Is anyone out there preparing for the Bird Flu . Besides having protective masks and latex gloves , how are you preparing ? Vitamins , home made or herbal remedies ???

In case you haven't seen this thread, there's some info there. Initial post contains a still-good link to the TV show transcript.

This afternoon, I took Mom (age 84) to see her family doctor after being hospitalized with a bout of pneumonia a week ago. She (the doctor) mentioned the strong possibility of an outbreak of bird flu here in the States (I wish I could remember her exact words—I should have taken what’s-his-name’s memory course) and that a drug named Tamiflu helps one survive this flu once symptoms appear. She further said some countries have ordered enough of this drug from Roche Pharmaceuticals to protect most of their citizens; but that the US has ordered little. So if there is an outbreak, this stuff will be extremely hard to get in the US. The doctor gave Mom a prescription for Tamiflu to be filled NOW (just to have the drug around) and said do not worry too much about expiration dates. Tamiflu runs 80USD—your medical insurance might pick up some of the costs of this.

I would appreciate anyone with medical qualifications correcting any misstatements I may have made above and elaborating on this drug and the current prognostication on this possible pandemic.

Let me see how to put this nicely.


IT IS NOT HERE



OK? Worry about something worth worrying about.

Google knows all. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tamiflu product web site.

Looks like cool stuff, even without a bird flu epidemic. I had no idea antivirals had come this far. If / when I get the flu or even think I'm getting the flu, I'm going to get my butt to a doctor to see if this stuff makes a difference.

Precautions here:

http://www.cdc.gov/travel/other/avian_flu_ig_americans_abroad_032405.htm

The "Spanish Flu" of 1918 was carried FROM HERE to EUROPE.

As long as we have reasonably open borders, you WILL be susceptible to whatever disease is out there. Including, but not excepting, a kick-butt chicken virus.

The last time this subject came up, I don't think we got anywhere either.

If it happens, it'll be really, really bad. And I don't necessarily mean the flu itself. Think the TSA is intrusive for making you take your shoes off? Wait 'tll a bad flu outbreak.

I think this is one of the few likely scenarios where having a couple of months or more of supplies on hand makes sense. At least, to me. Assuming the flu virus doesn't persist in the environment without victims to spread it, staying inside and waiting out the worst of it seems to be the way to go. Once everyone who has it either recovers or dies, once the mess is cleaned up, once society calms down, if you didn't catch it, you're probably good to go.

Or not. What do I know. Dangit, Jim... I'm a programmer, not a doctor.

What worries me is if there is an outbreak, the government will feel it is necessary to do more "for our safety" and impose more regulations for us citizens to jump through.

I work as a contractor for the company that makes Tamiflu. If you check it out the avian (bird) flu epidimic in Asia was curbed by the use of it. It will work on most type A virus so it is not restricted to flu. The main reason it has not been fully marketed has been a matter of supply. All of the reserve was shipped to Asia. Even though it has been on the market, production would not meet demand. Many doctors are still not aware of the product so you may have to have your doctor look it up. There is continued pressure from the govt. to increase production since an epidemic could be disasterous but the production process is long and costly and is requiring facility expansion.

Headlines report groundwork being laid to allow military to act in flu-related enforcement role.

Groo and all, if you wait for the flu to get here, I dont think there will be any Tamiflu left. Reference last years flu shot shortage. I went to my doctor today and begged him to write me a prescription for my family of 4. He thinks I am an idiot but I got 4 doses for my family.

How long is it good for? The tamiflu, not the prescription. Someone else mentioned shelf life.

I'm glad someone mentioned this here. I was hoping to gather some insight as to what to do, as well.

Did anyone catch the President's press conference? He mentioned how if the pandemic flu hits the U.S., it would be necessary to have the executive power to mobilize the military in order to quarantine a massive number of civilians quickly. Or something like that. He also mentioned the steps that the government was taking to prevent a possible outbreak (stuff on the medical side of things). If anyone has any further info to add, please go ahead.

I'm not counting on being able to get Tamiflu. So I guess the best course of action is....washing my hands often?

Tamiflu is by prescription, it is made by Roche Pharmacueticals.

Here some info about avian flu and Tamiflu meds
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/09/3...reut/index.html

Sorry, correct link is
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/09/30/birdflu.drugs.reut/index.html

Interesting article here, in NY Times. Just been determined that the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic (as Billy Guttery pointed out, above, actually originated in the US) was a bird flu that jumped directly to humans.

Mother Nature does like to play with us.

That's interesting, for years now scientists claimed the 1918 pandemic came from a mutated porcine virus.

Folks, I think we are on the threshold of finally developing a remedy/therapy that can immunize humans from viral infections in the future. I can foresee the engineering of an antagonistic strain of virus that readily recombines with other strains and renders them harmless.

