not taking weather reports very seriously.

Is it safe to assume that the myth you would want them to bust is the cornflakes myth and not the 60 bottles of beer myth? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You could add:

old cell phone and charger cord --for 911 calls
toe warmer/ hand warmer chemical heat packs
Car tools -- fire extinguisher/ jumper cables, etc.
coffee can for melting water
kleenex



TRO

I take a tent and sleeping bag along when I drive through areas of potential high snowfall. I had 2 trips last winter that I made ok but was sure glad I was carrying some backup shelter and warmth!
Don't forget a shovel, tire chains and some road flares are good to have for marking or firestarting if necessary.

I checked out a book called Winter Wise by Montague Alford. Here are some notes from the vehicle guide section of the book. I don't have a car but I thought I would share it with you and see what you think:

- Do not carry your sleeping bag in the trunk, where the vehicle is coldest and where you could not get at it if the trunk were damaged and jammed.

- Any non-running vehicle is a heat sink and offers no insulation from the cold. So you have to build a snow shelter like a snow trench or a snowhouse (adequately ventilated to prevent carbon monoxide poisoning... learn and practice how to build one) or have a tent...

- You need an Insulated pad under your sleeping bag to prevent heat loss through conduction. Not a self-infating pad but one or two closed-cell mats. A foam pad made of evazote. Vehicle seats and cushions offer good insulating pads for the inside of a snow shelter.

- In an emergency, black pepper is an effective radiator sealant.

Some items from the vehicle kit list:

- Axe and file
- Flashlight (headlamp!) equipped with alkaline batteries because they perform better at low temperatures.
- Tarpaulin (of sufficient size to cover engine hood and reach to ground on both sides)
- Spare fan belt
- Spare fuses
- Large orange garbage bags (you can fill one with snow and use as a door to a snow shelter)
- Thermos kept topped-up with a hot sweet drink
- First aid kit which should include a cushioned mask such as an Airway SealEasy, used for sanitary purposes when administering CPR
- Extension cord (electrical, heavy duty)
- Emergency heater (gasoline camp stove or the alternative already mentionned: roll of toilet paper soaked with kerosene or diesel inside a coffee can
- Ban ice (methyl-hydrate)
- Anti-freeze
- Window scraper
- At least two 4x4x12 inches wooden blocks.
- your PSK (the author carries a homemade candle stove with two nested cans and tea candles to melt snow and carries a swizzle-stick to stir snow and a plastic drinking tube to drink warm liquids from the candle stove without the need to remove the container from the stove base and also can serve as a fire coaxer (the tube lets you use a safer technique than placing your nose, and your parka ruff, within a few centimetres of glowing coals.)

etc. (I left out other more obvious items)

Good luck
François

Let me know... I'll ask them when I see them next month here.

http://www.tam4.com/guests.htm

In most stuck in snow situations I can think of, help shouldn't take long to get there -- stay with the vehicle! There might be situations though...
The "I shouldn't be alive" episode described them going so far off the track (closed highway I think) that nobody passes by with any regularity. In that case, you should probably stay with the vehicle as long as you could...

Couple of things you might consider....
-Knowledge of your environment. Evergreens nearby? Useful for insulation and more!
-Ice scraper. Goes without saying of course <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
-Road flares. They can be used for signalling, and firestarting. Sometimes it's too darn cold and/or windy to be fiddling with magnesium shavings and ferro rods!
-A decent knife (big enough to baton and do other fun things with)
-High visibility signalling devices - VS-17 panels, glint tape, food coloring, whatever. If you're way off the beaten path, it may help attract the eye against the snow.
-2 way radios/walkie talkies - These aren't that expensive these days... you can find a set from $18, and for $50 you can get a set that picks up NOAA weather and has all kinds of nifty features. You shouldn't leave the vehicle, but if you do and have a passenger, it's good to be able to keep in touch in case you get seperated.
-Spare batteries for flashlights and radio
-DUCT TAPE! A whole roll. You can make snowshoes if you use a little ingenuity and some evergreen branches or other field expedient things. You can use it to tape up plastic and block the wind coming through a broken window or something, etc. Uses are everywhere, as always.
-Metal cup suitable for melting snow for drinking water
-Hand/Foot warmers, chemical. These can last 8-12 hours, depending on the brand. They're cheap, and you can buy a bunch.... expose them to air and they warm up. You can use them in enclosed spaces, and while you're asleep, unlike some open fire. Sure beats frostbite if you've got to leave the vehicle.
-Newspaper. One of chris's idea, lots of uses. Splints, insulation, etc
-Cooler - You can keep smaller things like batteries in there, and they won't freeze as quickly. Maybe even throw in a foot warmer described above, and things will stay toasty....
-Medical gear, including space blanket, splints, chapstick, etc

Others have already mentioned things like 2 x 4's and shovels and so on.

