I'm a little confused as to the use of the scalpel blades that are present in many of the PSKs(including the Doug's advertised kit). Is it intended simply as a last-ditch backup knife? Has anyone actually tried using a bare scalpel blade (sans holder/handle) for any significant tasks? I can't imagine using one without removing bits of my fingers in the process.

Also, why, are razor blades not recommended for this purpose? Obviously double edged razor blades (like this: http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/webb/BOT410/BasicAnatomy/HandSec/RazBlades.jpg) would be tricky to handle, but it seems to me that a single edged razor blade (such as: http://home.earthlink.net/~yasudastudio/images/Blade3DTN.jpg) would be safer and easier.

Alex

As Quoted on the Contents list of the ETS PSP:
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Scalpel Blade - back-up to your usual pocket or sheath knife. First aid. Use wood stick(s) as handle, wedge in end or between two and secure with wire or duct tape.
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In a previous job I used scalpel blades, usually just in my fingers. We got out of date unused scalpels from the local hospital. They are sharp enough to do delicate work with little pressure and still hold them in your fingers. For larger work I've put them into an art knife handle. They were a smaller size than the one in Doug's PSP.
Never needed to use one in a survival situation though. They would be easier to make a handle for than a razor bade.

Theres a bad joke about razor blades in even badder kits being used to commit suicide with when all the cheap contents fail <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Obviously nobody is going to split firewood billets with a scalpel blade. But lets play 'what if. ' I have just crashed and all I have is the Ritter Kit my G/F gave me for Christmas (wink, wink-nudge,nudge) What will I use for fuel beyond those SPARKLITE tinders? Well lets get a small stick, split one end carefully with that blade and make an improvised handle either duct taping or lashing it secure. Now I can break off small pencil size branches, but to make a feather or fuzz stick this blade is JUST ENOUGH to get a squaw fire going to dry out and burn increasingly large bits of wood. Lets see, I didn't wear nearly enough clothing. There are upholstered seats in the wreckage. This little knife is JUST ENOUGH to carefully remove some panels to cut into mukluks and a rain cape. Hey! theres a tree over there and if I carefully inscribe the bark I can get some decent sized panels to supplement my shelter, stitch up a pot for boiling water and making up a nourishing tea. Hey! theres a river nearby and I can trim this springy branch into a pole, attach my safety pin eyes and maybe land a trout or two. I'll need to groove a slot for my gill hook so I don't lose them during landing. Finally I cleanly gut them, saving the entrails in the bark basket to bait the deadfalls and snares I also built with my knife. It's getting dark now, I've got my shelter built with fine grooves to help secure my lashings. Think I'll keep my knife close at hand in case Bart smells those trout entrails <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Single edged razor blades were the standard in kits. The shift now is to scalpels Because they are a better quality blace overall. Scalpels also come in a number of blade shapes giving you a choice of edge profile rather than the straight flat razor blade.

Also scalpels have a stub where the handle is attached in normal use. The stub is what you hold until you make a handle. Along with being better quality steel the overall blade is stronger than a razor blade.

Another choice would be exacto blades. Same thing you hace a choice of shapes. But they don't have as good as quality of blade or edge as a scalpel.

You can also choose the blade of a utility knife. But you are limited to only one style blade.

Because of the size of PSK's you are limited to a blade without a handle. Not enough room in the kit. Even with a razor blade to you need to to improvise a handle to do more than very fine cuts. But a stick and some judicious lashing can make a fairly respectable knife. At least for light weight jobs.

I've always found xactos generally hold up better than scalpels. I like the #26 blade- three inches long, with most of that a nice, straight, razor sharp edge.

It's dark, you are tried, stressed, and maybe your hands are shaking. Do you really want a scalpel blade in your hands trying to make a handle so you won't cut yourself when cutting other things?
I scraped the scalpel blade in my Ritter kit and added a well sharpened alox classic SAK and thinned scale Bark River Mikro Slither (orange scales with hollow pins for a lanyard) in a small Kydex sheath to my kit. A Vic money Clip SAK also fits in place of the classic. The above take little room and IMHO, are far safer and better than a bare scalpel blade. The knives should fit in many tinned kits or pocket kits..

