What is the ideal headgear for being out in cold and miserable weather? I know a lot of you deal w/ it almost daily, but I'm from Southern California and quite spoiled so I like to stay warm and dry because I normally am.<br><br>Is a beanie better, or should I get one of those travel hats? Are the travel hats from those outdoorsey companies too light, and should I get something like a commie tanker hat (complete with red star)?

I prefer a wool or wool blend watch cap. Anyone who knits can make you one very quickly. Or, you can buy one from some of the better mail order catalogs.<br><br>Chris

Skunk, People die annually up in Los Padres national forest of exposure. They drive up there within sight of the twinkling lights of Los Angeles and think the rules haven't changed :O( You actually should find a good version of each. A simple watch cap or balaclava for warmth and a brimmed hat for shade from the sun. I can't reccomend a fur type troopers hat. Either an animal rights friend berates you, or a nimrod thinks you ( or your horse) are fair game. Been there ,ducked both;O)

As the father of a near-teenager, let me translate. A beanie, as I understand it, in teen-speak, is a variation of a watch cap. However, the newer popular name allows for a new & greater price & to a market (fashionable teens) who would never otherwise consider such a stodgy, old fashioned thing as a hat. At least that is the vernacular in my area.<br><br>Caveat: I have been advised that they are often made of fabrics other than wool, polypropolene, or any other warm cloth. It may also be made to less generous & warming size than the conventional watch/stocking cap. <br><br>Jonn

synthetic fabric balaclava. Very warm and can be worn watchcap style, among many other ways. Don't leave home without it. I am inseparable from mine, made by Patagonia, but there are several other brands.<br><br>The utility lies in the ability of the balaclava to insulate the entire head and the large blood vessels in the neck - a significant area of heat loss.

I agree- right down to the brand. I have several balaclavas that I've bought over the years, but a medium-weight synthetic fleece Patagonia is my favorite, especially for sleeping in during cold weather. A balaclava also works well inside a jacket hood, which many hats do not. I have a large head, and many balaclavas are too tight after hours of wear; but the Patagonia works.<br><br>I have a lot of hats, but the Patagonia balaclava and the Tilley are the ones that I end up actually taking. The balaclava I'll leave behind when going to warm regions, but the Tilley goes everywhere, even when I don't expect to need it. <br><br>Hats have not been fashionable for men in the US since the JFK inauguration, but they’re still a valuable piece of outdoor gear, and the fact that they’re not fashionable has made them, and knowing how to use them, even more a mark of an outdoorsman. There are areas and circumstances where you'll be in serious trouble without one. IMHO, it's a highly underrated piece of equipment.. mostly thanks to Hollywood.<br><br>

Thanks. The immediate image that "beanie" brought forth involved a propeller, and I hadn't noticed those becoming fashionable lately.. not that it would surprise me.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Hats have not been fashionable for men in the US since the JFK inauguration<p><hr></blockquote><p>Now that you mention it... how many of us wear a hat daily? Few around here do (I dismiss aging juvis wearing ball caps backwards as they are really just making a social/fashion statement) I feel undressed without a hat and think that it's plain silly to omit a hat when outside (and rude to wear a hat indoors, but that's merely a social convention, not a practical matter). Most people recognize me from quite a distance *because* I wear a hat, or so I've been told - I'm not sure that's a good thing, but it does make a silent statement about how few wear hats.<br><br>My normal everyday hat has been a crushable brimmed felt hat for the last 20 years - I guess it's vaugely like a fedora; it's not too snazzy, but it works well. If I walk outside in any but the hottest weather, it's on my head or a similar one that is made from heavier felt and has a leather neck cord/chin strap. Before that I wore one of those shapeless felt crushers as far back as matters. Cold weather I wear a coat (duh) and there is a watch cap "permanently" in a left hand side pocket of all my coats/jackets. Hot weather outings I've used various hats over the years, but I've more or less settled on boonie hats since they work OK and I have a bunch left over from my former profession. Wearing a hat is such a habit that I don't even go strolling thru my backyard without a hat. <br><br>Thankfully, no one will ever confuse me with a fashion plate so it's just an eccentricity of mine. My brother, on the other hand, "can't" wear a hat when at work - it's apparantly too non-conformist in corporate America; even if it's OK in the office, heaven forbid that a client see you in a hat. I had a boss that was a real, uh, can't say the word here - "jerk" - about me wearing a hat - made completely uncalled for nasty wisecracks (he could have simply said "don't wear a hat", at which point I would have said "No"). <shrug> He lives in an LA 'burb and I live in the mid-west, so I didn't have to endure that juvinille rudeness often. We eventually parted ways and I'm still happy and he's still a very unhappy "jerk"...<br><br>Hpw about it - how many of us city denziens wear a hat daily? I'm curious and wouldn't be able to guess one way or another - we have a diverse bunch of circumstances in this forum.

