Doug and CK : Please comment on the following statements from an article by Anthony Acerrano in the May 2002 issue of Sports Afield. "you don't even need to boil water for 5 to 10 minutes, as once was believed. By the time water comes to a full roll, it has long passed the temperature needed to kill the bad bugs." "....halogens will not kill Cryptosporidium cysts..." A.A. also recomends a purifier : General Ecology First Need Deluxe. Opinion ? Directing these questions to the Dynamic Duo is not to be interpreted to exclude others. It's only that I am very, very interested in their comments. Thanks.

I will have to read the article. He may very well be correct, but my initial reaction is a big no. Water quality worldwide has suffered pollution from heavy metals, pesticides, fertilizers and bacterial "blooms". Some people scoff at mechanical filters as a marketing ploy "we strain the big stuff through our teeth with a iodine chaser grunt, grunt". I was under a doctor's care for giardia that ignored treatment for months. I boil and treat chemically AND use a mechanical filter if available.

Chris - I think I read the same article recently - I passed over it lightly because without definitive evidence I am not taking the "info" as accurate.<br><br>I have read many times for many years that giardia does not treat us all equally... empirical evidence at least suggests that a significant number of folks are not very susceptable to ill effects - but there are many variables (like concentration), so don't read too much into my statement.<br><br>Iodine has worked very well *for me* so far and I've been extended periods with some pretty crummy water. Chlorine has been successful in munincipal treatment practically forever (as those things go) - but without test kits in the field to verify a "safe" residual, I do not have the same degree of confidence. But it worked great - and I can say with certainty that the surface water that was treated with it was much worse then than it is today, at least where I live. I shudder at some of what is documented fact about what used to flow by here... and my memories of the same.<br><br>Filters can work also - I've employed large commercial (almost munincipal level) filters, and of course, ROWPU units (reverse osmosis). But I have no first hand experience with the portable filters, having only read the pros and cons over the years since they became widely available.<br><br>Boiling works great as far as I know. Went about a month on water that was so loaded with organics that it looked like dark tea - we boiled (wood fires) because we felt that chemical treatment would be iffy with all that organic matter to oxidize. No one got sick...<br><br>And I DO strain out the big chunks first! <grin> - but not with my teeth.<br><br>I look forward to hearing more about the claims made in that article - I'm a bit skeptical without proof.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

Water treatment is a little bit like snake bite cures. Since not everyone really gets sick, a lot of questionable methods seem to work, and thus acquire a lot of anecdotal support.<br><br>Boiling is the most definitive way of dealing with bacterial contamination, which is probably overall the greatest general problem. The old saw about 5 to 10 minute boiling has been refuted by James Wilkerson, MD, author of Mountaineering Medicine. The longer interval arose from the need to sterilize bandages, which does require the longer interval to deal with special septic bacteria which are a problem in that context.<br><br>It is of academic interest to note that there are extremophile bacteria that thrive, not just live, in boiling water, like the bacteria from Yellowstone NP that have proved so useful in PCR DNA studies. Luckily these bacteria don't give us gut feelings.<br><br>Thirty to forty years ago, I used to drink willy-nilly from all sorts of clear, sparkling mountain streams inthe SW. I never got sick. I am much more cautious now. Filters eem to work fine, meaning I have never gotten sick, with most sources. They are quick and convenient. Boiling has worked for me with such sources as water drawn from open irrigation ditches in SE China, so that is my preferred method - definitive and requires no extra equipment. The NPS put out a brochure on water treatment recently and they stated that boiling was the surest way to purify water. If you can't trust a ranger, who can you trust?<br><br>Some of the contaminants of concern, like heavy metals, probably aren't an issue unless you will use the water for an extended period of time, as opposed to a canteenful while passing through (unless arsenic is present!). I have used some very questionable sources, reasoning that the water might make me sick, but it will get me to town, where I can be cured. Dehydration can kill within hours; everything else is treatable.

You make some excellent points - everyone's needs are different, so my FAK will not necessarily be like your FAK. EMT training is an excellent idea, as is practical experience. I would only add that even better than service on an ambulance is time spent with your local SAR unit. If you live near the outdoors, you will learn a lot about survival, both directly and indirectly. You do things in the woods you would never consider when you are an ambulance ride away from the ER.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I would only add that even better than service on an ambulance is time spent with your local SAR unit. If you live near the outdoors, you will learn a lot about survival, both directly and indirectly. <p><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Very true and relevent! I am sure that you might learn as much by the example of those in need of rescue as by the experience of rescueing them. A SAR commitment might be somewhat more time demanding than a night / week on the local ambulance though.

OK I guess I should have asked:<br>What would you use acetemophin, ibuprofin and aspirin for? I leave them in my 1st aid kit...more for headaches during class or if I am stuck somewhere and driving home, the last thing I need is to be distracted. If I have no known allergies, are the 3 aforementioned drugs all in the same, is one better than the other, or should I carry all 3 for different purposes? I don't mind giving up space, and really they don't take up much. I just leave two pairs of each pills in a plastic container that is half the size of a film can.

Regarding the statements quoted:<br><br>"you don't even need to boil water for 5 to 10 minutes"<br><br>This is correct. It only needs to reach the boiling point. In fact it actually doesn't need to get that hot but that provides an easy to identify indication that it is hot enough. Nor do you have to "add a minute for every 1000 ft." as was once believed. These are all old wives tales.<br><br>"halogens will not kill Cryptosporidium cysts..." "<br><br>Correct, as noted at http://www.equipped.org/watrfood.htm#WaterPurification<br><br>First Need review is at http://www.equipped.org/watrfood.htm#GeneralEcology. Bit dated but the filter is still essentially the same. I used one for years. Downside is that it cannot be cleaned in the field. <br><br>General Ecology sells a kit with Potable Aqua and their filter. This isn't a bad combo for anyone and covers most all the bases. What most filters will not easily remove is chemical toxins. Even those with charcoal pre or post filters won't entirely clean up some toxins.<br><br>Bottom line is you do the best you can with the available resources and time, use common sense about sources, then drink. <br><br>

All three OTC pain-killers mentioned are roughly equal as pain-killers in my experience. They all have other and different secondary uses. Ibuprofin will work as a muscle relaxant which the other two won't. Aspirin will work as a blood thinner which is why many recommend it at first sign of a heart attack. If the heart attack is caused by an embolism then aspirin will potentially thin the blood enough to allow it past the embolism and save the threatened cardiac muscle. Aspirin will also lower Blood pressure. Acetominophin is an analgesic pure and simple. I find that all of these are synergistic with caffiene for minor head aches. (That may be due to my personal caffiene addiction ;^O).

Doug, CK, et al : Thanks for the excellent critique !!! _________________________________________________ Proverbs 21:19