Just a perspective from me here in South East Asia, Singapore. We have had SARS and now avian Infulenza is looming in neighbouring Indonesia. When Indonesia (who usually deny that there is anything wrong with the country) states that they have a problem with containing the avian influenza, we best all sit up and listen.

It can be highly contagious (even more so than SARS) and most governments in this region including the Australian govenrment have been stockpiling Tamiflu and more recently Relenza. Both are neuraminidase inhibitors and short circuit the viral replication process. It's not like they are THE CURE or anything, its just that it's them or nothing! Influenza has become mostly resistant to Amantadine (the previous antiviral) and in time will also become resistant to these two drugs.

Bottom line, most adults with a healthy immune system will probably be OK, it's the elderly, children and people with chronic medical conditions like heart ailments, asthma or other pulmonary conditions who will probably be worse off.

There is no need for the man in the street to panic or stockpile medication. You can't tell if you do have the flu for sure and the window period to treat the flu with these medications is about 48h. Beyond that, the drugs are useless.

SO:
1. Get your flu shots
2. Proper sleep and well balanced diet (no, not Domino's)
3. Exercise helps your immunity

If the flu does hit and an epidemic does occur:
1. Quarantine enforced or otherwise is the way to go. No use yelling about rights and civil liberties. It is the only way to contain the virus. Here in Singapore during SARS, we were [censored] about the 'police state' and 'big brother' enforcing the home quarantine, but in hindsight these tough measures saved many more lives.

2. Antivirals can help - as to how much, leave it to your doc. No use stockpiling. you wouldn't know when to use it.

3. Personal Protective equipment - probably more for front line medical staff like me, paramedicpete etc. N95/N99 maks, goggles, gown, gloves etc

4. Personal hygiene

5. Oh and did I mention....get your flu shot.

HTH

Trusbx, thanks for the wise words. I think we on this forum sometimes get so focused on the gear and gak of preparedness that we lose site of the most important aspect of all in being prepared...our bodies.

As an interesting aside, Toronto, Canada is right now suffering an outbreak of an, as yet undetermined, respiratory virus in a nursing home. Toronto had 44 deaths to SARS in 2003 and what is happening right now is reminder of that event. So far, 16 have died and another 80 are infected, including several staff and two visitors to the home.

You can follow the unfolding story on www.ctv.ca if you're interested.

What gets me the most is our officials’ stupidity. In any outbreak time is of the essence. Yet we get comments like these:

Makes me feel safe & cozy !?!?



I'd hate to see what happens when things are out of control. From 6 to 16 dead in two days - but things are not out of control !?!? I wish they would explain, so I can understand ...

Hope this is the end of it:

Here's info re: Relnza

from GSK (manufacturer): http://www.gsk.com/products/relenza_us.htm

from the FDA: http://www.fda.gov/cder/news/relenza/default.htm

We had an outbreak of avian flu here in the Fraser Valley of British Columbia last February. Over 17 million chickens and turkeys were killed (depopulated) in order to quarantine it. The result was total chaos, with body fluids leaking from trucks hauling the dead carcases for hundreds of miles. If you wanted to spread the flu, you couldn't have found a more effective method. Crows and other carrion eaters had a feast on the infected fluids and body parts that fell off the trucks. In the end, it was contained, but it was lesson in how not to handle an outbreak.

Nobody got the avian flu, but a couple of farm workers came down with some mild flu like symptoms during the depopulation...gotta love that word...process. If we perform that poorly on chickens, imagine how we'll do with human beings.

As others said, wash, wash, wash, wash your hands. I got some Tamiflu on the off chance my family contracts the flu. As a Paramedic, I feel confident in catching the signs if they become infected. We are all getting flu shots and I am drilling into there heads to wash, wash, wash your hands. And do not though your face. Also, as a prophylactic, I am having all family members take an elderberry pill daily.

I'm a big believer in flu shots. Since we've started taking them (3 years), we haven't seen a major flu in our house. And you're right...wash, wash, wash and don't touch your face.

I am just the opposite. I found that I have not gotten the flu when I am exercising and getting enough sleep (8 hrs for me). Anything less and the flu rate goes up. I have not had the flu shot since 1992 either.

Regards,
Bill

Well this may be the end of it : Mystery solved in home deaths

Legionnaires' disease

I cant get that link.

Legionnaires is common in dirt, but it gets dangerous when it gets into the right conditions in air conditioners etc and infects after being inhaled.

I could be a sign of bad maintanence in the nursing home.

The latest, according to my news (ctv.ca), is that they are using only bottled water for consumption, cooking and washing as Legionaires can also live in hot water tanks. They are also going over the air conditioning system. They claim they can't move residents out of the building becuse many of them are very old and frail.

They suspect this may be a variant of the regular Legionaires bacteria, which is why it took them so long to figure out what it was.

So far, 17 have died and 70 residents, 18 staff and 9 visitors are infected. This is one nasty bacteria.

As always, well reasoned advice.

