Need to go unstuff a bag and stow some climbing gear, but a couple of comments about the subject from my perspective:<br><br>Ultra light is a separate topic and not one I have much personal experience with, so that's the caveat - N/A if you're thinking ultralight.<br><br>Packs: Pretty much everything written so far sounds good. However, I know that external frames are perfectly suitable - in special situations they may not be ideal, but they will do. And there are some things that the internal frame packs simply cannot do at all. I own and use both internal and external frame packs. I cannot even agree that one is more comfortable than another - a pack that fits and carries well with the gear you have in it feels good, period. And volume is an apples-orange comparison between most external and most internal packs because most externals carry the sleeping bag EXTERNALLY and most internals carry the sleeping bag INTERNALLY and that is usually the bulkiest thing we carry, so it is a significant difference. (Yes, I am aware of exceptions, but what I wrote is generally true). Make sure your pack of whatever design comfortably accomodates the gear you will use. When in doubt, you might consider going up a notch for now rather than down a notch because one may use a large pack for small loads, but it is miserable to impossible to use a small bag for large loads. (...but resist packing more gear than you need just because you have room for it...) I advise NOT purchasing a model unless you have first tried the specific model on in the store - and since there are many adjustments, often even for torso length, it's a good idea to have competant help trying them on.<br><br>Pads: Get a 3/8" thick CLOSED CELL pad, full length, for now. They are cheap and warm and there are things you can do to make them more comfortable without lugging anything extra. After you've used it for a season, you'll probably know what you want to replace it with - if anything - (and ask here if you don't know). There are lots of sublties to even foam pads, but that's the cheapest effective advice I can give you. If you plan on frequently sleeping on hard frozen ground, a 1/2" thick is a little better, but they are a lot bulkier. IMHO, a 1/4" pad is a waste of money for most folks. Oh - and ditto what Chris wrote - get a ground cloth and use it. Ask if you have questions... Oh, on the self inflating pads - we have two ancient Thermorest pads. They have been used constantly for almost 20 years. One had a pinhole leak a few years ago and it was trivial to find and repair the leak (with a kit intended for use in the boonies). They are slower to self-inflate than when they were new, but a far sight more comfortable than anything else of comparable bulk. Things like that need to be stored uncompressed, though, and a closed cell pad can be left wound up.<br><br>Knit cap: Ditto everything everyone said. Tight ones suck. We carry one year round and two when cold weather is expected - use a "fresh" cap when climbing in the bag. Keeps the bag cleaner, to boot - bags take a beating from oil and dirt from the head.<br><br>Last comment: Do not store your sleeping bag stuffed. It will permanently compress the fill to some degree and then you have a bag that is not as warm as it was - but still just as heavy. In my experience, only the highest quality down bags may recover from being left stuffed for an extended period. None of the synthetic fill bags will fully recover from extended compression. If you need suggestions on how to safely store a sleeping bag at home, just ask here.<br><br>Hope that helps! Like I wrote, you already got some great advice... just my 2 cents worth.<br><br>Tom<br><br>

I wouldn't recommend an external frame as the first pack to obtain, because those "special situations" are going to arise sooner or later. I began converting to internal frame rigs when traversing toe and handhold trails in rockly Arizona canyons. Whenever my good old Kelty frame would graze the rock, it would transmit a vey disturbing jolt to my body, often at a very unwelcome time. Frames also hang up much more often in underbrush.<br><br>On the other hand, I have carrried electric generators, chainsaws, and paleontological specimens on frames, and they are the only way to go for these specialized uses. A couple of years ago, I packed a 95 pound mammoth bone FPJ (full plaster jacket) about half a mile across a stream and up out of a canyon. Did I ever make deep footprints! Of course, the best way to deal with these situations is to talk a fellow crew member into carrying the load..right, Chris?<br><br>Over the years, an external frame has gone from mainstay status to something I employ only for special uses. I don't presently own one, because, from where the sun now stands, I will carry no more chainsaws..

Good advice. I grew to resent my Kelty while trying to traverse boulder fields in the rain. Not only was it wobbly, but every time I stubbed a toe, I'd lurch forward against the pack straps, then a second later the pack, inspired by this, would smack me on the back like a freight train while I was balancing on wet rock. This was solo, in a true wildnerness area with no rangers, and no one knew exactly where I was. A broken leg could have been a problem.<br><br>On the other hand, I've seen a number of beginners with internal-frame packs adjust them so that the frame wasn't really doing anything at all.<br><br>Though not a paleontologist, I can sympathize. I once hiked a waterlogged whale vertebra for some miles over soft sand, lashed to the outside of a Gregory day-and-a-half pack (no frame at all, just a padded back). Wasn't fun. The looks I got when getting back to the populated beaches were.. memorable. The vertebra now has a place of honor on my bookshelves.