You also might consider...
CB Radio. Hooked directly to the battery, you can run it even if the car is shut off. Doesn't require a licence.
Winch - Helps ya get unstuck, if you've got a friendly tree or something similar nearby
Tow cables/chain/rope

If you can manage, keep some fencing material in the vehicle, coiled or flat. Sometimes all you've done is simply slid off the road and you're just a foot or two off the pavement. Lay the wire down in the direction you need to go (right up against the drive wheels) and go as slow as you can. The fencing digs into the snow, the tires grip the fencing.

I keep some 2x4 welded wire fencing rolled up with duct tape, but a friend swears by chain link.

Sue

Tire-wide strips of carpet will get the job done too.

Troy

I've tried car floor mats, but they just zinged right out from under. Maybe longer pieces are the key.

Sue

Exactly, less than about four feet, and you might as well forget it.

Troy

Also take a look at this thread :

Being winter is upon us....

Frankie

Keeping a tow strap handy is something I do now. It makes you feel really stupid to be just off the road, and the truck that stops to help doesn't have a chain or strap, just a helpless shrug and one of those "another dumb woman" looks. (I hate, hate, HATE that look!)

Sue

So we have the stereo type of giving the "another dumb woman look" and then we have the stereo type of " this person will give me another dumb woman look".
Do these two cancel each other out? <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just adding to my last post because it sounded like I was having a shot at Susan.
I dont have "another dumb woman look" , but I do have "another dumb person look"
There are a lot of dumb males out there too.

If you have to leave your car to build a snow shelter, leave a note in the car telling road crews and/or EMS personnel that you did so and are still nearby. That way they know to look for you. In that case, I'd try and make your shelter very noticeable, e.g.: colored tape to tie around the trees nearby, a bright plastic flag stuck in the ground by the shelter, aluminum pie pans that will swing in the breeze, etc. Anything that will draw attention to your shelter. Hell, if you're not that far, you could tie a rope (or your extension cord) to your car and tell the EMS crew to follow it up to the door of your shelter.

I would add some kind of emergency flasher or refector. A friend works for the DOT and hit a small white car with a snow plow The driver and passanger were still inside. They had stopped because they could see to drive in the storm, but hadn't gotten far enough off the road. Fortunately no one was hurt.

Interestingly, we got stuck in exactly this situation this past Sunday.

A group of us went snow camping in the Mokelumne Wilderness near Carson Pass over the weekend, and got caught in a snowstorm of unforecast fury. Winds were reported in excess of 100mph, and we got over 2 feet of snow dumped on us in camp.

We slogged our way back to the Meiss Meadow SnoPark, only to find that the state had not yet plowed it (and as we were to discover, had no intention of doing so any time that day).

There were six cars and an old school bus there; our group represented four of the cars, and a father and son in one of the other cars was already there, digging their car out.

After realizing that the plows that kept whizzing by weren't going to help us, and with the storm still raging, it was decided to dig our way out with our avalanche shovels and whatever else we could find at hand (snowshoes, etc.). We dug snow 2-3 feet deep from an 8' wide, 200-300' route leading from the most remote car to the highway, which took us several hours and multiple shifts.

The good news is that it worked. And, because we'd been snow camping, all of us had mostly suitable clothing, most of us had shovels, and we had shelters and stoves and pots to melt snow for water if we ended up stuck. I also had my PSK and FAK and some other gear (blankets, some NeatSheets, a pulk sled, extra flashlight) in the car.

However:

None of us had enough water. Due to the storm, we'd not melted more that morning, and so we had cut it pretty tight even without finding we were snowed in. Most of us didn't have more than a few snacks left. Most of us didn't have a change of clothing in our cars, or other backup equipment.

While everything turned out great, it was illuminating to see what would have been nice to have ready to go in the car, rather than just in our packs. I'm not sure how to store the water (it would freeze), but having more there still would have been smart. I'll make sure I have more extra clothing and gloves and food there as well.

I'll think about this some more, but those were my first impressions after the fact.

- Steve

PS - for the curious, here are some pictures of the camping part of the trip. (Note: if you have ad blocking with Norton Internet Security turned on, the thumbnails may not display - just click one that does, then use "next" to move through the pictures.)

Wow.

Great pics. What's "spindrift"?

Steve-

Thanks for sharing your adventure and the pics; that's a great area for a trip, notwithstanding the circumstances.

spindrift | noun: spray blown from the crests of waves by the wind. • driving snow or sand. ORIGIN early 17th cent.(originally Scots): variant of spoondrift, from archaic spoon [run before wind or sea] + the noun drift .

(In this case, referring to powdery snow crystals driven by the wind, which often find their way under tarps and cracks in shelters.)

It is a great area - I've been there in Winter and Summer and love it all around. I've section-hiked the PCT through there and snowshoed up Little Round Top as well.

Are you from CA?