When the SHTF what would be the point to point communications routine. I am going to assume HAM. Won't be able to rely on cellular phones, Dial up, or internet. @ cans and a string won't go very far, so....
Assuming it is HAM, I have a few questions.

Eliminate repeaters that are currently in existance as batterries will eventually go dead. What band is going to be best?

What radio manufacturer seems to make the best equipment?

Are there models that are fairly portable that cover more than one band, or is a seperate unit required for each band?

Since someone will eventually setup a repeater in the aftermath what would the most likely choice of bands be?

What band in the most portabel size unit allows for the longest distance communictions?

I have noticed that marine band radios usually have higher wattage output, is this a fair alternative?

Thanks

Assuming that you want to be able to talk more than 10 miles all by yourself (no repeaters), the only way is to go HF. Currently, that means learning morse code as well as all of the technical stuff. As far as radios go, you can use a $50 kit and a long wire, or you can dump $10,000 on a radio and a $300 beam antenna on top of a $500 tower. There are a lot of options open.

A single-frequency low-power CW rig can be built for $40 (rockmite). A fairly neat four-band CW radio about the size of a paperback novel can be built for $300 (Elecraft KX-1). These are probably the best for portable battery-powered work. Check out Elecraft's other stuff.

The biggest manufacturers of radios are: Kenwood, Icom, and Yaesu. Ten-Tec also commands a certain amount of respect, and are USA-made.

Check out the following web sites:
www.eham.net
www.arrl.org
www.qrz.com
www.gigaparts.com
www.aesham.com

Have fun!

KG4ZUD

I would say that HAM is not going to be as common as GMRS, or even FRS.

Your assumption on eliminating repeaters is unrealistic. Yes, some will go down, but more and more are running with photovoltaic backup. I've put up half a dozen commercial repeaters alone that use this configuration. In fact, some don't have any utility connection at all.

GMRS radios encompass the popular FRS band, which includes all those Costco $50 specials. Part of the GMRS band includes repeater operations. Unlike HAM, GMRS licensing does not require any technical/operating proficiency testing.

FRS/GMRS is in the UHF part of the spectrum.

The vast majority of Ham ops above HF is in the two meter range.

7 Mhz seems to be the most crowded area in the HF region.

VHF Marine portable radios are rated similar to two meter portables for output.

For the money, if you want a decent back up comms system, get GMRS.

For those of us outside of the US, what is FRS & GMRS

As for me, I use UHF Handhend CB's as my primary radio to grab.
I have 2 high quality handhends which transmit on 1w/5w with extra antanne and conections etc. and I have some cheap handhelds for local comms.
I have a couple of 27Mhz CB radios as well if I need extra distance, but they aren't as common around here now.
I also have access to some Ham gear at friends if I need it, but I am not licenced.

Hi Bravo25 and welcome to ETS,
I would honestly say that HAM radio is your best bet BY FAR. To get your Technician license is a simple test (no Morse code) and then you can use all the VHF and UHF frequencies. 2 meters is especially useful in emergency situations for "local" communications. Hams plan for disasters and loss of power and many 2 meter repeaters are able to use alternate power. Here is Arizona, we can talk on 2 meters across much of the state because of the mountain top reapeaters. Also, a 2 meter handi-talkie is realatively cheap--net units available for slightly over $100. A very good choice is the ICOM IC-V8 that has 5.5 watts output, is very rugged and covers the weather channels also. (Just an example). The cost about $130.
But seriously, check out ham radio. I think you will find what you need.
Ford

FRS = Family Radio Service (no FCC license needed)
GMRS = General Mobile Radio Service (one license covers all immediate family members)

They are in the 462/467 Mhz range

Fordwillman,

To be more precise, with a technician license you will be able to use all the available Ham frequencies in VHF and UHF. You will still need a license to operate on GMRS, which is likely where most of the traffic is going to be locally.

In my experience, Ham VHF (2 meters) is the most populated band for local traffic and has the greatest number of available repeaters for a given area. This is in my mostly rural area back home, and I am sure for more metropolitan areas, other bands, UHF especially, will see more use.

In comparison to Ham use, I would estimate GMRS/FRS to have roughly ten to 30 times more users for a given area. If GMRS repeaters are operating, expect the usage to be on the higher end of that estimate.

