This is a question I have been thinking about for the last couple of days. What exactly should a young man know and what skills should he have by the time he leaves his fathers house to go out on his own?

I am thinking along several lines but obvious things like being able to drive (competently), changing a flat tire, shooting a rifle pistol and shotgun proficiently and safely are the kinds of things I am thinking of for skills.

For knowledge base I am thinking along the line of navigate with map and compass, keep a checkbook, competent in math etc. Anyway what do you all think??

What skills and knowledge should a young man have???

A formal course in etiquette and a working knowledge of a basic dress wardrobe. He may never dine with HRH Charles, but will know enough not to wear cowboy boots with a dinner jacket or eat his asparagus with a grapefruit spoon. Major literature is constantly being referenced in our society. The best class I ever took was the Bible as literature. It makes the silly squabble of intelligent design vs Evolutionary theory pretty hollow. When he's done another religous text studied in the same manner makes both more wondrous as a good read and expression of the divine. I would pass on the Mahabarada though, that tome took me a year in between light reading like War and Peace and Lord of the Rings. Has he read and attended a Shakespeare play? I would add a ballet, opera , classical concert and a day at an art museum. A second language opens the world's door if but a few inches. Find some hardscrabble, organic or traditional farm and put him behind a plow. If he can work in harmony with a molly mule the workplace is easy ( and a lot less engaging.) Can he cook? I could have resolved all those Cary Grant-Ingrid Bergman, Rock Hudson -Doris Day movies in one reel by cooking biscuits and sausage gravy along with coffee and serving breakfast in bed. If it was Dianna Rigg she could explain the T.V. Remote for me while tuning in Bugs Bunny. I have a family trauma mental block against anything electronic an irish screwdriver can't fix <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> But this generation seems to know everything in this blue screen alternative pluriverse <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ack! Could we discuss something less controversial like handguns, knives, religion, or politics??? Seriously, that's a heck of a good question that most folks never think about - raising children seems to be haphazard these days.

Chris had good things on his list. Here's another philosophical starter list:

Specialization is for Insects

"A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.? Lazarus Long (Robert A. Heinlein, Time Enough for Love, 1973)

Basic Home Ec stuff like cooking, repair sewing, housecleaning, doing laundry from sorting to hanging (pressing), Auto mechanics 101, GOOD MANNERS, love of learning, scepticisim, optimism, willingness to act instead of gripe, etc etc - at some point we run into family and social values, eh? After we have grandkids and raise them, I'll have all the answers... <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Good luck with your list!

Regards,

Tom

Given the nationwide negative (!) personal savings rate, massive credit card debt, zero retirement savings society we find ourselves in, make darn sure every young person receives some basic financial survival training.

Spend less than you make. Save the difference. Pay cash. Never carry a balance on a credit card. Balance your check book. Check your statements. Plan for your retirement and start early saving for it. Etc. Forget getting lost in the woods, buried in a snow drift, trapped in earhquake rubble, infected with the plague... the biggest threat to everyone is everyday life. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

"What should a young man know?"

Mommy and Daddies phone number. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Stay away from women as long as possible.

Or at least know when to duck <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm pretty sure that a young man should know everything that a young woman should know--and vice-versa. Not that either group ever listens..... I sure didn't! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

