The larger two-burner Coleman stoves and the one-burner little brother actually do provide very good simmer control. I"ve used them for years and they do quite well.

On the other hand, as I've said here, I was really surprized how much problem I had regulating the two-burner propane stove. I won't give up yet, but it wasn't as easy as my faithfull white-gas Coleman two-burner.

It is the white gas backpacking stoves that are notorious for having very poor simmering control. I think it is mostly because of the relatively small size of the fuel tank - it is hard to maintain a constant fuel pressure. I don't recall having that problem with the one-burner Coleman stove.

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By the way, never ever use these stove indoors without adequate ventilation. Even if you think you have adequate venilation, I'd recommend you have a carbon monoxide detector in the area.

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Thanks, this is very informative. I like the idea of the dual fuel Coleman stove somewhat better than the Whisperlight for this purpose, because of simmering, easy starting, etc. A few further questions:

1) Suppose I buy a can of Coleman fuel, open it and pour it into MSR bottles. Does that count as opening the container, reducing the shelf life?

2) Coleman fuel is available in cans like 1 pint or 1 quart, right? Is there a good reason to buy gallon cans beyond saving a couple bucks? MSR bottles are around 10 bucks each, so needing several of them jacks up the cost of this scheme noticably. Is it really safer to open a 1 quart (or pint) Coleman can and pour it into an MSR bottle, than to just leave it in the Coleman can? I don't feel I'd want to keep enormous amounts of white gas on hand. Part of the attraction of the dual fuel stove is being able to resort to auto fuel if I run out of white gas.

3) How does the heat output of these things compare with a normal kitchen stovetop burner? Maybe I want to cook large batches of stuff, involving boiling 4-8 quarts of water in a large pot. Feasible?

4) Can I store and/or transport the Coleman stove with fuel in it? If not, how do I get the unused fuel out? Do I pour it back in the MSR bottle somehow?

Re carbon monoxide: I expected I'd be using the stove outdoors, or at any rate next to an open window.

The kerosene stove with the 10 wicks also seems nice. It's cheap and it seems to me that nothing can go wrong with it.

I know you mentioned not wanting a tiny backpacking stove, but for the price the MSR "Pocket Rocket" is a great little stove ($29-$39). As far as space, it folds up into a small plastic storage box. No problems with storing white gas or regular gasoline; it uses screw-on fuel (Lindel valve) canisters instead.

I'll second the idea to be very careful about ventilating properly.

I wouldn't consider using a camp stove anywhere indoors, even "next to an open window". Same thing goes for "...in the garage, with the garage door open". There's no guarantee that carbon monoxide will drift out of the open window. I was just reading a news article on the Rita death toll--the bodies of five people were discovered in a Beaumont apartment. It was CO poisoning from a generator. Granted, running a generator for hours is different from a small camping stove, but this guy probably thought he was smart by opening a window, too. Beware, CO can take a long time to be eliminated from the bloodstream, so it can build up after repeated exposure, which is highly likely during a disaster. Be safe, use the stove outside.

What Arney said ... it is really best to keep it outside.

Don't worry too much about the fuel's shelf life. I've used fuel that is approaching 10 years of age and it works fine and hasn't gummed up the stoves. The thing that damages most stoves I've seen is the gunk that splattered on the stove which can lead to rust. If you clean the stove with a soapy towel after each use it will last a long long time.

I would suspect the reason Coleman distinguishes between opened and unopened is that they cannot guarantee that a opened container has resealed correctly. My advice would be to protect the spout and lid after opening, and wipe off the spout with a towel before putting the cap back on. If it is treated well and not left open too long it should have the same shelf life as an unopened can.

I have never seen Coleman fuel in anything but gallon containers, so I can't comment on other sizes. Get the gallon container and don't worry too much. They are dirt cheap. They are reasonably easy to handle with a good funnel. I don't see much, if any, benefit to transferring the fuel to small aluminum containers if the seal on the original can is not damaged.

Do as suggested before. Buy a gallon of Coleman fuel, mark it clearly with the purchase date, and then use it directly from the original container. Though it is certainly not as safe as storing the fuel outdoors or in a detached building, I have stored my fuel in basements and attached garages for years with no incidents.

A Coleman stove running at full open is hotter than my propane range I have in my house, but not as hot as electric stoves I've had before. Its been a long time since I've used natural gas with a home range, so I can't comment on that.

Yes, you can leave the unused fuel in the stove. If the stove will remain unused for a long time (years) then I'd probably try to burn off the fuel to empty the tank. Have a weenie and corn boil or something to use up the fuel. Don't waste or risk contaminating fuel by pouring it back into the original container.

Having never used a kerosene stove, I'm curious how well they work. It seems that they'd stink a bit and that there might be a soot issue. Wasn't that the big advantage of the Coleman lanterns when compared to the kerosene lanterns??

One last thing: If you have the room to store a two-burner stove, then I would definitely suggest you go that route. They have lots of advantages over any one-burner stove. The lid and side screens act as wind blocks, which greatly improve fuel consumption and decrease cooking time - wind screens are usually recommended even with little backpacking stoves. The two-burner stove has a much bigger fuel tank, which means less fuel pouring and more consistent fuel pressure. Finally, the two-burner stoves have, well, two burners. Which means you can cook food on one burner while heating the coffee or wash water with the other. They are also MUCH more stable with large pans/pots - almost impossible to tip over, though I've actually seen one get knocked over in scouts - luckily it wasn't lit at the time.

Also, when lighting any stove make sure you light it VERY soon after turning on the fuel. I've seen many stoves blow or flare up become the dopey user turned on the fuel and THEN started looking for the matches. The same thing can happen on a home range or barbecue too though.

Kerosene stoves, just like kerosene space heaters, do not really soot or stink if they are properly seasoned before use and used correctly.... the primary causes of sooting or smell are because either the wick is carbonized and/or out of adjustment (heaters) or someone blew out the flame instead of letting it go out on its own by just turning it down.... using it in a windy area would cause those issues too since it would be just like someone blowing out the flame.... that is the only time I have ever had a kerosene heater stink or soot. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

One last consideration... while ventilation is important, think about this.... kerosene heaters were MADE to be used indoors... what does it say on the side of your radiant propane heater? <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

True, but all appliances that burn fuel produce some CO--some appliances and some fuels produce more than others. Your propane water heater, your natural gas stove, your charcoal barbecue, they all do. A kerosene space heater may not produce much CO, but they are often left on for hours and hours. A slow build up of CO is insidious and will likely be harder to recognize than a sudden build up that quickly makes you nauseous and gives you a headache. Don't get me wrong, I have grown up with kerosene heaters and have fond memories of feeling that radiant heat on my face, but like any fuel-burning appliance, you need to take some precautions.

I just did a quick Google search and found a hazard that I had not thought of--asphyxiation. I've always thought that CO is the biggest danger of kerosene heaters, but apparently so is asphyxiation. In a small or enclosed space, the heater consumes all the oxygen. The lack of oxygen itself can kill you. In addition, less oxygen means inefficient combustion, which leads to increased production of CO, which also can kill you. The combo of CO poisoning plus lack of oxygen is probably especially lethal. But lack of oxygen isn't the only cause of inefficient combustion. Like tmiller116 mentioned, a carbonized or out of adjustment wick could do it. Or if the glass globe (what do call that?) is ajar. These conditions also lead to inefficient combustion and higher than normal CO.

Regarding a kerosene heater and CO, I would say:
* make sure it is in good working condition
* don't use them in an enclosed room
* always make sure there's a source of fresh air (crack an outside window an inch)
* don't fall asleep with one on
* have a CO detector

Of course, there are the additional warnings to keep it away from flammable objects and to always refuel it outside, after it has cooled.

>> wouldn't consider using a camp stove anywhere indoors, even "next to an open window". Same thing goes for "...in the garage, with the garage door open". There's no guarantee that carbon monoxide will drift out of the open window.<<

My countrary opinion from a region where 99% of us cook with natural gas or LPG:

1. CO rapidly homogenizes with the atmosphere; it very very rarely concentrates more tham momentarily, usually only because of sustained thermal stratification (like a house fire).

2. What is the difference between using a gas home appliance (stove or oven) and using a gas or naptha stove indoors? FIRE!!! There is a slightly greater danger of fire, so keep an extinguisher handy. The CO danger is about the same. This certainly applies in a house that already uses natural gas or LPG for the stove & oven.

I suppose that if one has a home that was expressly designed super-tight and with electric-only cooking appliances, there is an elevated risk. Those tend to be "sick" houses already, though, with extremely poor indoor air quality. A tight house designed to use an enthalpy exchanger for good indoor air quality (they are still not the dominant design in the USA) will become a "sick" house in fairly short order when the power is off, regardless of running a stove. In a house of that design, open some windows when the power is off, regardless - air quality goes to heck in less than 24 hours in most of those houses. With some windows open, we're back to an adequate ventilation scheme to run a camp stove. See fire danger in #2.

So it depends on your house. Keep a good fire extinguisher handy and a CO detector is cheap insurance. Learn the stove operation and quirks outside, then move the operation inside and repeat. Be conscious of countertops - many stoves can get hot enough on the bottom to scorch a countertop. Putting the stove on a small scrap of wall board, edged and covered with foil ductwork tape for aesthetics is a fool-proof way to avoid beatings-by-wife. Improvise something else if need be. But try it all out before you need it.

HTH,

Tom

Tom, point taken. Reading through a bunch of different threads at one time, I'm getting a bit mixed up between stoves vs heaters vs generators, propane vs kerosene vs other fuels. Yes, in general, using a propane camping stove for cooking is pretty safe, as far as CO is concerned, even indoors. But once you start using fuels like gasoline, or running kerosene space heaters for long periods of time, the risk of CO is going to go up.

I just ran across an article about two campers who recently died of CO poisoning from a propane lantern in their tent (apparently not suicide according to the ME), so even propane can kill by CO poisoning in circumstances that seem pretty safe at first glance.

Similarly, I ran across another article that describes a number of generator-related deaths/injuries in Florida recently. Unlike the recently reported deaths of 5 people in Beaumont, Texas, where a generator was run in the apartment, this article describes two separate incidents where the generators were actually sitting outside the homes and yet the CO made its way back into the homes. In one case, authorities theorize that a breeze blew the generator exhaust through an open sliding glass door. In the other case, the generator was inadvertently turned towards the home during late night refueling, and the CO made its way under a mobile home and probably seeped up through the floor.

I know, I'm off talking about lanterns and generators now. Sorry. But don't take that CO lightly! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Arney,

Your points on safety and potential problems are well stated and noted. However, we have used a kerosene heater in our home for the past 20+ years. We even sleep with it, while it runs at night. We have an older home, so drafts are ever present and we have both CO detectors and fire extinguishes ready and available. None of our CO detectors have ever activated. We keep one right by the heater, one near the bedrooms and one in the kitchen.

Regular maintenance, using the correct fuel and taking reasonable safety precautions should allow most homeowners to use one safely.

Pete