It used to be that Ham repeater owners were about the only ones who equipped their sites with alternative power in the event of utility failure. Over the last decade I've seen many more GMRS and commercial repeaters go to photovoltaic as either backup sources or as primary power. What used to be considered a luxury became somewhat a standard in a very short time.

We have a pretty good Ham network on two meters throughout the Pacific Northwest now. You'd be hard pressed to find a location anywhere in Washington state you can't get on an "Intertie" one way or another. There's even some redundancy built into the network, so if you do go Ham, chances are you can talk to other Hams across the region, wherever you may be. I don't know of any GMRS repeaters in a network, and likely the licensing restricts such operations. The nice thing about GMRS is they can be had for as little as $60 or so a piece, ready to go, with concurrent coverage on FRS operations as well. For a more complete description of what GMRS and FRS are, I suggest checking out the FCC website.

You can find some fairly nice and rugged used VHF radios for Ham radio. Some are progammable, some are fixed frequency. Being the tech that I am, I like a little bit of both, sometimes because I like to tinker and sometimes because I like the coolest latest gadgets out there. I've seen it all, from old tube jobs with dynomotors up to the latest programmable solid state smd "all bands" techno nightmares. My prediction is in 10 years we will all be talking to one another and share our MP3 files and such using unlicensed wrist mounted pda phones on SHF frequency bands talking to network nodes on a thousand low orbit satellites circling the globe.

Anyone wanna bet against that?

OK - which band is best (no repeaters - even though many of our locals will have power for a LONG time - emergency generators are good)

It depends on HOW FAR you want to talk - 5-10 miles, your still talking VHF/UHF - a bit further - 6m is good, but not that many people on it. Beyond that? your talking 80m or 40m HF rigs - preferably setup with an NVIS antenna - now your into antennas that are 66-120 feet long, mounted about 5-10 ft off the ground, and a "Non trivial" skill set

As portable repeaters come in, they will amost definately be either 2m, or 70cm(440Mhz) band - and in fact, the first may be "cross band" where the input is in 2m and the output on 440Mhz (or the other way around)

Ham radio HTs typically are 5-6 watts, and Mobile units are typically 50watts in VHF (2m) and 35watts UHF (440Mhz), however, they are easilly available up to around 110 watts

If you want to know what is going on with Ham radio and disaster Comms in YOUR area, look up your local Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES) or Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service (RACES) group, and ask and learn

And I'll pass on this piece of advice that one of my Elmers (Ham Radio Mentor) gave me "Don't sweat your first VHF/UHF radio too much - you'll probably go through a bunch finding out what you like - buying/selling/trading" Boy was he right - I think I have 18 of them at the current time

What do the knowledgable ham folks think about the new 31 baud PSK31 mode for emergency communications? It operates about as fast as you can type and supposedly operates over long distances at low power. Here's a quote from an online emergency communications study guide at http://wcarc.ws/emcomm.pdf :



Sounds pretty interesting!
Thanks, Steve

Not necessarily. While some don't have good battery backup (for example, in NJ Cherryville has a MASSIVE battery bank) many ham radio repeaters are based in emergency ops centers which have good backup power.


I like Kenwood the most. That's just me.

There are many, many multi-band radios, from handheld to in-vehicle.


2Meter (144 Mhz)
440 Mhz
Possibly 6 meter (50 Mhz)
HF bands of various flavors.


A portable AM SSB High Frequency portable will really get out.



Not really, that's a 160 Mhz, similar enough to 2M ham...

PSK31 has been around a few years now. It is slow, but seems reliable enough. What really need is a linear FM system that will allow us to transmit hi-fidelity and ultrasonic audio over a carrier using less than 5 Khz of deviation bandwidth. Then we can really send data quickly.

That ought to spin the heads on a few of our techies here!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

The question that I don't see anyone asking so far is:

Who do you need to communicate with?

If it's just intra-group tactical communications, your best bet is probably GMRS. An $80 license fee covers your entire immediate family for five years, and enables you to transmit up to 50 W on UHF, with the ability to set up a repeater.

If it's extra-group health & welfare traffic, you'll want a General Class Amateur license (Morse Code currently still required, but it's only 5 words/min, pretty easy with a little bit of study, and fun, too) so you can participate in the 80 m and 40 m HF bands, where most of this traffic takes place.