- How to tie a tie.
- How to do laundry
- What things can actually still be fixed by you, the owner of something. This excludes most electronics. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
- Hygiene. Clipping nails, combing hair, washing clothes, etc. You can't usually attract the opposite sex with long hair, smelly body, and dirty clothes.
- Why you really should take the garbage out when I asked, because now it smells and is rotting
- How your government is SUPPOSED to work for you
- How to deal with people. Huge, big, complicated, never ending, multiple point of view subject. Covers all of the major topic "no-nos" like drugs, self-defense, weapons, politics and religion. Know what all of the commonalities and differences are in all of the worlds religions. Know what battles to pick in your life. Unless you have alot of power and money already, being an a** all the time won't get you very far. Controlling temper is a big thing. You could be involved with the police, being a "good" person and respectful of the law, and have to deal with a cop who may make accusatory comments, or apper to be baiting you and/or harrassing you. You must truly resist the urge to box his ears. Battery on law enforcement officers, no matter the personality of the individual officer, do not look good. This constitutes a "really really big mistake"
- How to deal with people who are members of groups that you have strong opinions of (i.e. drug users, firearm "enthusiasts", homosexuals). Do you treat them as human, or not?
- It's okay to fail, just don't make any really really big mistakes (unfortunately, even childhood squabbles now can become felonies *sigh*)
- Cheating really does nothing to further yourself. You'll make yourself look like an expert on paper, and then an expert will find out you're not when you open your mouth. There goes the fun high-paying job.
- Find a job you truly enjoy working at. This includes the work itself, and the environment you are in (see the "dealing with people"). You could make $100,000 and have to deal with idiots and high stress every day. If you like that great, but you'll probably be more miserable than you can stand
- Party responsibly
- How to problem solve

I think the most important, articulate your individual views of the above, and why they are that way. For example, if you say "don't use drugs", stories about best friends who went down the wrong path and either died, lost their jobs, ended up in jail, or worse dead, may reinforce why you believe this way. Without any of this "supporting evidence", it's simpler to say "I'm you're parents, do as I say"

If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you
But make allowance for their doubting too,
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream--and not make dreams your master,
If you can think--and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it all on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on!"

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings--nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much,
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And--which is more--you'll be a Man, my son!


--Rudyard Kipling

My father was a Sergeant with the Chicago Police Dept, killed in the line of duty when I was three years old. My mother never remarried. Not too many mementos left, but a prized one is a framed copy of the above. It has had to stand in for fatherly advice on a number of occasions. High standards, but isn't that we all wish for our kids.

Life is a constant stream of encounters with other people, and we get only one shot at making a favorable first impression.

So, a young man – or woman – would be ahead of the game if they possessed good verbal and written communication skills. And, as someone else mentioned, they need to know how to dress well, and appropriately for a given situation.

It’s an accepted fact that the outcome of a job interview is often decided in the first few minutes of the interview. Why? Because the interviewer is making immediate judgments based on appearance and presentation (communication). The all-powerful first impression at work.

I’ve passed on many otherwise well-qualified job applicants because their résumés were poorly written, riddled with misspelled words, or because their shoes looked like they’d just hiked 50 miles in them, or their shirt looked like they slept in it.

I think reading is a crucial skill and interest. Not just the ability to read, but a real desire to read. A first class, well-rounded education can be acquired by simply reading – fiction, non-fiction, and periodicals. I’m confident that the vast majority of people successful in life – personal relationships, careers, financial achievements, recreational pursuits etc. – are “readers.”

As a guy who was in the banking industry for 35 years, I’ll loudly second Groo’s recommendation that young folks need to have at least a basic knowledge of things financial – before they discover credit cards, car loans and mortgages. This is so important, and so overlooked. A little knowledge goes a long way and could make the difference between a happy life and a not-so-happy life.

Like Groo also said, tell ‘em “Plan for your retirement and start early saving for it.” It’s hard for most young adults to think of retirement as anything but an abstract concept (Hey, I’m young, it’s time to have fun!). But I guarantee, later in life, many will wish their parents had shared this concept: “Son (daughter), if you start saving $200 a month at age 25, and keep it up until you’re 60, you’ll have nearly $300,000 saved, and you’ve invested only $84,000. But if you wait until you’re 50, you’ll have to save $1800 a month – $216,000 invested – to accumulate the same $300,000.” I’ve seen way too many elderly folks in disastrous financial circumstances to not feel passionate about this (and young ones too for that matter). It ain’t a pretty sight.

"The magic of compound interest." <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Interesting thread.



Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy.
-- Lazarus Long (Robert Heinlein, "Time Enough for Love")

"How to deal with people who are members of groups that you have strong opinions of (i.e. drug users, firearm "enthusiasts", homosexuals). Do you treat them as human, or not?" (Your quote above). <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Exactly what is it in your opinion that makes "firearm enthusiasts" non human? If so, there are a lot of non humans on this forum. More, I suspect, than you would imagine. And I take great offense at being grouped with homosexuals. I think your remarks were way out of line and poorly thought out before you engaged your fingers on the keyboard. Your mind was clearly in NEUTRAL! <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Boone

I totally missed that until you pointed it out. But I'm not sure he's implying that drug dealers and gun enthusiasts share any quality other than "I have strong feelings about ______". I have strong feelings about puppies and apple pie. That doesn't mean a puppy is an apple pie or that I feel the same way about both (wouldn't eat a puppy). <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Joe, mellow. Nobody here will think less of a gun owner just because an abstract collection of symbols for gun owner was placed next to the abstract symbols for Gays. You want peace and quiet in a gunstore? I was sitting outside mine years ago well before opening hour. I was enroute to a excavation in the desert and wanted to pick up my .375 H&H mauser in case of rabid desert tortoises and pagan biker gangs. I'm kicked back, drinking my Starbucks and listening to a D'Oyly Carte recording of H.M.S. Pinafore. Truck pulls up behind me like the spaceship in Close Encounters of the Third Kind in the predawn dusk. Guy gets out and walks up to my open window ( my hand slipping down for the Walther PP) " Well morning friend-blah blah-blah I did two tours in Nam, blah blah, Homeschool my kids, got born again- you've heard of Jesus have you? Blah, Blah And I' m lifetime NRA, hate gays, Democrats, hippies" and more stream of consciousness dogtail sniffing who are you smalltalk than the collected poetry of Rush Limbaugh. All I wanted was to do was sip my 'Jo and hear my brit light opera. I finally said deadpan " I'm GAY" and he ran for his truck and rolled up the windows. I again relaxed and sang along with " I'm called little buttercup, sweet little buttercup, though I shall never know why--." The cashier Robin walked up from his cami painted VW thing in a german uniform and said " good morning Buttercup, going to the great Western gunshow today? I had the whole store to myself as my erstwhile friend sort of pressed himself between the cigarstore Indian and the reloading cabinet. You never know when labels can help out <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I don't know...

To hear some folks talk about it these days one might be tempted to think they could catch "it" like the cold. And we all know that once you've got it, it's like a gateway drug in that it leads to other untoward things.

So grouping words together is just asking for trouble...

Why once my name was listed in the same program as one of them famous ones and I could feel it creeping onto me like the voodoo. My wrist started going limp on its own I tell you.

/sarcasm

LOL

I apologize, the point I was trying to make is that these groups of people are the groups that people in the U.S. are sharply divided over in their perspectives and/or prejudiced against. A young man must decide how he will handle people that respectively do not hold his views, or the person that outright oppose his views in a fanatical fashion. Will he just believe he is right, or try and find out why someone believes that way? Doing this will allow you to understand your fellow "man" better, and possibly assist in living in this world.

I had actually spent a considerable amount of time on the post, and as I wrote my post, I did not see the alternate meaning of the paragraph. I guess this would be "forgiveness", and also the concept of "seeing things from another person's viewpoint". Both good things to learn.

And maybe we should add being "inquisitive", not in a interrogation fashion, but the desire/need to learn about everything around us. Someone makes a post that is offensive to yourself, do you immediately lash out and declare them an idiot, or, do you ask what the reason and meaning of the post? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Plus, I think this shows only one thing: You never stop learning.

SheepDog,

Any young man or young woman could benefit greatly from the wisdom of “Uncle Eric”. (Actually, any adult could learn a great deal with minimal effort.)

