Skunkabilly,<br><br><br>Personally, I carry Ibuprofen. As an OTC pain reliever/fever reducer/swelling reducer, it works great. Tylenol (acetomenifen sp?) has similar properties. Asprin does not reduce fevers or swelling and has the risk of thinning blood (which is why it's reccomended for heart attacks). I have no history of heart problems or high blood pressure, and I like the additional benefits of the other drugs, so I carry Ibuprofen. Why not the Tylenol? Ibuprofen is cheaper around here.<br><br>What do use it for? In the normal course of my life, I take it often (2-3 times per week). I work construction...lots of heavy lifting, bumps, bruises, contusions, strained/sprained this and that, the occasional laceration, etc... Sometimes taking something to take the edge off of one (or two, or three...) of those types of things is all that keeps me going. I also suffer from migraines, and while 800mg of Motrin doesn't solve one of those, it takes me from being completely unable to function (curled up on the floor, vomitting) to a very limited amount of function. <br><br>In a survival situation, I would take them for similar things. A clear head is the most important survival tool. It is hard to think and concentrate when you're hurting.<br><br><br>Andy

Here's a relevent article on Giardia.<br><br> Giardia

Informative article on giardia lamblia... made sense to me. His conclusions tallied with what I *thought* I knew, but he's done properly documented research, which makes it very useful to me. The "hot water" specifics were especially interesting (Chris and Doug are right, no surprise), and something I was interested in knowing more about. Thanks for the link. <br><br>I recently read an additional bit of giardia trivia - it may have been here - that I have not verified: Supposedly giardia cysts are sufficiently denser than fresh water that they rapidly sink in deep unroiled clear water - the article snippet was about drinking lake water in the Boundary Waters, IIRC. Hmmm. We had to chop thru the ice for water the last time I was there (wintertime) and I'm certain that a lot of folks who ply those waters (thawed or frozen) are not "good" about human waste management. Yet common practice seems to be drawing the water from the lakes and simply using it. Any microbiologists here that can comment? <br><br>Now for a similar article about our other major protozoan buddy, cryptosporodium parvum... anyone find a good one yet? I've only made a cursory check so far and am faintly skeptical of the utility of most of what I glanced at. There was one Canadian article that was pretty good -"realistically cautious" is how I would characterize it - but it didn't credit any scientific sources. The rest of what I've glanced at is pretty focused on munincipal / residential type situations (science + technology + legal = paranoia) or "you should buy our product because..." <br><br>I did find ample scientific evidence regarding the futility of using chlorine alone, but zip nada nothing scientific about iodine. CDC says that iodine will work, but it takes 15 hours to be certain against Crypto. parvum. Chlorine dioxide (AquaMira) is claimed to be effective, but again, I've not seen hard evidence yet. Am very interested in learning more about crypto. p. as it pertains to our main interests here (survival) and more directly, to travel away from the munincipal spigot... if anyone finds noteworthy info, please share!<br><br>Both these beasties (and other critters) bring me back to an earlier question - has anyone been using Chlor-floc? I'm guessing that works by floculating most (all?) the suspended solids - specifically including the bugs - and then chlorinating the super natent. Regardless, does anyone know how effective that approach is?<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

Minime <br>I would like to correct some of the facts about ibuprofen. It does not have any muslce relaxant properties. It is in the same class as aspirin. I terms of efficacy aspirin and acetaminophen (paracetamol) are about equal, Ibuprofen is slightly stronger than the other two. Naproxen Sodium 275mg is next better then come the analgesic combinations.<br>Paracetamol + orphenadrine - has muscle relaxant properties<br>Paracetamol + codiene - stronger than paracetamol alone (8 mg codiene)<br>Vicodine is probably stronger than Para+codiene<br>Tramadol has the efficacy of intramuscular pethidine<br>then come the injectables - pethidine and morphine (which are carried only by medical personnel )<br><br>Another thing about aspirin. If you are having severe angina and on the verge of a heart attack, 3 sublingual aspirin 100mg will help to reduce the effects of the clot on completely occluding your affected coronary vessel. Of course if you don't get to a medical facility thereafter, well, your luck might just run out.<br>

Beachdoc are you still with us? Cryptosporidium seems to be the latest wilderness bogeyman ( supplanting lymne disease and Susquatch.) I have to wonder if we are also handicapping ourselves from the outset. It's a given most people are in a state of dehydration in daily life. Caffeins, sugars ( all the good stuff ;O) are often actually detrimental. It is no accident that a cultured yogurt after intestinal illness quickly restores our gut flora. We need to learn more!