If it's simply listening for info, a good AM/FM/TV/WX receiver is what you want. There are many options here.

If it's keeping tabs on the local public service operations, you'll need a scanner with trunking capabilities.

For GMRS, don't bother with the garden-variety big box store radios. Go visit a real land-mobile radio dealer, and go for the commercial quality stuff.

For Amateur Radio, well, there are as many options as there are hams!

Also, marine radios are generally only legal for use while on the water and underway, with the exception of those that are also usable on Amateur frequencies (for which you also need a license).

Ignorant hypothetical question from a non-radio person, but if I were floating down a street in the Ninth Ward of NO looking for survivors in my boat, would that be a legal use of the marine band even though I'm actually in a city? I know, a rather irrelevant technicality in such a situation, but I was just wondering about the general legality.

And if I were stuck on a flooded rooftop in NO (without a cell phone) with Coast Guard and National Guard helos flying overhead, which would they be most likely/able to hear: my FRS, GMRS, HT, or marine radio distress call? I know, I could wave my arms and such, but that's so primitive. I mean, there's no gear involved! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Elevating a notch above the primitive, while meeting the need to use "gear," how about fashioning semaphore flags from your boxers to signal the Coast Guard. Added benefit: the pleasure derived from improvising gear on-the-run. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

But do you really want to be on international news without your skivies on? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

That may be fine for the Coasties, but would the National Guard crews know semaphore? No? Dagnabbit, who's in charge of training our military these days?! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sec. 80.311 Authority for distress transmission.

A mobile station in distress may use any means at its disposal to
attract attention, make known its position, and obtain help. A distress
call and message, however, must be transmitted only on the authority of
the master or person responsible for the mobile station. No person shall
knowingly transmit, or cause to be transmitted, any false or fraudulent
signal of distress or related communication.

Sec. 80.89 Unauthorized transmissions.
Stations must not:
-- snipped--
d) When using telephony, transmit signals or communications not
addressed to a particular station or stations. This provision does not
apply to the transmission of distress, alarm, urgency, or safety signals
or messages, or to test transmissions.
-- snipped --
(f) Transmit while on board vessels located on land unless
authorized under a public coast station license. -- snipped rest of f ---

Sec. 80.177 When operator license is not required.
-- snipped --
(5) A ship station operating in the VHF band on board a ship
voluntarily equipped with radio and sailing on a domestic voyage.

Sec. 80.115 Operational conditions for use of associated ship units.
(a) Associated ship units may be operated under a ship station
authorization. Use of an associated ship unit is restricted as follows;
(1) It must only be operated on the safety and calling frequency
156.800 MHz or on commercial or noncommercial VHF intership frequencies
appropriate to the class of ship station with which it is associated.
(2) Except for safety purposes, it must only be used to communicate
with the ship station with which it is associated or with associated
ship units of the same ship station. Such associated ship units may not
be used from shore.
-- snipped --
(b) State or local government vehicles used to tow vessels involved
in search and rescue operations are authorized to operate on maritime
mobile frequencies as associated ship units. Such operations must be in
accordance with paragraph (a) of this section, except that the
associated ship unit: May be operated from shore; may use Distress,
Safety and Calling, Intership Safety, Liaison, U.S. Coast Guard, or
Maritime Control VHF intership frequencies; and may have a transmitter
power of 25 watts.


==========================================

From what I read, if it's an emergency, no problem. This goes for all radio services. You can run into trouble if after you've been recognized and someone has taken your information, if you keep transmitting and interfering.

As for your scenario, I could not find an adequate notion of where the maritime service is located. It may be in another part of the FCC code. Martime Radio Service is defined in Part 80. There is no clear description of what "land" is. I expected something like "mean high tide" or something. I looked at this, for curiosity sake for myself, over 30 minutes.

I assume that's a good assumption.



Most of the repeaters in my area have diesel generator back up that's _supposed_ to be good for three days. shrug. Who knows. In my area, most hams have 2M/70cm handhelds and many have mobile radios that use one of those bands. Most hams here are techs who can't use HF frenquencies. I'd suggest talking to local hams and seeing what they use.