Here is a quote from Richard Maybury’s website:

“The Uncle Eric series of books is written by Richard Maybury for young and old alike. Mr. Maybury plays the part of an economist writing a series of letters to his niece or nephew. Using stories and examples, he gives clear, simple explanations of topics that are generally thought to be too difficult for anyone but experts. If you want to understand what others don't, read these books. Each "Uncle Eric" book is consistent with the principles of America's Founders.”

The books are paperback, modest in size, and large in content. The books are a “big picture” look at many topics that that are confusing to people or distorted by our media and public schools. I have several of the books and when my children reach an appropriate age Uncle Eric will share his insights. I highly recommend these books.

Here is a list of the titles I personally own:

Uncle Eric Talks About Personal, Career and Financial Security

Whatever Happened to Penny Candy?

Whatever Happened to Justice?

Are You Liberal? Conservative? Or Confused?

Ancient Rome, How It Affects You Today

The Money Mystery: The Hidden Force Affecting Your Career, Business and Investments

The Clipper Ship Strategy

Other titles available:

World War I, The Rest of the Story

WORLD WAR II, The Rest of the Story

The Thousand Year War in the Mideast

More info: http://www.chaostan.com/eric.html

I hope this is helpful,

TR

I take it you've never been REALLY hungry <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

Or people who write "ie" when they mean "eg". <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hey man! The techincal writer lady here keeps reminding me of that...

i.e. - that is
e.g. - for example

Just in case anyone else wants to know

Exactly! That's why I have that tag line in my sig....

That's exactly what I've discussed with each son and nephew right before giving each (in turn) their first (BB) gun...

This goes for young women, to.

Study math, history, geography, the sciences, and psychology, these will all come in handy.

Learn to think for yourself, to question, and when to have faith. To read, and to read between the lines. To listen, and to see.

When to speak, and when to keep your mouth shut.

Know the law of the land.

Learn how to walk a mile in another's shoes.

Listen to your mother, she usually knows what she's talking about. So does your father. Become friends with your grandparents.

How to say you screwed up.

How to ask for help.

To heal, to lead. To cook, to sew, to tend the crops, and the animals. To track, to hunt, to trap, to fish, to butcher, to preserve, to tan. At least one more langauge, even if it's just a working knowledge. How to use a computer, and a slide rule. How to light a fire, how to build a shelter, how to build a home. To drive a car, a truck (at least to move it), to ride a motorcycle, a bicycle and a horse, to sail (both with a motor and sails). To use a gun, a knife, a sword, a staff, an axe, hands, feet, teeth, and the random barstool, when to use each, and how to avoid using them. How to run, and climb, and how to fall. How to drink safely and responsably. How to use a rope. How to use a hammer and a screw driver; basic wood and metal working. How to fix most household items, including electronics. To use a map, gps, a compass, and the stars.

How to relax, to dream, to have fun. How to be serious.

And you should know yourself.

Uhmm.... yeah. I know I left stuff out, but between that and what others have said, I think that young people today really aren't learning their lessons. And I'm saying that as a ripe old fart of 29, who spends his day surrounded by 18 and 19 year olds. :P

Thing I left out #1: How to make beer, mead, wine and whiskey, at least in theory.
Thing I left out #2: How to read the *censored* directions before trying something, or asking silly questions.
Thing I left out #3: How to use a library, including the Dewey Decimal System.
Thing I left out #4: How to appreciate the beauty of silence. AKA, that the single digit numbers on the volume and the headphone jacks on the stero aren't just for show.

Thank you <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Pete

A young man should know consequences and coping skills. There is a consequence to every action or lack thereof and sometimes you have to cope with the results without pestering the question, "Why?"

A young man should know not only etiquette, but how to show respect for everyone. He should also know the consequences for being disrespectful and the consequences for being disrespected. He should learn to cope with a good butt kicking when he's deserved it and he should know not to be boastful and quietly cope with winning a battle he's engaged in. He should know both verbal and non verbal means of defense.

