I've read lots of controversy over the effectiveness and durability of Gore-tex rain gear. Some say it doesn't really breath as well as advertised and during moderately strenuous activity the user will be bathed in condensation that is simply not expelled through the membrane fast enough. Others say that the membrane will fall apart and fail all too early under moderate-to-heavy use, especially under the load of backpack straps.

I'm hoping some of you use Gore-tex gear and can give me honest feedback on your results. Given the price of Gore-tex rain suits I just don't want to sink the money only to find out that I'm still getting wet, either from my own sweat or from leakage.

I tend to be a poncho guy, but they get in the way while walking through the woods or when cooking. I have a simple coated-nylon rain suit, but when I wear it in the summer I simply bake and get overheated.

Thanks,

Ken K.

www.wiggys.com has extensive archived newsletters. Jerry is opinionated to the point of combativness (my kind of guy) but knows his stuff. I bought a first generation parka shell. I was a little put off when the saleman mentioned I needed seam sealer glue AFTER I paid for it and when I asked what the HUGE underarm zippers were for he got occupied with another customer. I learned soon enough, the thing leaked through the seams in every place I missed with the glue and then overheated in spite of opening those huge zippers. Goretex does not work as claimed and even the demonstration ad was admittedly 'enhanced.' Goretex is on what, it's 3rd generation now? Gone are the glues, replaced by factory taped seams as an 'extra' but now we have a special soap to clean the easily clogged and soiled micropores. The reallity is what keeps rain out will also keep perspiration IN. We try different strategems of drafty ponchos or truly effective bibpants and Jackets. I finally figured out you do what needs doing and then crawl into a shelter to dry out and boil up hot food.

Glad someone else has noticed that about goretex. Proper ripoff. Anyway, I sweat up really quickly and resigned myself to wearing a fleece, then when i stop take it off and replace with dry kit. However, can anyone comment on eVENT clothing or perhaps ventile kit please?

Ventile is a well tried material very popular in the UK. There is a simple reality marketers and customers both miss. NO material is going to magically perform 100% in all situations 100% of the time. And I frankly wouldn't want such a get up. I invision myself encumbered like a space walking astronaut with only a visor to appreciate his surroundings. I hold to a John Muir intimacy with nature. Geting a little uncomfortable is part of the experience. I also have a little voice in my ear that says O.K. let the woolly mammoths alone, weathers turning, back to the cave. Pilots call this TUC- time of usefull consciousness before you black out.

We can send a man to the moon, but can't make decent raingear...

I have tried a lot of different types of raingear, and interestingly, the thing that seems to always work pretty well is repelling rain! I've used ponchos, coated nylon, softshells, hardshells, Goretex(and other membrane type products), marine foul weather gear, even oilslicks that the commercial fishermen use. I have to say that the all seem to keep rain out. They just don't let the perspiration out, as was mentioned earlier!

The thing that differentiates foul weather shells for me is the ability to ventilate them. I'm usually not just standing around in the rain, so I'm doing something that's going to make me sweat. Usually it's backpacking, and that's a particularly bad problem, because your back is where there is usually a nice big vent, and it's now compressed against your back.

The best results I seem to get are wearing the minimum number of layers under the shell to keep me a little cool when still. Then when you start working/walking/etc, you won't sweat as much. It's similar to cold weather situations, where you want to start out a little cold before you hike, and then add and remove layers as needed to stay comfortable, but, keep perspiration to a minimum. Those layers should be things that aren't going to absorb perspiration, but, rather let it move farther out, polypro, fleece, etc. Open up any pit zips, and vents. Consider buying the outer shell one size larger than you think you need, so it'll be loose fitting, will allow for additional layering, and still allow airflow.

One tip that I have found to help, is that I have far better results when I DON"T wear the hood, but, instead wear a wide brim hat to keep the rain off my head. It allows me to leave my neck area open a little more, and provides a place for the heat and perspiration to get out. Now, in cold weather, or driving rain, the hood is still needed, but, it tends to encourage the build-up of moisture inside the shell, so I avoid it when possible. Your mileage may vary... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So are you saying that you wear a coated nylon shell? I'm assuming that you don't recommend spending the $$ on Goretex.

What are your thoughts on ponchos??

Poncho's strengths are packability, usefullness in building or extending a shelter and universal size. Their weakness is if you do heavy work or scrambling over obstacles you will eventually get wet. You have to work REAL hard at overheating in a poncho. Coated nylon is very waterproof. It can eventually lose partial coating through use and washing. You could also look into the various oiled clothing such as Barbour, Filson and Australia's Drizabone. These are fine cotton dressed in a wax/oil finish that can be renewed much like shining shoes.

RE: Coated nylon vs Gore-tex: I have both, and still wear both. My observation has been that the garments made with the Gore-tex membrane tend to be more expensive, but they also tend to be better constructed, and have more flexibility (pockets, vents, zip configurations, etc.). I think it's the flexibility of the shells that I use that's more important than the type of waterproofing.
I have a great shell with a Gore-tex membrane knockoff that I bought at West Marine for boating, but, I find it's nice for hiking too, because I can open various vents depending on conditions. I can unsnap the hood, or roll it into the collar, I can unzip the front, sizes, and underarms. It also has a long vent that runs across the back, with a big overlap so rain doesn't blow up under it. Executive summary, you don't really need the Gore-tex, but, some of the best constructed rain gear will use it, so you may buy the garment because of the features rather than because of the Gore-tex.

RE: Poncho's. As was mentioned, you have to work pretty hard to overheat under a poncho, it's about as much ventilation as you can have (well, maybe an umbrella?). I still have a big poncho in the top pocket of my pack. It can go over me and my pack, quickly. I still tend to wear a hat, rather than the hood of the poncho, except in extreme conditions. The hat needs to have a wide enough brim that the water runs off outside the perimeter of the hole your head goes through.

Another feature of the venerable poncho, you can sleep under one, it's not great, but, it works.

I have some experience with coated nylon and Gore-tex. IMHO, I will never wear coated nylon again unless out of absolute necessity. It's water repellency (when new) is remarkable, but so is that of a rubber suit. When your inner layers get completely saturated by perspiration, your still wet.

Breathable membranes are not 100% efficient in allowing moisture to escape, but most have fairly efficient venting.

It makes no sense to dress in "wicking layers", poly-pro, fleece, etc, and then place a vapor barrier on top of it all.

Regarding ponchos, I assume they play a role in building shelters and improvised sleeping systems, but try wearing one when the wind picks up and the rain starts coming horizontally. Nothing like turning into a human sail.

Gerry

I've only had one raincoat that liked much at all ... a Browning Pac Jac. It's got a microfiber exterior and is lined with GoreTex LTD ... Bought it about 7 years ago and it's still doing well. Wore it pheasant hunting (with an orange vest on top) in a steady rain for a few hours the other day and it got the job done.

The nice thing is, it's exterior is of a sort of finish that it doesn't even look or feel like a raincoat ... more like a soft windbreaker. Most breathable raingear I've ever had, and I hate the stuff that leaves you soaked from sweat, 'cause I can get a good sweat up just thinkin' hard.

Mine, which is loden colored, doesn't show much in way of stains or dirt either. Packs up nicely for travel, too.