Hi all,

I'm new to the forum/site but have already learned a great deal from you. Thanks!

I think of the Rule of 3s and other survival tips that relate to thermo-regulation and I wonder what's truly the best option for a survival shelter. As I researched that question I stumbled across something that is apparently popular among hikers and mountain rescue teams in Europe... the Bothy Bag.

While virtually unheard of here in the states, it seems to make a lot of sense to me. It's basically a treated nylon bag designed for 2 or more people to hunker down inside of during bad weather/cold. Most of these shapeless bags seem to have windows, vents, and weigh in under 1.4lbs (!) for the 4-man variety.

After some research I came up with the following links:

KISU Shelters
Vango (Force Ten) - Storm Shelter Page
Terra Nova - Bothy Bags Page
Outdoor Designs - Standard Shelter
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And here is an interesting article extolling the virtues of the Bothy Bag for true survival. I found the points quite compelling...
Short Article

To summarize what I've found out about these things...
* MUCH warmer than tarps or tubes
* Drier than tarps or tubes in storms
* Cheaper than most Sil-Nylon tarps (avg. $65 for 4-man)
* High Visibility colors (plus reflective tape on Vango model)
* As lightweight as the the high-end tarps and MUCH lighter than large plastic tarps
* Better for morale than tubes or bivy bags (family together)
* Can share light/heat/radio (family together)
* MUCH easier to set up than tarps (drop and sit)
* Can be used anywhere (no trees or poles needed)

The one drawback? If it's hot do I really want to be in a bag? Nope, that's where the trusty RSK/SAK comes in. If you slit a side you still have a tarp! And you slit the sewn-in drawstring channel to create tie-down/grommet points all along the perimeter.

The Robinson Crusoe side of me envisions sitting on a beach drinking coconuts under a tarp while waiting to be rescued. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> But the more I think about it, any REAL survival setting where I need shelter from wind/cold/rain to keep my family alive, the Bothy Bag seems to make a lot of sense.

Thoughts?

MedB

I have never heard of these. I looked at all of the sites you listed. It mentions a seat... is sitting in it the only option? That could get tiresome in a 24-hr or 3-day storm.

Looking at the photos and reading the description of contents, it looks like the people inside are the only means of support of the fabric. If so, wouldn't it be kind of cold with the fabric right on your back?

It looks pretty viable for emergency shelter, but I would still like some form of support so you could move around a bit.

Anyone out there with firsthand knowledge of use?

Sue

Thank-you for the links, it's always interesting reading about alternative shelter approaches!

This reminds me of the Norwegian "Fjellduken" that was discussed here in this thread last year.

For strictly emergency use for teams in extreme alpine conditions, the botha bag would be good, but the fjellduken seems to offer a bit more flexible opportunities for use...

I'd say the idea is theoretically practical, with a couple minor drawbacks.

First, it is just bulky enough that a group is only going to want to pack one of these things. If the one happens to be too small for a particular crowd, someone is going to be "left out in the cold".

Second, if the group should be somehow divided, the lucky one who is packing the shelter may be the only one to benefit from it. Thus it would be prudent for each member of an expedition to pack one. This presents obvious drawbacks, and tends to negate the advantages over a singular, semi-modular bivy bag package. Theoretically, each member of an expedition could pack their own bivy, and one member pack a botha bag big enough for the entire group to occupy. Practically, I don't want to put anything more in my pack than I will need on my own. Some items you have to, but if it is a case of redundancy such as this, I would likely pack just the bivy and chuck the botha, or else con someone else into packing it.

It looks to be a suitable survival shelter for its intended purpose.

Thanks for the feedback.

As I read the responses, it struck me that "survival" means different things to different folks. So let me clarify my situation...

Wife, 2 kids (8 and 10), most of our outdoor activities are limited to bike paths, soccer games, fishing spots just a short walk from paved roads, and campground camping. In our youth we tent camped, but today there is no way my wife is going to let me keep a real tent, 4 sleeping bags, etc in her van all the time. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

So my version of survival readiness is really more around a "72 hour pack" I will keep in my wife's van in case of disasters etc since she usually is driving the kids around. To that end, it needs to be light (under 20 lbs) in case she/we have to leave the vehicle and walk. And I can't see my kids carrying packs of gear outside of a fanny pack-based, kid-centric PSK with water. And we live in New England. So...

I had envisioned keeping 4 of the hooded heavy space blanket/ponchos in the pack along with the Bothy Bag. They are all lightweight, serve double-duty roles and with the help of some heat packs, hopefully fight off the chill for a night.

Also the Bothy is something my wife could set up in any situation/location. Is it comfy? Nope. But I'm not looking for long-term survival in the backcountry. It's about keeping my kids warm and surviving the night till help comes. The added bonus is that we are all together which I think is big morale booster.

Lastly, and it is last, is price. For our lifestyle this is all gear we will never use... hopefully. Spending $800 to $1200 on 3 specialized hunting bags is not something I can justify. I love buying the best (ask me about my $700 audio cables sometime!) but I need to justify those purchased by knowing how often I wil use/enjoy them. Spending $65 or so on something I will never take out of the bag IS something I am ok with.

Hopefully that all makes sense and thanks again for the feedback and keep it coming.

MedB

Give it a test run before packing it in the van. One of the main selling points is its impermeability. IMO that would be its main drawback. The confined space means you will be in contact with the bag. Any condensation will be transfered to your clothing. Spending anytime in a waterproof enclosed area and you will be soaked.

Survival bags were a response to the needs of mountaineers and UK hikers, particularly in the Scottish Highlands. Single person units are available, but the multi person units work far better. As a sad example research the sinking of the argentine cruiser General Belgrano during the Falklands conflict. Rescuers found many liferafts with full complements alive. liferafts holding only a few were all found deceased from hypothermia. As stated, the units provide protection from wind and rain chill. The only insulation will be your own body heat and clothing. Fjelldukens are well made units. They are also extremely expensive and the swedish makers presently disinterested in marketing any outside of Europe. These are vastly superior to squatting in a military poncho with a candle between your legs! As a note: bothy is gaelic for a intimate rustic location of poteen drinking and listening to music. Think Star Wars Cantina or the tavern in LOTR. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Read the links. The units have venting systems; usefull for moisture and fresh air.

MedB, you mention campground camping. What do you use there? What kind of a situation are you envisioning that you would need the bothy bag?

Sue

It sounds like it really is a situational issue. A group bag will work fine so long as you are able to get in it. There've been times when we discovered a little too late that not everyone would fit under the tent fly. Guess who drew the long straw. I would've prefered at that point to have packed an individual shelter instead of hodding that fly for everyone else to enjoy, while I sat up in the rain all night. Sometimes it sucks to be the biggest guy.

The simple mylar bags like Coughlan are not worth comparing to the Bothy. Bivy shelters (more like individual pack tents) aren't what I had in mind, my apologies for not delineating earlier. What I am looking at is the $30 Adventure Medical bivy bag that is also vented, but has far superior construction than the mylar junk. The Land Shark system looks even better, and for $60 is probably as good as you can get, short of an "Enviro" suit.

I'm not gonna dis the Bothy, but realize that they have some limitations as well. If I am looking for something to throw in the boot of the car for the whole family to use, I will pack a tent instead. If I am tethered to a party crossing a glacier and a storm hits, then the right size bothy bag is going to be mighty desirable. If I am out hunting elk or looking for a new cave entrance, I will take a bivy bag.