A young man should know what battles to fight and why. He should be able to take a stand on an issue and not back down from that stand until he's proven wrong. Hence, the young man needs to know how to listen to reason and how to apply what he's learned. He should know how to and be able to to say he's sorry if he is proven wrong.

A young man should write down his beliefs and refer to them frequently to make sure he's still on the right track in holding his stand. He should also write down his goals in life and review those goals daily - not a day should go by that he hasn't done something to advance those goals.

A young man needs to know life skills - how to file his taxes, buy a house, patch a roof, hammer a nail, make a straight cut with a saw, etc. That does in fact mean learning outdoor and urban survival skills and learning to be preared in the event of an emergency. If he's learned all or most of the above, I'm quite sure the young man wouldn't be the type to rely on a government to come bail him out in an emergency...

M

Here are my thoughts.

A young man/woman should know the following:

Be able to change the oil in a car.

Be able to change a tire on a car.

Know fire arm safety.

How to handle a knife.

How to sharpen a knife.

Know to stand up when a lady enters a room (for the men)

Know to stand up to shake someones hand.

Know to look someone in the eye when shaking a hand.

Know how to shake hands. Not limp, too firm, grasping only the fingers etc.

Know how to start a fire and keep it maintained.

Know how to balance a checkbook. (goes with basic math I guess)

Know how to save some money for a rainy day.

Know basic manners (please, thank you, etc.)

I have enjoyed watching this thread develop! Maybe I am the only one that likes to ponder these types of questions but I think it is important to think about things like this to either better your self or as a goal to help the next generation.

As a kid my parents taught me many of the skills I have since needed. They always told me that when I went to college I would need to know this or that. At the time I thought mom was just conning me into ironing or repairing my own clothes, but sure enough those skills came in handy when I needed to repair a rag wing aircraft and the cooking skills kept me from being too hungry while being on my own.

My personal list of things to know varies as I think of new or different things but it always comes back to the basics of taking care of yourself and those around you. I also think you should know how to fit in socially with those around you whether you are at church, a deer camp, an opera, a gun show or hanging at the Four Seasons.

Even if your social graces are a little rusty, knowing enough to keep you moth shut and your eyes open until you see what’s going in will save you a lot of trouble.

knowing enough to keep you moth shut and your eyes open until you see what?s going in will save you a lot of trouble.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nuff said <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Mike

"The magic of compound interest."

"People who understand compound interest are destined to earn it, and those who don't are destined to pay it."

Ooooh. Good one. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for....

Creating a high school curriculum that would make Da Vinci wince?

Oh, and since the edit time is expired on my first contribution to this, I finally remembered what I really forgot:

Learn to sketch. If you have absolutely no artistic talent, at least learn mechanical drafting. By hand, not CAD.

Thanx !
I wanted to know.....

The one thing no-one mentioned, yet is a neccessary "skill" to master for every guy is putting on a condom correctly <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. Yep, they're more than just water carriers gents <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Not knowing and you will end up splitting it. Which can ruin your day...if not you life!! IMPORTANT

As with everything practice makes perfect <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Wow definetly want to attempt this plan as soon as I have a regular income after my study!!

I found the whole thread captivating for a teenager...esspecially this!! Cheers <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I wish I would have paid attention when I was younger, when I was told these things:

- Those that understand interest, earn it; those that do not understand interest, pay it.
- An education is expensive no matter where you earn it. (Pay for college, or pay for your mistakes.)
- Gambining is a penalty tax for those that do not understand math or statistics.
- The hardest job you'll ever have, is trying to look busy.

Scout Vespers

Softly falls the light of day,
As our campfire fades away.
Silently each Scout should ask,
"Have I done my daily task?
Have I kept my honor bright?
Can I guiltless sleep tonight?
Have I done and have I dared,
Everything to be Prepared?"