Paracetamol / acetaminophen / paracetamol is a safe antipyretic and antiemetic.<br>The dose which will cause toxic liver damage in an adult is >10000 mg (>20 500mg tablets).<br>This is was beyond what the recommended daily dosages are.<br>Paracetamol overdose can cause fulminant liver failure in an overdose but there is an antidote - N-acetylcystine. This of course has to be given ASAP.<br><br>So just stick to the recommended dosing and you won't go far wrong.<br><br>However, even prolonged use of aspirin and ibuprofen at the recommended dosages can lead to gastritis / gastric erosions and even gastric perforation. This is because of the continued effect of inhibiting one of the enzymes which plays a part in the gastroprotective mucus secretion in the GIT. <br><br>SO long term uses of NSAIDS also has its inherent risks.. :-)<br><br>

It seems the question began with essentially over the counter pain meds. Knowing what are appropriate and for who and when is the critical question. Knowing a few pain reducing measures is also helpfull. Applying heat or cold, massaging or elevating the injury and some acupuncture pressure points are non invasive options. Limiting material options to a single PSK led me to early adopt a two box system. One is solely devoted to first aid. I can access it instead of digging through sparklites and condoms for a bandaid while bleeding to death, and carry substantially more. Carrying two in opposite pockets also helps keep me from drifting to the left of a compass bearing ;O)

Thanks for the correction on the activity of ibuprofen. I went to look up better details and found this very interesting link on which drugs do what.

For a really novel (urban survival in So Cal???) approach, see this link. (I recall that c. parvum is supposedly hard to kill with short exposure time to UV due to shell thickness).<br><br>I found mixed claims about chlorine dioxide (AquaMira) VS c. parvum, so caveat emptor as always.<br><br>Having a devil of a time getting useful info about Chlor-Floc - I guess the issue "emergency kit" includes a reusable mixing bag/bladder and a reusable filter. If, as the name implies, the chemical disinfectant is chlorine, surely it is pH / temperature dependant??? Wierder yet, the current military pubs I've looked at that mention Chlor-Floc are still listing iodine as the prefered chemical treatment (at the individual level)... Chemical name for it is sodium dichloro-isocyanurate - sounds like a powdered superglue with chlorine <grin>.<br><br>BTW, boiling does not render water safe for storage, but only for relatively immediate use - many bacterial spores survive boiling (not a problem to drink them, but if the water sits for days, I guess they can eventually re-infect the water...?)<br><br>Oh - another bit of trivia I found is that many individuals seem to become "immune" to c. parvum, but the mechanism is not established yet. Also, many folks are asymptomatic, just like with giardia. Not everyone gets sick... in fact, some studies suggest that most of us won't get sick, or only slightly. No comfort to those who have died from it, of course.<br><br>When I was in a 3rd world country during a bit of civil disorder, the MSF folks and others told me that more people were dying from the effects of diharea (mainly dehydration) than starvation - bad water and/or hygene. I've often recalled that and near as I can tell, there's quite a body of evidence that supports that claim.<br><br>Now, if I could only fit a PUR in my PSK... nah. I'll stick to iodine for now. I must admit tho, that the c. parvum info is making me at least consider a filter for planned trips. Look forward to reading whatever additional info folks dig up on the topic.

Doug - a quick question: Are filter units (esp. thinking about ceramic filters) in any danger of being damaged by freezing? Not idle curiousity; I've often wondered what happens. Say I use a filter to replenish my water bottles and then stow it in my pack - in sub-freezing conditions. Filter elements would be wet from use. When the unit freezes, 1) is there any damage to the filter from expansion 2) next time I use the filter, is it going to be a pain to move water thru it until the durn thing "warms up" to the water temp or...??? Thanks in advance.<br><br>Tom