Well, since I brought it up, and you ask the direct question, I have to admit that I don’t routinely wear a hat from day to day. My work is in offices where a hat does cause some hilarity, even when I just wear one when it’s raining… and it’s one more thing to keep track of. I wear one to work infrequently, and then it’s usually a Stetson felt fedora, with a thin contrasting band so I don’t look like an Indiana Jones wannabee- I hope. The shoulder pouch adds to that problem. I avoid wearing either with bomber-style jackets.<br><br>I have a selection of fedoras in felt and canvas, some boonies and “the” Tilley, and a few baseball-type caps in the closet. <br><br>I’m not fond of baseball caps- the only time I wear them is in very cold or wet weather, under a parka hood, because the bill turns the hood opening with my head.. and when shooting outside, where the bill is welcome but a full brim interferes with hearing protectors. Other than that, they let the sun burn the tops of your ears and the back of your neck. Useless. <br><br>The closed-cell foam panel in the crown of a Tilley hat (and some of the imitations) is not just for floatation, but it also takes over the insulation value of a high crown against the beating sun while still letting it roll up or crush for packing. I found this out the hard way, by removing the foam panel and then discovering how much hotter the hat was in the sun. Funny they don’t mention that.<br><br>A trip to Hawaii and a rented convertible reminded me painfully a few years ago that my hair up top is thinner than it used to be, in a spot that I almost never see. I repeated the mistake, less severely, on the beach in Bermuda. Sunburned scalp is not fun.<br><br>It's not easy to wear a hat in the city or suburbs anymore. I mentioned that the fashion for men NOT wearing hats started when JFK refused to wear a Homburg to his inauguration. Detroit almost immediately took advantage of the situation (look at the model years) to lower the roofs on cars, thus saving themselves money in steel and glass (nobody cared about aerodynamics then), and making it much harder to go back to wearing hats. Since then, a hat inside a vehicle has been a problem- ask any State Trooper- especially if you’re 6’2” like me. John Wayne had cars specially built so he could enter without taking his hat off.<br><br>Most actors, though, found that if they didn't wear a hat their face was more conspicuous in more scenes, and then it was all over. Even in movies where men SHOULD be wearing hats (because of the date or setting) they make at most a token appearance, because the actors won’t stand for having their faces blocked or shadowed- revisionist Hollywood history, like the movies set in the '30s and '40s where NOBODY smokes. Silly.<br><br>Hollywood and TV dictate fashion more than we’d like to admit, and so we still aren’t wearing hats today, despite hundreds of generations that knew better. It’s hard to even find a restaurant with a hatrack handy anymore, though they used to be universal.<br><br>As much as I value a hat, knowing how to use one means knowing when to remove it as much as when to wear it… but in the city having one “in hand” feels even sillier and more conspicuous than wearing one, and there are many more circumstances where it’s suddenly too hot to reasonably keep it on. Then there’s the wonderful things it does to your hair. It’s much less of a hassle outside of a city.<br><br>In my defense, I do always have at least one hat in the vehicle. There’s a light canvas floppy with a rope sewn to the brim in my vehicle emergency kit. I take the Tilley whenever I’m planning on walking more than a few miles (this is wooded, shady country, not like much of the West), on all trips out of town, always in a boat, and often just when I don’t know where the day might take me. I also keep a synthetic fleece ski-style cap (sort of a watch cap that lies flat) in the flap pocket of my shoulder pouch at all times. <br><br>The only time my grandfather came to visit, from thousands of miles away and not long before his death, he politely praised the house and possessions, but I think the only thing that truly impressed him was that I had a fedora that almost matched his. He still felt that a real gentleman would not leave the house without one.<br>

Around town under normal conditions, hardly ever. When rambling around in the outdoors, almost always something - in cold weather, a balaclava; in hot or sunny weather, a full brimmed hat basically like your military boonie. Most of outdoors experience has been in the desert SW, and a hat that shades all of the old bean is really, really important. I have always been partial to a cotton hat that could be soaked in water, with a dark underlid to help with glare. It is also important to have a chin cord so the thing will stay on inthe wind. A lot of environments (caves, especially) require a protective hard hat. My favorite is a Petzl climbing helmet. When on the job (before retirement) I theoretically wore the NPS ranger flat hat, which is the most gorgeously impractical headgear ever invented.<br><br>Ball caps are pretty useless, except for fashion statements.