You won't go wrong with a radio from Icom, Kenwood, or Yaesu. Alinco makes cheaper radios, and you could consider one of them as a 'loseable' radio.



The three makers I mention above all make dual and tri-band handheld radios. Whether you get any benefit from whatever the third band is depends on what hams are doing in your area. My suggestion is to stick with a dual band 2M/70cm handheld, and be sure you can use it with AAs.



Same: 2M/70cm.



That's too dependent on local geography. _Generally_, 2 meters will carry further than 70cm, but you don't want to count on my generalization. Check with hams in your area.


My first question is, who would be listening? Not many people in my neighborhood, I fear. My next question is, in a handheld? Generally, handhelds have a maximum of 5 or 6 watts. It's a question of battery life.

Phil

Thanks for looking that up, ki4buc.

It still does seem very murky, though. For example, if I boat into the flooded neighborhood and use a marine handheld to communicate with another small boat several blocks away, I'm neither in distress nor trying to make my position known (to be rescued, that is).

Then the whole definition of "land" and "on shore" is also murky. If I'm in my boat in the middle of whatever-street, is that "on the water" but if I step into a house (perhaps directly onto the second floor!), is that "on shore"? Dunno.

Anyway, just a legal curiosity. I'd be happy just to have the boat in that situation. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bear in mind that while in an "emergency", any means of contact is OK, the definition of "emergency" may not be what you think it is. The standard is usually "imminent danger to life", or similar. Being stuck in your attic in the middle of standing water does not necessarily meet this criterium. Think of it this way, if the situation would not justify sending "SOS" or "Mayday", it probably doesn't really qualify as an "emergency", per se, for these purposes.

As long as the boat is afloat and under way, normal communications are authorized.

The Coast Guard is most likely to hear you on Marine frequencies (156.80 MHz, 2182 KHz GMDSS) National Guard, I'm not sure, but I'm beginning to think we need to establish a new inter-service emergency frequency.

Here's an interesting question...if you're in the middle of an emergency situation like the aftermath of Katrina, are the relevant agencies required to give priority to 406 MHz and 121.5 MHz distress calls? If so, I can imagine a run on PLBs and EPIRBs, causing massive disruption of rescue efforts in any similar situation. Has anyone even thought of this before?

Developers could include them with every new house and you could just roll the cost over into your new mortgage. Sweet, a tax advantaged way to buy more survival gear! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A backup generator doesn't do much good if it's under water. Some of the new Honda generators are more than enough to run a 100 W mobile station and portable enough to be moved up to the higher stories of a building, if need be. Of course, running a gas-fired generator inside a building is a questionable practice...



Or something like the Yaesu FT-817ND, which will work all-band, all-mode, and isn't much more difficult to transport than the average HT, plus it still runs off of AAs in a pinch, even at 5 watts. Most HT's won't run full power on AAs--they usually automatically turn down to 2 W, 1.5 W, or even .5 or .3 W when running on AAs. The 817 goes automatically to 2.5 W, but can be manually reset to 5 W.

5 Watts will kill your batteries pretty quick.

While in a flooded state, with levees breached, has the flooded area technically become part of the adjoining body of water, however temporary, under the legal definition of avulsion? Or does that apply only to streams/rivers, and/or require a long term change?

In practical terms the ham bands are self-policing. If you do something against the rules, hams will ask you to cut it out. The FCC will generally only get involved if you persist and there are complaints, or if you're causing massive interference (crap equipment spewing RF all over). In some NO-type of situation there's not likely to be any repercussions from using whatever equipment you have available. That said, the question of who exactly you hope to communicate with is important.

I'd say if you want to go the ham route, do it the right way, get a license and get on the air and get familiar with proper on-air procedures. Hams have organized networks for getting emergency traffic out of disaster areas but participation requires knowing what you're doing. You can join RACES (Radio Amateur Civil Emergency Service) etc. and get involved with preparation and operation, which is much more proactive than just having some rig in the closet and trying to figure out how to use it if the SHTF hoping someone is at the other end.

Arney,

Boat to boat, if you are able to move around, you should be fine. On land, if you are not in an emergency or responding to one, don't transmit. If you get a call from someone in an emergency, and you respond, then that would be allowed, because you are now involved in the emergency.