I decided to include one in case I needed to cut on myself. I've got straight edges and knives for general purpose work.

I've always assumed the scalpel was there to cut the cord or thread as needed, cut the Tinder-Quik tabs in half, or to do some "filleting" of whatever critters you might be lucky enough to catch IF you are silly/forgetful enough not to suppliment the kit with a decent knife.

A scalpel will do little for carving wood even if you are crafty enough to fashion a handle, and generally will dull fast enough that they won't last long if you try to use them on wood.

The scalpels are tiny and an easy addition. In the event I don't have a knife, I'd rather have them with me than nothing.

<<Soapbox Mode On>>

I'll continue to stress the importance of making sure that you suppliment the little kits with some kind of sufficient shelter item(s), wether it is a poncho, plastic bags, space blanket(s), plastic tarp(s), or nylon tarp(s). In many situations the thing that is most likely to kill is exposure to the elements.

<<Soapbox Mode Off>>

Ken K.

One thing I've added to the kit are the little razor blade scrapers that you can get at Home Depot. They come in a very slender plastic package and are very safe. One more option...

You can buy a small block of polymer clay at a craft shop for under $3 and make dozens of lightweight scalpel/Exacto blade handles. (Fimo is the first one to come to mind, but there are others.)

Just cut off a 1/4x1/4x1/2" piece, knead until soft while you're preheating your kitchen oven to 265°F or whatever the clay recommends. Roll it into a snake twice as long as you need, press the end of the blade into one end, then fold the other end over the end of the blade to sandwich it between the clay, leaving it about 1/8" thick. Shape or trim to suit. Bake for 10-15 minutes. Let cool.

Make sure the clay oozes through the hole in the handle end of the blade so it's secure within the clay.

Do NOT use a higher temp than the package of clay recommends!

Sue

I would suspect you could also go to a local college book store and buy scalpel handles in the biology gear section. At least back when I was in school they had them.

So has anyone ever actually tried using a bare scalpel blade in a real or simulated survival situation?

Also, has anyone ever tried improvising a stick handle for such a blade?

Alex

I took apart an old X-acto #3 (I think) and put the "chuck" in my PSK. That gives me a little bit of a grip for a scalpel blade if there are absolutely no sticks to be had. I also carry a wood screw to start a hole in the end of a stick that I can then screw the x-acto chuck into. If I could get a chuck screw with a wood screw in it, I'd love it, but they weren't made for such things.

Of course one might be tempted to think I need my Leatherman for the wood screw, and at that point I must have a knife, so why would I need the scalpel blade? The srew has an eyelet just big enough to grip with my sausage-like fingers... LOL

Truthfully though, unless your packing a PSK in a small tin or case, which a lot of people do (me lol), a stainless steel scalpel handle is only about 6" x 1/2" x 1/8" in size (estimate) plus the size of a set screw if you choose to go that route and only costs about $2.50, so that's an option as well.

With all of that said, and as others have noted, carry a good knife, the scalpel blades are there just in case. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Scalpel, no, but the larger xacto and razor blades many times. Never been cut, but you do have to be careful.

I usually keep a couple of #11 blades (w/clay handle) in my pocket kit. They are useful for digging out large splinters and lancing abscesses. I even know how to use one to perform a last-ditch emergency tracheotomy, if needed.

They're no replacement for even a small knife, but I'll keep a couple around, just the same.

Sue

I added a very thin 2-bladed alox Victorinox SAK to my Ritter Kit in addition to the scalpel blade. I think this was the Pocket Pal but in red alox rather than plastic. The alox is quite a bit thinner than the plastic scaled model.

Any decent univerisity bookstore should have plastic or metal scapel handles. The plastic ones could easily be trimmed to fit the pouch and weigh almost nothing. Adding another scalpel blade would also be a good idea.

For that mater, the slimmer X-Acto handle (the number 1, uses #11 blades) is only as thick as a pencil. They are soft aluminum, so you can trim to fit. The bigger handles, the #2, is the same material, but a bit chubbier- I'd say it was worthwhile to use that, and the bigger/longer blades.

If you already have a pencil in your kit. Make the scalpel holder slot in the other end so its ready to be used when you need it.