Rhawn( Ron) Fischer and I are contemplating a survival skills school. Our logo will be "We teach you the Rhawn Way" to help instill confidence in our students. We dislike both the Rambo mercenary and Grizzly Adams personas. I think the hat, tie and tweed look of Mallory will be our dresscode ;O)

Hey Don (and all) thanks for so much great advice. OK the deal w/ balaclavas is they may get you into a bad situation if you happen to have a firearm with you. AFAIK, it is illegal for you to have a firearm and a balaclava at the same time to use to conceal your identity for something illegal you are going to do (whatever that means, maybe it's a sentence enhancement law). In any case, because I live 2 miles from Hollywood, people associate balaclavas with bank robbers. While practical in a survival sense, I think I'd rule it out socially...(if that makes sense.)<br><br>I like outdoors gear that doesn't make me stick out too much. The commie tanker hats are kinda cool Are there civilian versions out there? I should get a greatcoat with it, too, but they're so [censored] heavy.

For lawyering work, I wear a hat only when going to my own office in rainy weather (at any other destination, it tends to be in the way), or at outdoor site inspections (when I wear what I would for outdoor casual activities). For other outdoor activities, weather & circumstances dictate choice of headwear. In hot weather a straw cowboy hat is shady & cool. In cooler weather, a full brim felt or canvas hat helps protect from the sun & rain. I prefer the felt scouter's hat with the full brim when outdoors. We also like chin straps when possible. I suppose I should also note that I have become somewhat folicly challenged. :-)<br><br>A ball cap ( & eye protection) is helpful when picking fruit from trees since it tends to keep branches out of the face without being knocked off by other branches. It is particularly compatible with a parka to keep sunlight/rain/ whatever off the face while wearing the hood over the head. It is also compatible with ear muff hearing protectors when shooting where it keeps both the elements & ejecta out of the face. :-)<br><br>My family just went to a large theme park. We memorized the dress of each member including the color of our ball caps to make sure we would not become lost from each other. I needn't have worried. Only about 5% of the patrons wore any headgear at all. Even then, wearing headgear ran in families. So our 4 blue caps all stayed in the same herd. :-)<br><br>Past experience indicated that 1 of the shows at the theme park would be noisy. So we all took our earplugs. A wise precaution. The whole park had become so noisy, that both my youngest son & I donned our earplugs 1/2 houjr into the park, & continued wearing them all day. Even my wife & older son wore them through the many extra-loud activities. Nearly all of the excessive noise was amplified; not natural. I suppose it was done out of a misguided intent to enhance excitement. And of course, we saw no one else using any form of hearing protection or complaining about the noise level (artificially amplified). Anyone been to a live music performance in the last 20-30 years? We are becoming a nation of the deaf. :-(( I am beginning to think that shooting with suitable hearing protection is often one of our quieter activities.<br><br>We are also a family of watch cap & parka wearers. By the way Tom, an orange watch cap stays permanently in my inside left pocket of my parka. :-)) I suspect the hunting-camping gene is linked to the watch cap wearing gene.<br><br>Dress among lawyers may be dichotomous. A minority are quite dapper. The vast majority tend to be some variation of a dressy comfortably casual. I tend to be at the far end of the very comfortably casual. :-) And other than in court, this sole practicioner can be very casual.

I guess I didn't understand the intent of your original question- I thought you kicked off the whole "hat" thing because you were anticipating a more challenging climate than SoCal. Now I have no idea what you're going for.<br><br>Ok, so I probably wouldn't wear a balaclava on Rodeo Drive either. Still, it's a helluva lot more likely that I'd wear a balaclava there (at least rolled into watchcap configuration) than I'd be carrying a firearm... and if I were carrying a firearm there, I'd have a LOT more on my mind than my hat.<br><br>If you're not facing weather more challenging than Hollywood's, it's not a survival issue. I still wouldn't consider wearing a Sovietski fur cap in Southern California any more than I'd wear Bermuda shorts in Antarctica, but if you want the thing, by all means buy it. It may put you solidly in heatstroke territory, but for all I know you may also be at the leading edge of raver fashion... or something.<br>

A balaklava is not a ski mask. Although it can be pulled up over the mouth, as usually worn, the full face is exposed and identity is not compromised. I rarely bother with mine in an urban environment - it prefers the deep woods and the high seas.