If you don't have an emergency, and aren't responding to one, then don't make unauthorized transmissions. That is pretty clear cut.

Maybe instead of all this radio license concern, if you want positive communication, get a sat phone and talk from virtually anywhere. We use them here in Baghdad when ALL our other comms go down. They never fail, so long as the unit is juiced and maintained.

Judging from J Park III, they will even survive the digestive processes of dinosaurs. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Immediate family members, and emergency personel.

Well, then, the question then becomes:

How far away are your immediate family members, and/or how far away are they likely to be at the onset of an emergency?

In my own case, due to the nature of my business as a technology consultant, it is likely that I could be anywhere up to 60 miles (or 2 hours) away from my residence on any given day. Secondly, the only family I have nearby is my sister-in-law and her (soon-to-be) husband. The rest of our families generally live about 60-100 miles away.

For the immediate local needs of a single family, GMRS is probably the best option. In our case, two GMRS licenses would cover both households.

If we wanted to communicate with the rest of the extended family, Amateur HF bands would be the best option, probably 40 or 80 meters on an NVIS antenna (read, antenna that's not high/big enough to go around the world). A good NVIS system on those bands should give reliable communications out to 300-500 miles. Amateur Radio would also be my best means of contact while on the job. While 60 miles is a bit of a stretch for simplex comunications, if a suitable repeater is available (not something to be counted upon in an emergency situation), 30 miles each way should be no problem for either UHF or VHF communications. My mobile rig is a Yaesu FT-100, so HF is also an option.

The biggest problem I'm having with all this right now is convincing my wife to study for and obtain a Technician Class license, and of course no other family members other than my wife's grandfather seem to have any interest in Amateur Radio. This is one of the reasons why GMRS is such a good option--it doesn't require wrangling other family members into sitting for examinations! With the 50 W GMRS limit, 60 miles might be do-able with a good antenna system or through a repeater (not sure of any in my area), but even a 5 W HT will cover our whole town without breaking a sweat.

One more thing about marine radios...the Icom IC-M802 is a very, very good marine HF unit that is rated for 150 W @ 100% duty cycle, and has the capability of being programmed to transmit on the Amateur bands. The basic system can be had for less than 2K USD. The marine radios tend to be a bit more robust than your average rig, since when you're far from dry land, you need an utterly reliable communications system.

There are also land-mobile units that are capable of being programmed for both GMRS and Amateur frequencies. These often share accessories with some of the Amateur-specific radios available.

Just remember, like a firearm, a radio is not of optimal use to you in an emergency if it's not with you/not loaded/not setup, or if you are not familiar with it's proper operation...

The secondary question is:

What emergency personnel are you likely to need to communicate with in the event of an emergency, and what frequencies do they use? More and more police units are being outfitted with consumer-type radios, but it would be best to check with public service groups in your area to find out what's going to work best for you and them. I would encourage you to get involved with a CERT Team in your area, as familiarity with the local officials might get them to respond to you better or faster in an emergency than someone they don't know.

Uh, I guess I should have mentioned that the repeaters with diesel generator back up are on local hilltops a few hundred to a couple of thousand feet up, and they are not in buildings (although the generator sets are housed). If the backup generators are underwater, we have more problems than we can deal with. No one will be carrying the generators, as they are fixed in place. Nothing is portable at the repeater sites, and no one is living in the buildings with the generator sets.


I have an FT-817. I would not say it's as portable as a handheld radio. Especially if you are trying to carry it around by hand. See
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/sFFRQ2bAZ9o...FOR/manpack.jpg
(or http://tinyurl.com/ac6ao if the above link wraps and breaks)
for the most portable FT-817 I've seen used on HF. Instead of dragging a counterpoise, this user has an antenna with radials -- but be careful, it'll poke your eye out. I'd consider that get up much more difficult to deal with than an HT. Somewhere you cross the line between being hardy enough to carry that gear and being foolhardy for carrying it around. Imagine walking around in a building or getting in and out of an automobile with that rig.

Additionally, if you are trying to do emergency HF communications on an FT-817 at its maximum of 5 watts, you will be sadly disappointed. Five watts on HF even with a decent antenna just doesn't do the job.

