Nickels may purchase less, but weigh more on a mugger's mind...just my $2 worth. I've also used a rolled-up newspaper as cause for indigestion in muggers.

I prefer cash.

I've always thought hoarding was waiting until there was a shortage of something then buying up any you can find usually, but not necessiarially to resell at a later date for profit. Say for example you lived in LA and shortly after the hurricane hit you drove around to every store and bought up all the water you could find.
Preparing or stocking up is done well in advance of any need of whatever you are stocking up on, for example having several gallons of water stored in your home at all times, not just after a disaster.
Though the .gov's definition may not agree with mine.

The big unknown is how long your need will last. So, by your definition, a "profiteer" is anyone who has more than they need when "it" is all over. But the question again is, how long will "it" last?
If you prepare to be self sufficient for 60 days and the calamity lasts 20, and there are those who did not prepare at all, are you still a profiteer? I think not.

Stock up to the point you feel safe and or comfortable, share what you can with those you choose to, and watch your back.

People, people people!!!

There is no such thing as hoarding or stockpiling. There is such a thing as free trade. Do you think big business doesn't keep a surplus of materials on a constant basis speculating the market? What do you think those big tanks are for? or those grain silos, or those huge quansit huts full of spuds and apples? Do you think they are gonna get punished if the market suddenly spikes and they make 2000% profit?

You are entitled to all you can afford. If the sign says limit 10, then I will buy ten if I think I will need that many, or I might be able to sell some for more than I paid for same. This is not a PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. state yet (at least not that bad a PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. state). Does a rancher need 2,000 head of cattle? Heck no, he may butcher one or two, then he will sell his surplus because that's what he does for a living. If I buy at a low price and sell at a higher price, I should be penalized for this? That's just plain hypocritical.

If you say that I can stockpile, but must give it up during emergencies, then why stockpile at all. Do you think the rancher is going to be willing to raise cattle knowing he may have to give up all that he can't personally consume if something bad happens? That's just plain ridiculous.

I grow weary of this mentality that says I have to give up what I work awful damn hard to acquire just because some bozo didn't think ahead a little and is suffering. If I have a surplus, I will be happy to share if I think it will not adversely affect me or mine, but it's gotta be my decision. Otherwise what's the point, we should just let the state take over and they will provide us with everything we need, right comrades?

Comrade Benjammin, of course we should let the state take over and supply us with everything we need. Look how effective it is in North Korea...that happy land of freedom and plenty.

As for reselling supplies in times of emergency, I don't have a problem with that. I might even do it myself, but I would not gouge my neighbours. Nor would I sell at my cost. Somewhere in there is a fair price, higher than market value prior to the event, but not so outrageous as to cause hardship.

> What or when do you consider hording as opposed to prepairing?

"Hoarding" to me implies an element of dog-in-the-manger. Not being able to use it yourself but still depriving others. It doesn't apply when the goods are plentiful because you not depriving others - then it is more like stock-piling. If you have a stock pile, the emergency happens, and you don't use it, I have to wonder what it was for.


> What would one consider minumin abount of cash to keep on person

Probably £50. In an urban setting, that is about enough to pay for a room for the night, and/or some cheap food and/or a taxi home and many other kinds of emergancy. I try to carry more than that.

On the topic of hoarding, I have a couple of parallel definitions:

--The procurement of supplies, usually in limited supply, that you have no-to-little likely need for and/or lack the proper understanding of thier usage to utilize them in a safe and effective method. I apply this to medication and anything with a very short storage life.

--Procuring supplies, in moderately lmiited quantity, in volumes that greatly exceed your resonable needs, and may hamper the abilities of others to be safe, without intention to redistribute without excessive profit. I would apply this to fuel during an evacuation, or to perishable food items in the "day after" phase.

This is different from stockpiling, which I apply to items with relatively great quanties during normal situations that are procureed in said normal situations, for your own purpose, to which I will include trade. That would be the guy who has eightteen jerry cans of gas and an Escort in his garage, and during an evacutaion, might trade some of the gas for, say, coffee or smokes. Or he's diggin in, and has a generator, or will be suppling fuel to his relief organzation. That I can deal with.

But if he leaves it behind in his garage becuase that is more gas than he has car, I'm not going to be terribly offended at a meeting between him and his bad karma. If I know it's in there, and he's bugged out, I'm not ashamed to say that I will return the cans to him, full, at a later date. Maybe by dropping them on his feet.

Profiteering is like hoarding, but you do it to take undue advantage of a crisis. For example, if the person in the above situation was charging 10 bucks a gallon, that would be profeteering.

Now, part of hoarding is the question of if it part of your normal supply. My grandfather carried a four tires, on rims, and something like six jerry cans of fuel in his truck, but he was a forester/naturalist before he retired. He just always had that with him. I can deal with that. But that also is part of what kind of person you are. In something like the Rita exodus, he might not have had much pity for someone out of gas who is driving a two-seat sports car that gets really lousy milage. But a station wagon full of kids... Yeah, he would have passed over at least a partial fuel can, and a couple gallons of water. In that situation, with that rig, I would to.

What really pisses me off, pardong my French, are people who buy pharmesuticals that are in limited supply, and don't need them, or they plan on self-diagnosing whatever illness they might be (semi-)specific for. Or selling for an insane profit. Those people, IMHO, are more likely to waste the drugs by using them inappropriately, frequently after storing them improperly, which frequently puts more load on the medical system. And they are taking a number of doses out of circulation that could have been used to contain an outbreak to the first couple of ttiers (I can't rememeber the proper term) of patients. As a result, I don't think any higher of them than I would someone who accidetnly released that infectious agent outside of a safegaurded area.

I don't know if this is an answer, or a theamatic rant. Probably both.

Mellow guys! This whole subject matter is very much a 'what if?' I tried to explain in my ajoining thread WE DON'T KNOW what society at large will define as hoarding, property rights etc. By their nature large disasters bring a breakdown and suspension in 'the norm' Elmer Fudd is always more appealing than Kim Jon Il on a Sunday morning.

Good point, Chris. We're asking us to think like "normal" people.

I know I can't do that. I have no doubt that most of us can't. That is why we are here- I don't like normal people, they are silly. I like this place, not as many silly people. Goofy, yes, but not silly, normal people.

The difference between hoarding and stockpiling is when you do it. Hoarding is when you buy up stuff that is in short supply, so that when you get yours, someone else gets none. Stockpiling (preparing) is when you buy far enough in advance of the shortage so that when you get yours, there is no shortage and everyone else can get some. Profiteering is when you sell your stockpile at greatly increased prices. Selling neighbor some diesel fuel or water is not profiteering when your price is about what you paid for it or at perhaps five percent markup for handling costs.