Buy the balaclava. You can roll it up to watch cap configuration for daily wear. There are several sources for the ALaskan Troopers hat as I prefer to call them; Cabellas, L.L. Bean etc.

OK I will probably get the Balaclava. I thought they only showed your eyes and nose.<br><br>Presumed Lost, why the presumption I go to rave parties?

A ski mask is a balaclava with the face covered except for eyes and mouth. Presumed Lost was only funnin' with you about the rave parties ;O) Actually, I did ride into one out in the desert. It was fun dancing until this girl borrowed my chemlights and photon ll. Do you have any idea how hard it is finding a horse in the dark, guided by a mere lifeboat match?

No offense intended, Skunkabilly- just trying to envision the circumstances in L.A. where a "commie tanker hat (complete with red star)" would be "kinda cool ", as you say. I think that lets out most of the Fourtune 500 corporate headquarters, elite country clubs, VFW meetings, or government jobs requiring a clearance...<br>

Much to my wife's chagrin, I usually where a baseball style cap. (Lately I have been wearing one with Owasippe Staff Association loge on it becasue I'm proud of what that organization stands for.) BTW, I wear it with the visor forward becasue it shields my eyes from the sun and my glasses from the light drizzle. I also like it in a heavy rain or the cold when I wear a hood. The bill on the visor helps push the side edges of the hood aside when looking right or left. Without it, my head swivels inside the hood, which limits my field of vision. And that can be a dangerous thing as I race across State Street to catch my bus! :-)<br><br>I have noticed more and more fellow commuters wearing caps these days, along with more relaxed casual dress. In fact, a business man in a drak blue suit really stands out like a sore thumb these days. I know some jobs or positions require such dress, but I'm glad I don't have to don that style anymore.

>>>Other than that, they let the sun burn the tops of your ears and the back of your neck. Useless.<<<<br><br>True. But in real sunny conditions I will drape a bandana across the back of my head and place the cap over it to keep it secure. If it's hot, I'll wet the bandana first plus wear a wet bandana around my neck.<br><br>I've looked at wide brimmed hats but haven't found one that caught my fancy. Perhaps I'm just too set in my ways. A baseball cap stays put when it's on, except in the stiffest of winds ... and I'm used to it.<br><br>I do wear the cap to work, but not in the office. I have surprised a few coworked if I run into them outside of the office on the way in. Not only do I wear the cap, but I've taken to wear my Suisse Spor jacket with the zip out poly liner, and a carry my stuff in small backpack instead of a briefcase or PC Shoulder bag. I used to use a shoulder bag, but the added weight on the one side started to cause cronic pain in that shoulder and the related knee (bad knees to begins with). Switching to bacpack eliminated that problem, and is much more comfortable to carry.<br><br>Not playing the dress up game may result in my losing social points in the coporate soap opera. But I know my job and do it well, and so far I have had the fortune of working with folks who value that over a sharp, stylish leather coat. (Of coarse, I do adopt the business dress code when appropriate, such as when there are board meeting or when a customer in in the office.)