My Icom T7H and T2H both run five watts on AAs, by the way. That's why I picked them. The thing about AAs, though, is that they're everywhere. You can scavange AAs from wall clocks, flashlights, transistor radios, backup power for alarm clocks, and on and on. When your rechargeable battery runs out and you have no power, you need another source. My preference is AAs.

Your mileage will vary. As will the Original Poster's.

Phil

[quoteUh, I guess I should have mentioned that the repeaters with diesel generator back up are on local hilltops a few hundred to a couple of thousand feet up, and they are not in buildings (although the generator sets are housed). If the backup generators are underwater, we have more problems than we can deal with. No one will be carrying the generators, as they are fixed in place. Nothing is portable at the repeater sites, and no one is living in the buildings with the generator sets.[/quote]

Good! I was just thinking of the emergency power contest announcement in QST, and their picture of W1AW's backup diesel generator. I think it's a 60 KW unit about the size of a large chest freezer, and probably the weight of a small car. I was thinking W1AW were ever to get flooded, that generator would not be of much use.



I just picked up an FT-817ND for myself, along with an LDG Z-11Pro and a few other accessories. The whole thing fits nicely into my Tenba camera bag with lots of room to spare. It's actually a lot smaller than I expected. Of course, doing HF while walking around is always going to be a compromise. BTW, that link didn't work for me...is that a pic from the HFPack group? I looked for K3FOR, and I didn't see anything in the photo list.



Five watts does just fine with a decent antenna. But, decent HF antennas aren't easily portable. Then again, the FT-817ND and my HT's aren't my only means of communications. There's always my FT-100 in the car.



According to Icom's specs, the T7H only puts out 2 W on 4xAA's. The T2H puts out 6 W on 8xAA's, and my W32A puts out 1.5 W on 4xAA's. The newer Yaesu units are even worse off, with the VX-6R only putting out 300 mW on 2xAA's.

PSK31 is a NICE mode - I play with it, and it works.

That said, the Man who coordinated the Salvation Army's Communications post Katrina came and spoke at our ARES meeting yesterday - very interesting. When he first went down, he thought he was only going to be doing Ham Comms - turns out they wanted him for ALL comms

He says the thing that went the MOST right was Winlink2000 - which is not a mode, but a system. In HF, Winlink is mostly setup to run PactorII and PactorIII, but in disasters, they usually enable Pactor I. Pactor II and III are GREAT high speed modes, but have a BIG problem - the price of the modem (figure $850 for the cheapest one!!) That said, he said it was an invaluable tool, and intends to setup a PIII PMBO/VHF relay to HF in his house ASAP (which will give NYC a full time HF PMBO)

PSK31 works - but for full fledged disaster comms is actually too slow - It will work for getting personal stuff out - but if you intend to assist others, figure PII or PIII

For a quick explaination of what the Winlink system is - picture I go into a disaster area with a radio and a computer - on the computer, I setup a POP3 and SMTP server (aka email) and hook it to the radio (HF or VHF) - the workers at the shelter/OEM/wherever can then hook their PCs to mine (aka standard network) - and hookup to the email accounts that I give them - using normal email programs like Outlook. My radio sends the message to a station OUTSIDE the disaster area - and it goes out on the internet as normal email - the message is delivered right to the person who needs it, in a way they are used to - complete with attachments!! They can reply, and it will come back the next time my radio polls for email!! In short, Winlink2000 gives us the ability to bring email into disaster areas - proved to work real well for logistics for the Salvation Army

Yep, you're right.

One thing I didn't see mentioned here (sorry if I missed it) was that distance usually limits who you would be able to talk to. In a disaster, if you have a ham rig and know how to use it, other hams will relay messages out of your area, thousands of miles, if necessary.

Another advantage with hams is that most of them know what they're doing.

Sue

One additional point about most Amateur rigs: they can easily be modified to work outside the amateur service bands. This will probably void your warranty, and transmission outside amateur bands is only permitted by the FCC in a true emergency (imminent threat to life or property). If needed, you can talk with FRS/GMRS/MURS/VHF Marine/ HF Marine, the list goes on. About the only ones you won't be able to contact are 1) anything on a 700/800/900 MHz digital or analog conventional or trunked system: most HAM gear just won't transmit on these bands, 2) anything on the Civilian or Military VHF/UHF Air band: again, most ham gear won't do AM at these frequencies.