Except the part about Domino's.

just last week i gave a speech on avian flu.
what it runs down to is this.
once infected you have at most 72 hours to be treated after the first 72 your chances of survival go down dramatically.
treatment/prevention with tamiflu or relenza.
cost of treatment per person per week. $105
just a basic run down hope it helps

Here is a pretty darn good document that explains the history of flu epidemics along with preventitive & supportive measures for flu patients:

http://fluwikie.com/uploads/Consequences/NewGuideOct5.pdf

Good to see you here, BigAssDiesel! BAD and I are stowaways from the LightFighter EMS forum.

The risk for us here is low, meaning very few if any cases will occur. On the other hand, tens of thousands will die from the influenza virus (not avian).

When referring to the current avian flu circulating mostly in Southest Asia, I totally agree with jshannon's points. If the current strain somehow got to the United States (I assume that's the "here" referred to), there would be few human cases. Might have to kill a few million chickens, though, if it got into our poultry population.

However, let's not forget that not even the experts can predict what the next global pandemic flu strain will be, or even where it will emerge. The current H5N1 strain that worries experts will likely give rise to the next pandemic strain, but maybe not. A different strain, not really on anyone's radar, could also mutate into a highly lethal, highly infectious strain and catch everyone off guard.

jshannon's comment also seems to assume that the next pandemic will come from Asia. Again, highly likely, but not guaranteed. Geneticists believe the Spanish Flu originated in the midwest of the United States. There are plenty of American poultry farms where influenza exists and which could potentially be the biological mixing bowl where the next pandemic strain is created. In the past couple decades, there have already been a number of mass cullings of American poultry to stop influenza outbreaks among the animals.

Practically speaking, all it takes is for a single human with a mild flu to contract avian flu, genetic material is swapped between the flu strains, and suddenly we could have the next Spanish Flu. The chances of creating a lethal human pandemic strain is very, very low, but this sort of human-bird contact happens all the time, particularly in Asia, so it's really only a matter of time until you roll a hard six and unleash the next monster flu.

I don't mean to be overly alarmist because as I said, I agree with jshannon's opinion that our current risk in the US is low if we're talking about the current avian flu out there right now. But the conditions in the next pandemic situation could turn out to be very different from the current state of affairs and everything that the experts and politicians have been saying about the curent avian flu could turn out to be not applicable.

And like jshannon said, even if there's a pandemic, many people will still be dying of the garden variety flu, so try to keep the danger in perspective.

And if a flu pandemic does break out, it is even more important than ever to get a flu shot because it will help minimize regular flu in the population. Quick and accurate case identification is probably THE most crucial phase of any outbreak scenario from the public health perspective, so the less normal flu around, the easier it will be to track a pandemic strain. I know we've had some discussion of the pros and cons recently about flu shots on this forum, but for the vast majority of people, it's a net benefit. Although older people may not derive as much protection as younger people from actually contracting the garden variety flu, the chance of hospitalization and mortality for older folks is much lower if you've been vaccinated with the current flu shot. So, for those of you who grumble that you contracted the flu even after getting a flu shot, it still might have saved your life or at least kept you out of the hospital and you just don't know it.

After reading this thread and seeing all the coverage in the media, I can see some good come out of the Avian Flu scare.

For starters it has made some people revue their own health, and theor preparations for what may happen.
Governments are actually doing something to prepare for it. (better than nothing)
Scientists and researchers who have been warning of this for a long time are getting more support and funding.
We all know this will happen one day, just like earthquakes, floods, hurricanes etc.
It may not be this strain of the flu that mutates, or it may not be a flu virus at all, but more of the population are getting informed.

From what I understand, Avian Flu has been found in birds in most states in the U.S., but of the 185 or so human deaths in Asia, most or all of those people were those that handled poultry (it wasn't specified if it was live or slaughtered poultry). It has been passed from bird to human, but not from human to human, and it shouldn't, unless it mutates into a form that CAN.

Just get your flu shot, and remember that only bad news sells advertising, which is why news in any form exists. They wouldn't be getting attention unless they show it as a prospective problem.

Sue

I cant comment on the media in the US, but this mutation is the fear that is covered in ours. (Australia)

On another note.
I think it would also be intersting to find out some statistics out of Africa.
I have a friend who just came back from there and they seem to have a flu like disease running through their poultry. They wont eat infected birds, but some sellers try to sell them.
My friend wasn't allowed to eat poultry untill an experienced guide checked them before slaughter. (the guide ate the same food so it was in his best interest too)
They tell visitors that the chickens have Aids and dont eat them. I think this is because they know that visitors know what Aids is and its the best way of getting their point across the language barrier.

There's another point to consider in the statistics of chance here. One human infected with a human inluenza strain can expose how many birds? It is not just one way. In fact, chickens have a lower immune resistance to disease than humans. The chance that an infected human will cause the mutation by exposing chickens to a human virus is actually probably greater than going the other way. Chickens are not the cleanest animals.