>>in real sunny conditions I will drape a bandana across the back of my head and place the cap over it to keep it secure. If it's hot, I'll wet the bandana first plus wear a wet bandana around my neck<<<br><br>Uh… ok. To be honest, I think I could use similar work-arounds to justify wearing a fez, if I wanted to… but that doesn’t make it a wilderness hat. :-) <br><br>There are some advantages to a brimmed hat that are rarely mentioned. Obviously, they provide shade, and having a high and/or insulated (Tilley) crown shields the head from the beating sun (and there’s one advantage of a fez over a baseball cap, if you want :-)... but also a disadvantage of “boonie” hats). In cooler weather, though, the trapped air in the crown is insulation, and (with no wind, at least) the brim delays the rising flow of air warmed by the body so that it forms a thicker layer of warmth around the head and face, where most heat loss is. More than most designs, it tends to moderate both ways- much cooler than you’d be without it in the hot sun, warmer than you’d be without it in cold weather. Like a boonie, the sides of a Tilley snap up- sometimes useful to keep it clear of a slung rifle, often useful to clear hearing protectors when shooting- and the back of your neck doesn't get burned when shooting prone.<br><br>They do require a strap or cord for wind.. but if you’re someplace where you’ll be in real trouble without a hat (the desert, high country, or sailing), it had better have some sort of retainer whatever type you wear. The Tilley has an unusual arrangement that works, but takes some getting used to. When not needed, I just keep the cord velcroed up in the crown… there’s this little pocket.. it’s easier to see than describe.<br><br>In the end, hats are probably as personal as knives, and I doubt that we'll reach much more of a consensus.<br><br>My workplaces tend toward suits rather than leather jackets, and it’s very unusual to see a man in a suit with a hat these days, especially without an overcoat.<br><br>I’ve had no back or other problems with the shoulder pouch, wore it (well, one very like it) on a combined drive/subway/walk commute daily for two years. I usually leave it as a shoulder pouch for easy on/off, but this particular one does have straps behind a zippered panel to convert it to a light pack, if I’m facing real distance- like walking out of the city into the suburbs.<br><br>For short distances, I just sling it over the shoulder on the side it's riding on. For longer distances, I'll often sling it across my chest, which seems to balance better. I haven't had to use it as a pack yet.<br>

Has anyone tried the Tilley Tuckaway Cap?<br><br>http://www.tilley.com/shop3.asp?productno=TTC&detail=low&path=root\Tilley_Hats<br><br>It's shown in my latest Tilley catalog, and looks like it might be just what I'm looking for.

>>Has anyone tried the Tilley Tuckaway Cap?<<<br><br>Not I, sorry. <br><br>I see that they've come up with a number of new models since I looked at their catalog. Personally, I find the Lightweight LT3/LT6 intriguing. The higher crown of the LT6 should make the ventilation provided by the grommets more effective. The "supplex" (microfiber, I think) probably kills the need to stretch and re-shape them after washing, but I worry- a lot of synthetics reek once they get sweaty, and it never seems to go away no matter how much they're washed after that.<br><br>In my experience, it's almost impossible to destroy their hats. Eventually the edges of the brim start to fray a bit, and they do stain, but that just adds character. I finally ended up upgrading the last time just because they came out with the brims that are dark green on the underside, and that really does reduce glare. The previous well-traveled all-tan one is still in the closet. Both are T3s. I've been tempted to get an all-green (olive) T3 with the screens in the grommets for woodland trips, but I havn't broken down yet.<br><br>I wish I could say the same of their other gear, but most of it is not warrantied as the hats are, and my personal experience has been disappointing. I hope the hats keep up their previous standard of quality.<br><br>The cap you're looking at looks very much like a fishing cap a friend of mine bought a few years ago at REI, including the rear flap.. I'll have to ask her who the manufactuer was. Might have been Columbia, I know it's wasn't Tilley. She also owns a T4, which has a brim short on the sides and longer fore and aft.<br>

I have not tried the TuckAway hat. It looks like it might be a good idea.<br><br>I have 2 Tilley hats, a T3 and a T4. Both are excellent, but I much prefer the fit and sunshading of the T4. The curved brim, higher crown, and green underside brim of the T4 make it a much better hat, IMHO.<br><br>I added a 4 shoestring braid and threaded a Done Right spark rod on a small piece of wood to the braid. <br><br>These hats stay on with the chin strap arrangement, are great wetted to cool the brain, shed sun and rain, wear well, and look good. They even come with a loss "insurance" policy. <br><br>My overall experience with Tilley has been great.<br><br>I usually wear a hat everday. Winter a rollup wool felt Bailey, Filson packer for rain, or Alpaca Bolivian earflap stocking cap (always in my coat). Summer the Tilley or an Akubra straw hat.<br><br>I have been known to wear the alpaca hat under the Tilley when it is both cold and wet. Hey this gets noticed...not quite the Soviet Army Tanker in downtown LA, but close.