In short, when TSHTF, anything goes.

Disclaimer: This is for informational purposes only. I am not recommending attempt any of these procedures.

I wouldn't go that far myself, but mileages vary. I'd stick with an unmodified radio and use it as I'm supposed to.

Phil

FCC Regulation: 97.405

------------------------------------------------------------
TITLE 47--TELECOMMUNICATION

COMMISSION (CONTINUED)

PART 97--AMATEUR RADIO SERVICE--Table of Contents

Subpart E--Providing Emergency Communications

Sec. 97.405 Station in distress.

(a) No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur
station in distress of any means at its disposal to attract attention,
make known its condition and location, and obtain assistance.
(b) No provision of these rules prevents the use by a station, in
the exceptional circumstances described in paragraph (a) of this
section, of any means of radiocommunications at its disposal to assist a station in distress.

------------------------
I use an unmodified radio. It does put you in a bind, if the radio works, and you can't get attention on a frequency you know will work (i.e. intrastate police freq)

It's like being told not to take a knife into a protected reef in the keys "because you might kill a fish." Ignore the rule and you face criminal charges if caught. Follow the rule, and you very well could drown to suffer mental trauma when your equipment becomes entangled.

fish's life > your life
government rules > your life

Oh, if you successfully save yourself violating the rules, you probably won't face any charges. They like to call it "heroic" and "thinking outside the box". <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I hear what you're saying, I read the FCC rules, and I still don't buy it. Mileages vary. My opinion, and it is only an opinion, is that if a ham has a radio modified to transmit on police frequencies and does so - even though it's to save life and limb, that ham will face criminal charges and loss of license. shrug - I'm more cautious than you.

We're talking about HF, not an HT on VHF/UHF, so let me comment. Five watts in an emergency cannot be counted on for HF. Second, a decent antenna after Katrina was not to be had by the people who were living there.

My suggestion is to read After-Action Reports by people who were in the destruction zone after Katrina went through. There's one at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hfpack/message/28304
If you can't get to that, here's their comment on wattage:


Opinions vary; that's what makes horse races. But I would choose an HT for local VHF/UHF operation and never an FT-817. That an FT-817 has all HF bands and modes is not icing on the cake when you also have to carry around an workable HF antenna, a tuner, and a bag to carry all the stuff in, and with all that, you're limited to five watts on HF. Too much crap, not enough oomph.

Hopefully I'll never have to find out if I'm right, or you're right! If I do, I might end up dead! I'm not sure how to modify a radio with rocks and leaves!

Well, I guess if I have rocks and leaves, I can always start a signal fire. I figure 10 acres should work... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Just kidding! If I remember correclty, some guy did that in one of the forest fires in the last 10 years, I just can't remember the outcome. I don't think it was favorable.

Well, in 2002, a woman was lost and set a signal fire that became the Rodeo/Chediski Fire. Her fire merged with one set by a local seasonal firefighter who needed some money, and they burned 450,000 acres, the worst in Arizona's written history. Both were started on much less than 10 acres. :-)

See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodeo-Chediski_fire

Louise and I happened to be driving through. People in the area own animals: not just dogs and cats, but horses and cows. Getting the livestock out was a major undertaking. People were told to get out, and all the motels for miles and miles were full of refugees from the fire who didn't know if they'd have a home to go home to.

Some of the highways were so smoked in that travel was discouraged -- CB radios were very helpful getting information on whether we could get from one place to another. We also had our ham radios, which receive on emergency service frequencies, so we could monitor events and highway traffic of the fire and ambulance crews and stay out of their way.

The firefighter/arsonist got prison time, but I never found out what happened to the woman. Supposedly, she'd run out of gas and been stranded in the middle of nowhwere for a couple of days. A news helicopter covering the Rodeo fire flew around, so she set a signal fire which became the Chediski fire. C'est la vie.

Phil

Update: The U.S. Attorney declined to prosecute her in June 2002 for starting the Chediski Fire, citing "absence of malicious intent." As of June 2005 "...the White Mountain Apache Tribe is preparing to try the woman who started the Chediski Fire [in a civil suit]."

Details of the civil suit can be read here .