A look at horsepacking equipment may be illuminating. The old standby, the sawbuck ( looks like a carpenter's sawhorse) is an external frame. Loads must be well balanced and padding is critical. The Decker is an internal frame and much more comfortable for the pack animal. Both systems can be unbalanced, overloaded and improperly fitted. Both systems can get the job done, including packing a piano to a mountain lodge! Campers in new backpacks reminds me of astronauts; clumsy, overburdened and in hostile territory. I like the Aussie "Swagman" carry; a bedroll ( sleeping bag) slung under one shoulder, waterbag opposite with a light backpack, and my pockets full of essentials. A hiking staff is appreciated only by it's user. If I have to climb anything my paracord is adequate for hauling my gear up in stages SAFELY. Wilderness hiking or survival is not about speed ( excepting flash floods and skunks.)

Don't really have a strong opinion for or against specific types of packs. Some features though....<br><rant on><br>Don't get any pack designed where there is a strain load accross a zipper! If there must be a zipper it should be at the top so when it splits open due to over stuffing or falling on it your stuff won't be as likely to spill out. Zippers are very convenient but they should not be relied upon. If you can close it with a cord and flap for rain protection then don't use a zipper. I have had back and side loading pockets and packs with zippers running lengthwise of the pack and they have invariably split open when I was more that a days walk from civilization. Yes you can strap some compression straps around and make it back or lacking compression straps use the paracord wrapped around your psk. it will never seal well enough to ensure that things are not falling out as you walk. Get a top loading pack with pockets that load from the top. If you need to get a pack with two compartments make them both top loading and make sure that it comes with strapping that will support the lower compartment so that the zipper between doesn't take the strain. then always snug that strapping. Those packs that have a big U shapped zipper that lets the entire back of the pack peal downward and give you great access to your stuff aren't worth the time it takes to burn them. There is no way to make a zipper strong enough to handle reasonable use in that configuration and there aren't enough straps on earth to take the strain off that zipper. If you strap / tie it up enough to take the strain off that zipper then you have lost all of the convenience of the big zipper in the first place cause you must unstrap and untie to get in. Get a top loader and deal with taking the stuff on the top out to get at the stuff on the bottom. Just deal with it. <br></rant off>

Like I said, I pretty much agree with everything written so far <grin>. I use what is suitable in my collection of gear and most short trips (like this past weekend) I use an internal frame. But... in my present collection of gear I don't have an internal that is suitable for anything more than a weekend trip with a winter sleeping bag unless I use my down sleeping bag (presently hors d' combat and not high on my list of "things to fix"). Again, make sure the sleeping bag will fit where you want it to go (there is a "prefered" location on any pack) - that's the main point I wanted to make w.r.t. the types, because simple volume comparisons don't tell the whole story.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom

Some folks will get pretty riled over their preferences on the internal frame vs. external frame debate. In fact, I’m pleasantly surprised that the topic is so tame on the forum so far. Perhaps we’re all flamed out. &#61514;<br><br>Anyway, I have an internal frame pack from www.sportsmansguide.com. I bought their house brand Guide Gear pack. It’s not listed on the web site right now so I don’t know if it will be available again. But it’s a huge pack and I think I paid $70 for it. I though that was a good price, not too expensive if I ended up not liking it. They have Eurika’s and Kelty’s and other packs as well. Mostly last year’s models and colors.<br><br>The Kelty web site has some tips on fitting internal frame packs, which is key to comfort. The actual length of the staves compared to your torso length, and then bending the staves to contour with the curvature of your back. If you buy from a store, they should be able to help you out on both accounts. If you can’t find the info, let me know via a private message and I can email you a 2-3 PDF files on the subject.<br>

>>Some folks will get pretty riled over their preferences on the internal frame vs. external frame debate. <<<br><br>Uh, if you say so. <br><br>Personally, I am offended, affronted, and... personally threatened by the way you like your eggs fixed, and I demand that you acknowledge that my eggs are better, you heretic. :-)

I'm really dating myself here, but does anyone else remember the old Gerry (Cunningham) external-frame design that was almost ALL horizontal zippers? Seems like it had about a dozen of them, all the way across (no side pockets). Ranks right up there with wraparound frames in my book. Back in the "Easy Rider" days they sold a million of them in red, white, and blue horizontal panels. Don't think I ever saw one actually in the woods, but there were an awful lot hitchhiking the highways.