Currently working in a juvenile treatment / detention facility, I wish, <truely> that I could bestow upon all the kids that I encounter, all of what you have said. It is not the resistance of the kids that is the most difficult to penetrate, it is the parents. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sell it to the kids as a way to make thier parents annoyed, and the judge happy? Win-win situation from thier perspective. :P

On a more serious note, WHY do most parents object to thier kids learning stuff? I don't get it. I admit it, I was raised in a pretty regulation loose household, but most of my friends weren't. Is it that most parents are scared of thier kids being better than them? I thought that was the whole point, continous product improvement.

I deal which college kids all day. It shocks and horrifies me the sheer number of them that don't know anything other than some computer knowledge, and even that is pretty much just rote learning and games.

Parents, what's up with this? Teachers, am I just alone in my observation? Or just really jaded?

I am afraid it is the old Mark Twain analysis in full swing.

"When I was 18, I was disgusted at how simple and ignorant my father was. When I reached 21, I was amazed at how much my father had learned in 3 years."

I've invested a lot of time and effort into trying to raise two girls into suitable women. The only real successes I had were the times when I could get them out of the house and away from their mother, where I could "rough handle" them a little bit. It was nigh impossible to exert sufficient influence on them while mom was around, for my Samurai voice would usually compel the wife into coming to their defense, lest their sensitive natures get bruised (funny how when it was Mom that decided to "educate" them girls, the fur would tend to fly a little. I reckon what's good for the goose ain't necessarily allowed for the gander in this here day and age). Anyways, hauling their butts up to fishing camp or to hunter ed class, where the wife wasn't so much interested in taggiing along, or if she did, wasn't so quick to give me the stinky eye in front of my peers, set the mood for some great parent teaching opportunities. Now I knew when we got home the tune would change, but while they were in my world, they got to see how everyone earned their share or did without.

Now that my oldest is in college, it is quite the thing to hear her singing a different tune when she comes home. Is that gratitude I hear in her meek and humble requests now? The best part is the 16 year old, who looks up to her big sister quite a bit more than she'd lie to admit, is taking notice of how big sis is treating dear ole dad now. Of course, me going to Baghdad had as much to do with setting an example for them kids as it did anything else. It has also quieted down the wife a little bit too. Sometimes the grown up kids need the most attention. I reckon being a man about my life has helped my wife find her appropriate place in the household as well, and thus my kids are towing the line more, too.

I ain't saying womenfolk are inferior to men. That'd be putting the bad mouth on all the rest of my family, which don't make no sense. Nope, I'm saying that the social history of my 40+ years was a darned good way for my parents group to cop out of all sorts of responsibilities and do whatever they thought felt good to them, and that included trying to rearrange the household so that no one could be counted on to lead, and with no one to follow, everyone was pretty much free to "explore" the possibilities of their own existence, which led to some pretty irresponsible behavior that past generations knew to be inappropriate, without having to go thru it first to find out why. I don't really care who it is that leads the household one way or another, so long as someone steps up to the plate and starts swinging. Only thing is society still more or less looks to the man of the house as the spokesman, even though that now comes with a healthy serving of guilt. That and I ain't seen example one yet of a single mom that could do a decent job raising a kid. I am sure and certain there's some out there, but none that I know. Conversely, if you find a single dad raising young'uns, you can be almost certain those kids know discipline and respect. Trouble is, I know of a lot of single moms, but I have yet to meet a man raising children by himself. I suppose that says something about our society as well. Given the deplorable rate at which single moms seem to be failing in their committments to raise decent, respectable youth, I gotta wonder who's idea was it exactly that said a man was less fit to raise kids than a woman was? I think we were sold a bill of goods on that one folks.

What should a young man know? If he's gonna be worth anything, he'd best know an old man worth his salt. If he doesn't, then he isn't gonna know anything worthwhile for quite a while. My sister in law and my nephew are two fine examples of why that statement is so true. Had it not been for my Grandad, I'd have damn near been another one myself.

I agree that a man is no less fit to raise children than a woman, I just wish more of them would step up to the plate. So congrats on grabbing the bull by the horns and being a parent. Your kids are very fortunate to have a dad who takes such an interest in their lives, much less one who even takes them fishing and hunting.