But...but...I might need an eraser to erase something I wrote! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Nice idea, though. <thumbs up>

http://www.archaeologiemuseum.it/f01_ice_uk.html clik on The Iceman, click on Tools and click #3 <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

That looks remarkably like one of my kitchen knives <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thats an interesting article to read through.

Oh cut it out <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ... or dont make mistakes <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

They make plastic handled disposable scalpels. Just trim the handle to fit.

If your concerned about having a backup blade in a PSK there are upgrades. The natural first thought is a small folder. In the past we've seen small SAKs, Douk Douks etc. Another option I mentioned in an old thread was a blade blank with a rattail tang. Some are small enough to fit diagonally in a tin or you may sacrifice part of the tang for greater blade length. You will have to improvise a handle, but it's a quantum step up. My friend Ragnar @ www.ragweedforge.com has a nice selection at moderate cost.

I think one of the K.I.S.S. knives would make a good addition to a PSK, it's fairly compact and about as functional as most full size folders.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=39706

http://www.1sks.com/store/crkt-kiss-info.html

Having ordered a Mikro Slither I'd like to know how and where you found a Kydex sheath to fit it?

I have been meaning to post a pic of one of my knives for a while here...
This is a NON-locking folder... But it is SO small and sharp and MUCH easier to safely handle that I really need to put one in my DR-PSK...
It is the A. G. Russell™ Ultimate Pen Knive...
It is TINY and SHARP(though the very TIP needed a bit of work to make it as sharp as the rest of the knife...
At 0.2oz you will not even notice it is in the kit...
Be sure and get one with the bail, as you will need to tie something to it after you take it out of your kit, because it is WAY to easy to lose...Yes it is THAT small...
I am afraid to carry one in my pocket, because when I empty my pockets, it is harder to find than a dime sometimes...

Interesting option - they only say 2" long closed on the site, but how thick and wide is it?

I've added a Vic' farmer to mine.



quite useful with its blade, saw, bottle opener, tin opener and a couple of screwdrivers. It still seals properly as well <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I keep a SAK Secretary in my smallest (Altoids tin) kit. I figure that's two razor sharp blades and a decent handle while still small and light enough for a tiny pocket kit.



* Format: knife
* Maker: Victorinox
* Length: 84 mm
* Weight: 20 g
* Tool Layers: 1
* Blade: Large Spearpoint
* Blade: Small Spearpoint
* Scale Material: alox
* Scale Color: silver
* Availability: available
* MN: 0.6900.16
* MSRP: $16.00

VERY, VERY, thin... You could probably shove it under your fingernail... Maybe a LITTLE thicker than the BLADE on a Swiss Army Knife...

Well, James, you made me do it. I just ordered one from A.G. Russell. (Like I need any motivation to buy a knife) <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sweet! Sounds like a winner. I'm in.

WARNING, you most likely will be surprised(disappointed???) when you see how small it is...
I was expecting something tiny(like a tiny little stainless steel handled folder that I gave to my father a LONG time ago), but nothing THIS small...Or actually this THIN!!!
This is NOT a heavy duty blade, but very useful... It might as well be a folding scalpel...

Why not? I don't think I have ever seen a kit packed so tight that a scalpel blade would not fit. I would rather have a real knife, and do 99% of the time, but Mr. Murphy is alive and well.







Plus, for surgery, there is nothing better. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have bought several of these. I intend to buy more.
You cant beat the price, and are pretty danged sharp, though hardly "rugged"

miniature straight razor

I'm not sure of the question here. Scalpel blades are very different from razor blades. I would not use a razor blade to remove damaged tissue from a wound, nor would I cut parachute cord with a scalpel blade. Scalpel blades are honed to an edge and razor blades (utility blades) are ground to an edge. I carry both. I carry scalpels, sutures, forcepts, etc. in my surgical kit, and Razor (utility blades) with my light weight kit. Both for different purposes.

James,

I received theUltimate Pen Knife the other day. You weren't lying - it is tiny. But it does fit in my PSK, and it's very sharp and well-made, so it's a keeper. Thanks for the suggestion!

I have those things stuffed EVERYWHERE...

You are very welcome.

Be sure and try it out and give us a report... I have been meaning to try making some fuzz-sticks with mine, but have not had time... <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />