After a major earthquake,<br><br>1. I have no gas in my apartment and my stoves are electric. So long as electricity is restored, I can cook. If I didn't have electricity, how would I cook in my apartment? What do I need?<br><br>2. If it is assumed the water is contaminated, how would I do the dishes? Should I use my reserve water (2.5 gal containers) or should I use paper plates and bowls, picnic style?<br><br>3. Is it better to get ready to eat food, assuming that cooking will not be possible?<br><br>Please let me know. I am stocking up on foods...I bought some canned stuff but was hesitant to buy stuff like tried potato mix, dried margerine, egg noodles, etc. in lieu of ready to eat but expensive Campbells soup and chili.

#3 - Ready to eat food would be my preference for the first 72 hours. During this time "anything" could happen and I wouldn't want to be dependant on or tied down to any infrastructure. Freeze dried or sea Rations such as mainstay products would be my first choices for this time. If things last more than 72 hours then the first 72 give me plenty of time to transition to improvized infrastructure. <br><br>#2 Paper plates are better than wasting your drinking water on doing dishes. Again the answers will change after the first 72. During the first 72 hours don't use dishes. Don't cook. Don't waste water on cleaning dishes or anything else. Unless wounded you should be able to go for a few days without washing more than your face and hands. Washing these remains essential to prevent disease. If things extend beyond 72 hours you should have a way to save your "gray water" (the water alreaady used to wash dishes can be re-used to flush the toilet or wash clothes etc. ) Do not attempt to re-use black water (sewage). If you seem to be in for a long duration (>72 hours) you should have a means of purifying water. Filter and fire are best when combined.<br><br>#1 Don't start a fire in your apartment! There will not be a response from the Fire Department. If the electricity is on you should probably turn it off until the electrician can checkout the building for damage. Your buildings condition will determine if it is safe to run the electricity. Go outside if you need to cook on a fire. You should be on MRE or Mainstay rations for the first 72 hours so cooking will not be necessary. If things last longer then I would suggest the rooftop as the more secluded place to cook without having to feed strangers. Cook on a stove not an open fire. A 1 or 2 burner coleman stove using white-gas is probably adequate. Checkout your access to the roof and be prepared with flooring if you find it necessary. Most flat roofs are not designed for walking on and may suffer damage if you use them without something extra to walk on. A sheat of 1/2 or 3/4 plywood would make an acceptable roof patio if there isn't one. The plywood could be stored on-end against the wall in any room without being noticed. Just screw the top two corners to the wall and paint it. This also reinforces your walls and helps to dampen the noises comming from the neighbors. Or you could store it on the roof leaning up against the top of the stairs depending upon wind conditions up there.

I don't disagree with anything miniMe said, but I might add a couple of thoughts.<br><br>As he indicated, water is always going to be a very high priority, and cooking a relatively low one.<br><br>That having been said, assuming that in your projected scenario you've really taken care of all the higher priority items and are still concerned about cooking, there are a couple of things I might consider:<br><br>One- MREs with MRE heaters. This is a short-term solution, but it will get you hot food. You pour a little water in the heater and it heats up the pouch in about 10 minutes, no flame. Some ventilation is needed for any food-heating option.. but, after a big one in an apartment, you may already have a lot more ventilation than you need.<br><br>Two- for longer term I MIGHT consider an Alpaca kerosene combination heater/stove. Kerosene is much safer than gasoline (white gas, Coleman fuel, whatever) and stores much better (at least 5 years). This one-burner stove/heater is, as far as I know, unique in that it's built on the same principles as kerosene space heaters, and is designed for use without venting (chimney, ducting), NOT without ventilation. It's pretty small (about a foot high), but efficient, and as a heater will take the chill off of an apartment in a pinch as well.<br><br>I would never consider any gasoline/Coleman fuel stove (or lantern!) for indoor use, and I have used them outdoors for a lot of years. Also, before I purchased any heaters or stoves for indoor use, I bought both fire extinguishers and battery-powered combination smoke detector/CO (carbon monoxide) detectors. The model I bought is easliy detatchable from the ceiling (twist) for use in whatever room you're cooking in or heating. I wouldn't want to use a kerosene space heater without one or two.<br><br>Also be aware that such devices should be stored empty and dry (which can be a hassle after use), and from that state it will probably take 3 hours or so for kerosene to saturate a dry wick- so this is not a quick option. I'd think about filling it as the MREs or MRE heaters were getting low, unless it was really cold.<br><br>Of course, cooking outside is always preferable when feasible. You really, really don't want a fire. The ethic your mother taught you of turning the lights out when you leave a room used to be life-and-death, not just the electric bill.. when all light was combustion, getting in the habit of leaving a room with one burning vitually guaranteed that sooner or later you would burn down your house. Never leave any flame unattended, even by dozing off. If you have a fire of any kind going, you need someone on fire watch.<br>

Hey there.<br><br>I decided to go with canned food. I don't want to cook on the patio, because about a half dozen apartments and everyone between the swimming pool and entrance can see me on the balcony. While I like to share under normal circumstances, I still have my roommate to take care of, which essentially cuts my supply in half, and feed one neighbor, and you gotta feed 'em all.<br><br>How would I determine if electricity is safe if no one is in the leasing office to call an electrictian? Should I assume unsafe for the first 72 hours?<br><br>I plan to have about 20 days of canned stuff (chili, soup, diced veggies and corn) and 10 days of survival rations. Is that a decent 30-day package? I'll probably go the first 2 days living off my refrigerated foods that don't need cooking (vegetables, cold cuts) because it'll spoil faster.

This was my reality after the Northridge quake. First, living just north of the L.A./Ventura line we lost electrical power. We called a relative in Washington State to let them know we were allright. He informed us our Grandmother ( in Northridge) was O.K. , but the house was damaged. This system allows people to have a safe contact without tying up local communications needed by emergency personel. We loaded flashlights, extra blankets, water, coleman two burner stove and my Mauser. The allready rude driving habits of SoCal were exasperated by knocked out signals, gas fires erupting from the asphalt and the many cinderblock fences knocked into the street. There were no police checkpoints as in a localized fire situation ( the few units available were literally a THIN BLUE LINE, and they weren't responding to loud radio complaints.) The key word was GO SLOW @ 25mph, heads on swivels. On arrival we learned their water was off ( Ventura, on a different system was functioning.) We prepared a campsite with the tent as I secured the gas line. The neighborhood consisted of families that had lived together since 1926. The coleman got a workout as we pooled resources and secured each home on the street ( broken windows, gas shut off, pets secured, food pooled.) A community before a disaster is a community during a disaster, even Hollywierd. If you don't know your immediate neighbors now, introduce yourself. That night there WERE looters. I watched 2 scale the fence with sacks and large screwdrivers. When the mauser bolt double chirped, they announced they were looking for work. I let them clear the collapsed brick chimney all night and gave them a running start at daybreak. Water was trucked in with a quota. Flashlights were at a premium. Gouging at some local retailers occured. People took names and there were prosecutions later. A co worker who's apartment was the one with fatalities moved to Oklahoma shortly after. He later got hit by a tornado.

Howdy,<br><br>I am not an electrician and someone please correct me if I am wrong but I would not be overly concerned about the safety of a building's electricity. If it is on it is safe. If there were a short the breaker would have caught it. If power is off on just a single circuit (15-20 amp), unplug all the items on that circuit and reset the breaker. If the breaker pops again leave it off. If the main breaker (100-200 amp) were popped then I would not try to reset it until a electrician has looked at it. If the main breaker was still on and no sparks were coming out of the wall I would not turn if off. Many houses have sump pumps and other devices that need to keep working or you will have a basement full of water or sewage. You could also loose your phones without power. The base stations of cordless phones don't work without power. It is a good idea to have at least one phone that does not use electrical power. <br><br>The time to check your house's electrical system is before a disaster. If you have the old style screw in fuses (maybe with a penny under one) or if you have old cotton insolated wire or old knob and tube wiring your house maybe a disaster waiting to happen. <br><br>Also if you have a generator don't plug it into you house or you could electrocute the guy down the street trying to fix the lines. You need to have a cut-in box professionally installed to power your house with a generator. <br><br>I would be concerned about natural gas after a disaster. Here in the midwest gas is popular for home heating. I have a wrench set aside and I know where the shut-off valve is so I can turn it off if I smell gas in the house or suspect a broken gas pipe. It is also a good idea to know where the water shut off is in case of a broken water pipe or washing machine hose. Water can do a lot of damage if you can't get it shut off. <br><br>Have fun<br>David Koelzer

Never having experienced a quake like that... you've gotten some advice already, but I'll toss in my 2 cents worth. (Chris K's first hand account was super, btw. IIRC, his Mauser is in some obscure "tropical" caliber - Chris, do you rec solids or softpoints for stopping charging looters? LoL - JK). <br><br>On stoves: if you don't want to spend a lot of money and don't want to use white gas, how about propane appliances fueled from disposable one pound cylinders? Several to choose from, including lanterns, and they tend to be fairly inexpensive and simple. [Side note: I think the kerosene advice is fine, but not for me. I've used wick type stoves, pressurized kero, diesel, JP5, mogas, alcohol, LPG, etc. Personally, I find pressurized "gasoline" stoves most preferable, followed by various LPGs. And packaged fuel like Coleman and Blazo has stabilizer in it, so a sealed can stays good long enough. BUT - I agree about the slightly elevated hazards for the unwary and/or inexperienced.]<br><br>Light: If not a lantern (see propane, above), then how about a nice candle lantern like an Ucco? I've used one for a long time and they work great. Haven't seen it in person, but there's a new version of it out that has an LED lamp built into the base as well as the original version. Ucco's take a specific size candle, so stock a few spares. Of course, LED lights with a few spare batteries would be just dandy, too.<br><br>What if your building is unsafe/unstable? At least a tarp and some cordage would be a good thing to have handy. Along those lines, perhaps a packable 72 hour kit kept with you (in your vehicle?) as the nucleus of your more extensive supplies at home would be a good idea (what if your building collapses or you cannot return to it for a couple of days?) You can lug that much stuff around without a fancy backpack in your climate, I think. If the weight is too much, cut the 72 hour water down a bit - you probably would be OK at 2 liters/quarts a day for three days if you conserve sweat.<br><br>I'd keep a walking stick handy (with 72 hour gear) as well. Something in the "quarterstaff" type model - broomstick or larger "natural" one that is about 1/2 foot taller than you. Too many potential uses to list here. Keep it simple - who would want to steal a stick?<br><br>Just a few thoughts that I hope are helpful to you as you sort all this out and decide what to do.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom<br><br><br>

Good question, especially for those of us in earthquake country. My approach for the aftermath of a major quake is to sit tight and camp at home while we repair or rebuild. I have a single family dwelling; an apartment complicates things a bit. IIRC, several apartment buildings were collapsed/uninhabitable following Northridge.<br><br>I don't think you can count on electricity following a quake. In fact, power outages are not unknown even without quakes. I would recommend stocking up on propane equipment for cooking. White gas is simply too hazardous, not that propane is hazard free. In an apartment situation, I would consider using a backpacker type stove, since you might have to leave. Two burner coleman stoves are just too bulky and heavy for that eventuality. If you can count on staying put, stockpiling propane in 25 lb bottles and using a bulky stove will work well; you will be able to purify lots of water and cook as well.<br><br>Coming from a desert background, potable water is used ONLY for drinking when there is any question about availability. Don't mess with freeze dried stuff. Canned foods are what you want - they already have water in them and will not intrude upon your water supply. Stored in cool, dry conditions, they will last well beyond their expiration dates, and you can always rotate them into your normal consumption. Remeber that you have more water stored than you may realize - there are about five gallons of perfectly fine water in your toilet tank (not the bowl). Shut off the supply valve in order to preserve its purity after the quake. The sewers probably will be busted, along with all the other utilities, so think about waste disposal. If you have canteens around, store them full, and change the water periodically. Contaminated water from the tap can be rendered fully potable by bringing to a full, rolling boil. You do not need to sustain the boil for several minutes as some recommend.<br><br>I recommend canned foods, especially those that can be eater without any or very little preparation, which is nearly all canned stuff, come to think about it. You will have many more important things to do without messing around with cooking, especially at the start. I have a lot of staples packed away, but I have also stored some luxuries (gourmet chocolates! and similar) just so we can give ourselves a little psychological lift. I figure most of my fuel will be consumed in purifying water, rather than cooking.<br><br>I would think about shelter, too, in case the building is uninhabitable. A lot can be done with blue tarps and simple tools and supplies. Historically, fire and aftershicks have complicated post quake life. So all of us should be prepared to leave if circumstances require.<br><br>Quakes are a fact of life in SoCal, and actually throughout the rest of the USA as well, but I would rather take my chances with an earthquake than a tornado or hurricane any day. Quakes are easier to plan for.

Just a passing thought, building on Ayers good recommendations. The easiest, most available source for electricity is most likely your car. Fine for charging radios, batteries, etc. But obtain an appropriate converter so you can turn the DC into AC.<br><br>A written, prioritized list of items to take with you is a good idea, as well. We actually used ours a few years ago, and it really helps.

Just to clarify my orignal suggestion... I have several pressurized "gasoline" stoves (back to my old 1971 Svea, still working.. sorta) and have used it for backpacking for many years, and that's what I prefer for that useage myself.<br><br>The Alpaca I mentioned is different than other wick-type kerosene stoves, being built along the lines of a kerosene space heater, it's designed to burn especially clean for use indoors. Personally, I will not used pressurized stoves or lanterns indoors, especially gasoline. Some here who are senior to me may remember that Aladdin made their fortune (in wick/mantle kerosene lamps) off the statistics of farmhouses burned down by their pressurized-gasoline lantern comptetitors. <br><br>The Alpaca was suggested just to keep from having to cook outdoors- with proper precuations, of course.

<<...my old 1971 Svea...>> No kidding! That's when I bought my Svea. Lots of great memories there... Mine has been re-wicked and other misc parts replaced over the years. Converted the fuel cap with an Optimus + pump a long time ago to make self-priming in cold weather easier.<br><br>"Alpaca" sounds familiar, but I'm pretty sure I've not seen the stove - do they also make heaters? The stoves I've used have a wick inside an "inverted can" with holes on the sides and generally burn with blue flames at the holes. (The oldest one I had used a circular wick of asbestos - a two burner rig)<br><br>Somewhere in the "archives" (attic) is an old heater/stove we used as a (canvas) tent space heater when I was a kid. Dad was concerned about CO, flare ups, spills, etc. and sought this out as the fuel is alcohol. It's a round can of maybe 3 gallon bulk with a tank full of batting in the bottom, a wick (think giant zippo), flame spreader, aluminum "lid" to difuse the heat (pierced with lots of 1/2" - 3/4" holes), and a crude means of removing the lid and using as a stove. Refueling was an exercise done far from the tent and with LOTS of waiting to make CERTAIN that any pesky "invisible" alcohol spills had totally evaporated. Seemed like quite the gadget at the time... modern counterpart would be a catalytic heater, I suppose.<br><br>Time to hit the door - maybe more later.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

If you buy food you like and normally eat, then you simply rotate the goods everytime you shop. Planning on canned chili for a quick meal? Buy a can and put it on the shelf and pull the one you bought a few months ago for dinner. <br><br>Now you really don't have to worry about shelf life.

Yup.. mine was re-wicked a long time ago, new flame spreader and seals, and I think it's on it's third jet. Last time I had someone else work on it he was dubious about finding some parts the next time.. apparently the later models had self-cleaning jets, and some of the parts changed. I still have the little steel folding cleaning needle that came with it.<br><br>I also have an Optimus that's the same basic unit with a larger tank inside a painted metal box instead of the brass windscreen.<br><br>>>Converted the fuel cap with an Optimus + pump a long time ago to make self-priming in cold weather easier.<<<br><br>Nah. Real men just squeeze the tank.. seriously, I never had much problem with the priming, so long as I released the vacuum in the tank after it cooled. Even if I forgot, it only took 20 seconds or so to do it with hand heat in the cold, or a Bic when it's warmer. It looked to me like that pump was bound to be a hassle with the windscreen, but maybe not. The old way you only had to remove the windscreen for filling.<br><br>I have an MSR Whisperlite that I use mostly these days, but I used the Svea last summer to melt some lead for casting balls. Still puts out an awful lot of heat for it's weight.. of course, the roar has scared newbies witless at times... it is noisy. And a high center of gravity, with a pot on top.<br><br>The Alpaca is very much like a scaled-down space heater. About a foot tall, it has the tubular wick and an elaborate combustion chamber just like a heater, but with a pot rack on top. I haven't seen heaters by them, but I'd sort of be surprised if they didn' t make them. It's NOT really suited for camping, I wouldn't think- too bulky. The Whisperlite is the multi-fuel model with a kerosene jet if I ever need to use it that way. <br><br>The Alpaca fit in well with my setup, as I decided against an emergency generator and went with kerosene instead- space heaters, stoves, Aladdin lamps, lanterns. Redundant and overlapping systems- there are fireplaces, and a wood stove with a removable internal pot rack and a Peltier-junction fan as well. Candle lanterns and a gross of candles as another backup, but mostly to have something to give to help the neighbors... not much light there, but no learning curve.<br><br>I see that Kirkman is selling a Peltier junction that powers a radio from the waste heat of a kerosene lantern. Why not?

Yeah, mine's had about the same amount of replacement parts, near as I can remember. Put quite a few gallons of fuel thru that. Almost certain that I bought mine from EMS. Ever forget to remove the key when it was running? I think that might have been the REAL reason I started carrying needle nose pliers back then, LoL. It's still one of the easiest stoves to pack and as long as you don't let the tank run dry (ahem - that's why I had to replace the wick) they're darned reliable. Same guts as the 8r or 10r, I think - the box stoves. For reasons beyond my understanding, I have seen many of the Optimus box stoves leak, flare, and pop the pressure relief - too exciting for me. Almost every person I knew who used one from ~ early 70s to mid 80s - had that happen at least once. Some fixed/replaced, some went to other stoves. I'm sure I personally saw more than 6 of the Optimus go up in flames. Wierd.<br><br>Yes, the windscreen has to be removed to use the pump - but it was well worth it. I needed that in the Arctic. It's not a great extreme cold weather stove, but I made do with it a long time. I had (have) a little disk of 1/8" plywood with three tiny round-head screws arranged so that I could "snap" the rim of the tank onto the disk pretty securely and then put the stove on a scrap of ensolite. When the snow is 60 feet deep... it's bad for the stove to core down - spills the soup <grin>. And lordy, the wind could test my patience. I fiddled with various wind shielding arrangements including in-situ materials (snow, rocks, whatever), and never did totally whip that. I'm hoping some of the GREAT memories that stove brings back are imbued in it as I pass it to one of my sons - and hope he creates his own good memories with it.<br><br>Next "serious" stove was an MSR XGK - I think they had just come out with the XGK, and it hurt me to pay that much for a stove (they are actually cheaper now than they were then, plus the dollar is worth a lot less - practically give them away now). There's a stove that makes a racket! As I'm sure you know, they're far more complex mechanically than the simple Svea, but I have never had a lick of trouble with it. What a rocket ship! If the object is to boil water, that's the stove. And that foil windscreen really works great. The drawback, similar to the Svea, but writ large, is that those primus-type roarer burners have almost no "throttle" - it's off or it's running at "melt the pot" speed. Difficult to cook with, but a great way to boil water. Very awkward stove to pack. I sewed up little canvas pouches (I had the canvas and sometimes needed to pack the stove up FAST - ie, still a bit hot), complete with what folks now call ALICE clips, and usually rigged the pounchs on the exterior of whatever pack I was using. Still use that stove, of course, and still carry the rebuild parts with it, although all I've ever replaced was a few o-rings (that was on spec, not because there was a problem).<br><br>One of the stoves that overlapped those two was - don't laugh - a Coleman Sportster (didn't call them that then). You know - Coleman type burner on top of a single mantle lantern body. I rarely carried that "on my back" - in a pulk, stowed in an over-snow vehicle (if I had one to use), in my canoe, etc. It was a good little stove - I saw LOTS of those in use by far north native Americans. Someone stole it... never did replace it. In really cold weather (way sub-zero) I would usually have to remove the pump plunger, flex the leather cup out, and put it back together before I could pump it up for a cold start. I think synthetic oil would solve that problem, but it didn't occur to me at the time. Cooked a lot of real food on that rascal.<br><br>(I'm sticking to talking about stoves that worked well for me, BTW - skip the "failures") <br><br>Most frequently used stove for quite some time is my now-ancient Coleman Peak I - really should replace it with the newer version that has an alloy tank instead of the all-steel model I have. It does everything I want in a packable stove and stows almost as easily as the Svea - I sorta consider it my "current" Svea stove. It has never given me any protest and I'm getting tired of keeping spare parts in my repair kit, because it's chugging along good as new with all the orginal parts (I did replace the fuel filler cap with a tethered cap for fear of losing the cap some frigid place and time). Compression nut leaked a few drops once after the stove rattled around in the back of my truck for 3,600 + miles - didn't catch on fire, I shut it down, and tightened the nut a tic with my pliers and that was years ago - no problems since.<br><br>I used a Peak I duel-fuel (multi-fuel?) in Africa for quite some time because I knew I couldn't get white gas (or even mogas where I was). After I ran thru some local kero I bought before I left "civilization", I burned JP5 in it - it was a "single fuel theater", so we used JP5 for everything. Real PITA and the outside of the stove was forever slick and "stinky" with kero or JP5 - nasty. Stove burned great after it preheated. Preheating with JP5 or kero looks like an oil refinery fire... I gave the stove away after a few months and used other methods of heating stuff up. I probably would have kept the stove if I'd had white gas to use in it, but I hated it by the time I gave it to someone. Just as well - the fat little tank didn't stow as nicely as the sleeker old Peak I of mine.<br><br>BTW, I found Blazo noticably superior to Coleman fuel in extreme cold. Hard to find Blazo around here though, unless I want to order a 55 gallon drum of it. When I was a kid there was a gas station here (probably more than one) that had a pump for... white gas. Dad never bought Coleman fuel until they went out of business...<br><br>Of course, we have a couple of big green boxes for non-backpacking campouts and other reasons. A "large" two burner with a propane converter and hose stashed inside so we can run it off white gas or disposable tank propane or bulk tank. Also a 3 burner propane-only one (we sometimes cook for more than just us on family rendezvous, and the family is getting large). Kid picked up a brand new "classic" two burner off the neighbor's curb a while back - they never even fired it up. Bought it and a really nice lantern intending to go "camping", never camped, used the lantern once during an extended power outage, and then "spring-cleaned" it to the curb. He'll take those with him when he leaves home, I'm sure. Hard to beat those big green boxes in a base camp.<br><br>New stove buyers have a bewildering array of really decent stoves to choose from at very attractive prices now. Buyer's market, I think. Whisperlite is a really nice one - couple of aquaintances have them.<br><br>I saw pics of that W.T. Kirkman gadget, too. Nifty. The cold side radiators make it seem a little bulky, but hey, it's using waste heat to deliver 2 1/4 watts DC - not bad.<br><br>Too long a post already - I'll quit here before Chris banishes me to the Campfire Forum forever...<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

Just my 2 cents, but I didn't see a lot of people recommending fire extinguishers. In a situation like these, the fire department will be stretched so thin, your house's (or what's left of it) ashes will be cold before they show up. I keep a large fire extinguisher on every floor of my house - one in my bedroom, one in the kitchen, and one in the basement, with two more out in the garage. There's no such thing as 'too many'. You may end up being your only 'fire department' (And after an earthquake, water may not be flowing). I've also heard a few people recommend buckets of sand (or even soil dug from your yard), kept inside the house, to be thrown on a fire if need be. I guess some old blankets would work too.<br>Another thing - I was walking through the local Home Depot the other day, and noticed they now carry an 'explosive gas' detector. It detects natural gas and propane. I thought it was a good idea to have one. My house (boiler, fireplace, range, dryer, etc.) is almost all gas. It was $60 bucks, but it'll help me sleep. (A guy I work with gave me a nice idea - chain a old wrench near your gas shut-off valve. This isn't the time to go searching for a wrench).<br>I keep two 23,000 BTU kerosene heaters (stored in the basement), with the kerosene (in 5 gallon containers) out in the garage (also bought at Home Depot, on sale for $89 bucks each). I think they'll help if it gets too cold. I want to get more.<br>I, too, keep a fair supply of 'civilian MRE's' on hand (Campbell soup, Chef Boyardee 'whatever', various canned fruits and veggies, canned tuna & chicken, etc. Anything that has a decent shelf-life. You could even heat them on the kerosene heaters if you needed to, though some of them taste good cold). I also have some 'comfort' foods - hard candy, chocolate bars, hot cocoa drink mix, etc. - I even have some stuffed animals to hand out to the kiddies to help keep them calm. <br>I have two 55-gallon plastic barrels with water in the basement. I got them from a local soda-pop manufacturer. It's how syrup is shipped to their business. I asked if they would sell them to me, and the guy said "we just throw them away, take as many as you like." I just rinsed them out with hot water and a little bleach, and filled them with water. <br>That covers the food going in, but what about when it wants to come back out? If your toilet isn't functional (and your yard is somewhat private), you can make an impromptu latrine with a post-hole digger. Leave the dirt by the side of the hole, and throw some back in after you use it. When it's full, just dig another one a few feet away. I even keep an old shower curtain as a 'privacy tent'. I use a piece of 1/2 inch EMT electrical tubing, bent into a square and hang the shower curtain from it. I've never actually used it, but I guess when you 'need to go', it'll work just fine. Don't forget toilet paper! You may have to give some to neighbors if they run out. <br>If you have babies - diapers, formula, etc. After an emergency, these things will be hard to find. Think about everything you use in your 'normal' life, and try to keep some on hand - just in case.<br>Sorry for talking so long, I guess it's the scout in me that likes to be prepared. <br>

You're electrical question is easy- lick two fingers... Seriously, you can get a good multimeter for about 40 bucks. If you or someone who might need your kit doesn't know how to use one, you can get a little plug tester. It's mostly used to check wiring, but it will tell you if you have current and if you have too much, while warning you if you have a bad ground.<br><br>With your canned soups and veggies, don't forget the instant rice if you can cook. You might not think about it, but the rice will give you extra food, if you use the cooking water of the canned goods, and you won't loose any value from veggie water. Add it to any kind of soup or gravy (water it down some), and you're in business. I know that instant chicken gravy and rice doesn't sound like much, but it might be better than nothing.<br><br>And forget about containing cooking smells in an apartment building, unless the septic goes. That is the only smell that can cover food smells.

Irrr..... If there is a short, it might not be grounded. You touch, you become the ground. ZAAP!<br><br>If you have a doubt, don't trust anything electrical. Why do you think I don't trust computers further than I can throw them? (PDAs don't count- they can be skipped on water. )<br><br>If a breaker goes, it may have been from a surge outside or inside. Check everything, and if you can't find anything that looks likes signs of a problem (melty spots on casings, scorching, the smell of o-zone), reset it. If it throws again, you've still got a problem. <br><br>But then again, my electrical knowledge is all from electronics, little stuff.

I agree with you on the fire extinguishers. I did mention them, but it was just in passing, with the battery-powered smoke/CO detectors.<br><br>I've got you beat on the water- 4 55-gallon drums, 2 15-gallon drums (with nice handles that are a sick joke, at that weight), and 3 5-gallon bottles, not counting the contents of the water heater. Ok, I’m paranoid. That goes without saying. I’m HERE, aren’t I? :-)<br><br>As for sanitation, if you’re even more paranoid than I am, you might consider a check or gate valve on the sewer line from the house, if you’re not on a septic system. If the sewage treatment plants ever fail, I can’t think of anything that would ruin your preparations and force you to become a refugee faster than sewage backing into the house. Unfortunately, check valves tend to be iffy, you probably won’t know until too late if it ever closes, and gate valves require forewarning and a conscious decision to close. From experience with local governments, I consider forewarning unlikely.<br><br>For primitive sanitation, may I recommend that you check out “The Humanure Handbook”, subtitled “A Guide to Composting Human Manure, Emphasizing Minimum Technology and Maximum Hygienic Safety”, by J.C. Jenkins? I found it a very entertaining, even fascinating read, and unless the guy is just lying about his results, it would seem to be a breakthrough in primitive sanitation.<br><br>All that having been said, I’m a bit cynical on the issue. By the time sanitation becomes a serious problem, I suspect that FEMA and/or the National Guard will impose “forced evacuations” (for our own good, of course). They won’t care how well we've prepared or what we have to lose, and they won’t take “no” for an answer- forcing us to become refugees and separating us from 95 percent of our resources anyway.<br>

OK, so barring electricity (may not be turned back on yet) and gas (possible gas leaks) how do I warm up food in my apartment?

Skunk, Go to a Smart and Final outlet and buy a supply of Sterno fuel. It is nontoxic and each small can burns 45 minutes.

Do I also need the folding stove? Thanks for the recommendation.

The Sterno stove is cheap and dedicated to the fuel canisters, so why not? If you have time, cook with a few cans and see if you have something allready useable.

Hi Guys,<br><br>I am not a Sterno fan. I tried sterno on a bicycle trek once and I'll never do it again. They do warm things up but just barely. It takes forever to boil water for a cup of tea. <br><br>If you have a balacony on your apartment, how about a propane BBQ. Enjoy grilled food all year long and when the big one hits you are all set. Otherwise, you can find butane powered hot plates around for not much money. <br><br>David Koelzer

If quakes are easier to plan for, then why is it that I can get two day predicted tracks for hurricanes, but not for quakes? ;-) Tornados are also very easy to plan for if you live in the "right" part of the country - if it is between May and October, plan on having one.<br><br>Been thru all three. Hurricane Andrew was the easiest.<br><br>Alan

I suppose it comes down to a question of exactly which hurricane and which earthquake. Both vary considerably in intensity. It also makes a difference as to just where you happen to be with respect to the phenomenon - hurricanes have eyes and earthquakes have epicenters. In both cases, there is quite a difference between centrally located and somewhere on the margin.<br><br>One factor that makes a quake easier to plan for is that you don't need to plan for evacuation before the event - something that can be enormously complicated since everyone else will be using the same roads as you. My feelings about this are complicated by talking with my brother, who is the Public Health Director for Galveston County. There is only one way off of Galveston Island and it could get very crowded (He does not live on the island, incidentally.)<br><br>Much of the preparation for earthquakes consists of building or retrofitting adequate structures. At least in the United States, the loss of life in major quakes is relatively small. I believe that over the years, hurricanes have killed more people than earthquakes have (in the USA). So you don't have to go out and nail up plywood over windows, etc. at the last minute. You can prepare more or less at leisure and when earthquake season rolls around, you are ready! <br><br>Neither is exactly fun. Attempting to cheer my wife up, I mentioned that she should list all the things that she did not appreciate about our house, so that when we rebuilt after the big one, we could do things right. Somehow, that remark didn't seem to sit well with her, although it does make sense to me. I plan to put in a lot of sweat equity if (when) the Big One strikes fair Ventura.<br><br>In California, hurricanes and funnel clouds are virtually unknown, while some parts of the country - Texas, lower Mississippi valley - are exposed to all three hazards.<br><br>The predicted tracks are just that - predictions. Things have gotten real interesting when the hurricane didn't watch the Weather Channel and veered from the predicted path. And you can now get maps that predict the relative amount of damage from earthquakes of a given magnitude - its just the time factor that can't yet be controlled.<br><br>I guess in the end, I would prefer to be shaken, not stirred...

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I guess in the end, I would prefer to be shaken, not stirred... <p><hr></blockquote><p><br><br>Hah...I like that. Me too :)<br><br>ANyway I picked up 2 cans of Sterno but didn't find the stoves...guess I'll have to order 'em online or something.<br><br>Any advice?

You should have access to a Smart & Final store in L.A. They have the stoves. As an alternative, just find a suitably sized can and fabricate one!

Hey guys,<br><br>Seems like the start of a poll. Put me down for prefering hurricanes (especially the ones you get at Pat O'Brians:) I've been through three hurricanes (Elana, Andrew and I can't remember) while living on Mississippi's Gulf Coast. Elena ran right over where I was, the other two were peripherial hits. I've also been through two tornados. No earthquakes, though. <br><br>As Don said, you get some warning with hurricanes. Tornados generally give at least a few minutes. Earthquakes--zero. You may have made plans for dealing with a earthquake, but you get no control over where you are when it hits. Plenty of time for evacuation with hurricanes. A small amount of time with tornados, and none with earthquakes. I'll take the hurricanes anyday; that way I can watch them....on the news from a long way away.<br><br>Andy

I prefer "shake n' bake." It's what I'm used to. "Stir and mix with water" is alien to me. People are more comfortable with the familiar. So it largely depends on where you live.<br><br>John

John,<br><br>Better the devil you know, than the one you don't, eh? I agree.<br><br><br>Andy<br>

I swear by Trangia cook sets.<br>There was one morning when we ran out of cooking LPG and it was my trun to cook breakfast for the kids.<br>I pulled out my trusty trnagia 25 and whipped up some scrambled eggs / fish fingers and french toast for b'fast ( I couldn't stand another McDonald's breakfast ). <br>No moving parts / clean buring alcohol fuel / storm cooker and nice nesting cookset. Not fast, but efficient.<br>I bought one more set to put in my BOB.