But how can you be so certain that a single dad would be any better at raising disciplined children than a single mom, when you admitted that you've never even met a single dad? And what about the deplorable rate at which men are failing to raise their children, by abandoning them and their single moms?

Their are plenty of parents, both the mother and the father, who could do better at raising their children with discipline and respect. A single mother may not be the "best choice" for a child, but she's all the kid has in many cases.

A lot has been said however, it still, in my mind comes down to what kind of person you are as a parent. Male or female - single or wed. If you are a good person and have the best in mind for your KIDS.... Not your own personal comfort or agenda. I have noticed that parents are looking to their children for approval when making descisions. At a certain point, we the adults, have to descide what is the best action for our children. I have also noticed that parenting has become a popularity contest. Competing against your spouse, your children, teachers, other parents. I would like for everyone to get the message that these children are going to be the adults in charge while we are in a nursing home hoping that they will make the best descisions for us. With that in mind, what are we teaching our youth?? Twist your brains around that one.

As in, they want to the cool parent... Oh, sweet light, I need to work on my sterilizer ray project. Need to get it into a portable, concealable projector, the satellites are too indescriminant.

Will there be a Keychain version for EDC? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Maybe in high visiblity yellow?

Marc

Yeah, it's a shame so many men just give it up and move on. Then again, the court system hasn't been very kind to dads over the last hundred years or so. I suppose if me and the wife ever broke up and some judge told me that I wasn't good enough to be the parent, I'd probably chuck in the towel as well. Fortunately we never let it get to that. I made the stakes so high before we got married that it was gonna be worthless to let some judge decide what happens with the children.

While I've admitted I don't know any single dads personally, the ones I've heard of seem to fit my ideal. I am fairly sure that there's gotta be a good number that are just plain worthless as a parent, and still get the kids for one reason or another, and do just as horrible job as any woman could. Likewise, there's plenty of success stories out there of women raising decent boys (Jimmy Dean was raised by his Mama, and you never knew a more respectable pair of young men than him and his brother, so says my Grandma).

What gets my gizzard ain't whether its a woman or a man that makes the better parent. My belief is it takes both to really get the job done right. It's the arbitrary social preponderance that says a woman is automatically a superior candidate to be the only parent when separation is inevitable. There's been far, far too many court decisions that just automatically put the kids with a woman who was not as capable at providing for the needs of them kids, maybe financially, maybe emotionally, maybe other shortcomings as the father might be, and then to compensate for a bad decision, they force the father to pay for his "liabilities". That makes me want to wretch. It is wrong, it should never have been allowed to become a standard, and our society today is suffering at great expense because of it. It is also a big contributing factor as to why many young men shirk their responsibilities as a father, especially an illegitimate one, knowing full well they don't stand a chance in court of ever being a part of their kid's life. I can tell you, if my wife and I split up, and she fought me on custody and won, I'd likely put a bullet in her. That's what I told her before we got married, and I also said I expected the same from her if it went the other way. That crazy woman married me anyways. That's one helluva motivation to make things work out, don't ya think? We've been married 17 years now. I reckon when marriage ain't such an easy thing to get out of, you find ways to make it a success. Either that or you end up going to sleep every night with one eye open.

So the statement that a single mom is all that a kid has, for better or worse, in many cases is fairly true, but I wouldn't put it on the father so much as the state of mind of our society as a whole that this is now the case, and has been for most of my lifetime.

If we want better conditions for our kids, then lets make having kids a much more serious undertaking. Lets start imposing some real penalties on people who won't take the committment seriously, and let's be fair about it, so that one side isn't being run off while the other side gets rewarded. Lets get the parents of the kids that are having kids involved in this as well. That "free love, me generation" of the 60s and 70s has just about destroyed us, and the only way I can see we are gonna get it back is to take some pretty harsh measures.

This thread has reminded me that I really must write a large thank-you letter to my father.