While we're on the subject- there's one "hat" situation that I've never really been able to work out..<br><br>Typically, when backpacking I'd like to be able to don and doff a hat quickly and easily, with changes in temperature, or sun, or just level of exercise. Especially when hauling a heavy pack up a mountain, away from direct sunlight, a hat serves no function and gets too hot very quickly.. but fifteen minutes later, back in the beating sun, I need it again. Without a pack, I can just hang it down my back with the cord around my neck (sometimes it's still too hot against my back, and the cord can get uncomfortable around my neck)- but what do you do with a hat you no longer want on your head when you're wearing a full-size pack? I certainly don't want to stop and take off the pack each time, nor do I really want to be constantly rolling it or wadding it up. Hanging it anywhere in front or to the side is in the way and catches on things. Nothing that I've tried so far has worked particularly well.<br><br>Has anyone come up with a good solution for this?

I really never take my hat off when I am outside. This is primarily due to my complete lack of a natural solar shield topside :)<br><br>However, I have had good luck using my packs top pocket for things I want as I am walking. I can reach back behind my head, unzip the top pocket and either grab small things or stuff things in. I need to pack the top pocket carefully so as to not lose small items. Usually I keep only my map and a bag of GORP here. I could easily stuff my hat up there if I felt I could survive the suns rays for greater than 5 minutes.

Thanks for the comments!<br><br>I've got a T3 with which I'm very pleased, and a T4 (I think - it's the smaller summer model). Very rugged, and just what I need for the British weather.<br><br>I usually wear a baseball cap; it keeps the rain off my glasses, it provides some shielding from annoying glare and it keeps my head a little warmer. The TTC looks like a nice alternative particularly for the summer.<br><br>A Tilley that can be stuffed in a pocket... mmm, my mouth is watering already! :-)

As I said, my friend has a T4. I sort of like the higher crown, but the low crown and side snaps on the brim of the T3 allow it to be used with hearing protectors for shooting. Maybe this is also a factor for pilots who use headphones, but I wouldn't know. The T3 also comes with the green underside of the brim now.<br><br>Her T4 is softer than my T3s somehow- the brim is not as tightly stitched, I think. I'm not sure whether I like that or not, I guess I'd have to use one awhile to know. I'd have been more interested in the T4 if it had snaps. The T4 does have the grommets higher, which makes sense to me.<br><br>As I said, I'm intrigued by the LT6, with my only reservation being the Supplex material. I'll probably end up buying one. Did you catch the note about new velcro tabs for those who stick their sunglasses through the grommets? I didn't think of doing that.<br><br>I agree in general about the Tilleys, mine have been the most valuable single piece of equipment (that got used, anyway) on several trips. They used to be sort of hard to find and distinctive, but now there are several imitations, and the marina shops are selling Tilleys and the imitations like hotcakes. <br><br>Still, the only low-status Tilley is one with bright, shiny snaps and grommets (you can tell it hasn't been anywhere). Annoyed by this with the first one I had, I started a ritual of ceremoniously dunking it in each major body of water I hit- several rivers, the Atlantic, the Pacific, and the Gulf with the first. Of course, that means that with each Tilley I buy I have to start all over again... he he...<br>

Hi!<br>Finally there is a question that I can answer too ;)<br><br>Usually I like too to don and doff the hat quickly, so if I wear a baseball cap I hang it or at my belt (or backpack's hipbelt) or lock between the pectoral belt and my chest.<br>If I have my aussie hat or my scout's hat I put it on the top of my pack where is a little nest (I can easily do this move without taking of f the backpack)<br><br>well, just my two cents (with the coming of the Euro I may use cents too ;)) )<br><br>mac

Rather than the extremely expensive Tilleys, I very much like the OR line of sombrero head gear - "Seattle Sombrero" is OR's way of designating a hat designed for rain. My favorite is the Sonora Sombrero - designed for protection from sun, but it does well in rain as well. It is supplex, has a chin cord, and the brim can be snapped (actually velcroed) up. It is light enough that when I don't want to wear it, which is rather rare, I just let it dangle from the chin cord. It is light enough that I can stash it in a pocket if I desire. It is thin, tough, and pliable, allowing it to be used for a pot grip, rappel padding, and the like. The only thing I don't like is the velcro "snap." In windy weather, the velcro will self attach, decreasing sun protection. I solve that by mating a small strip of velcro to disable the patch on the brim - works great. I have used the sameone for about eight years now, and it has developed lots of "character," but it will still launder clean. It doesn't smell bad to me.<br><br>I hope this discussion about hats doesn't turn into another coverup...

It's hard to find a horse in the middle of nowhere, but it's more hard to believe you let gone the girl ;)<br>Borrowing her your light isn't a sort of practical approach? :)<br>mac