I've lost track of which thread is which - knives, youth, nuclear weapons by age 9, whatever <grin>.<br><br>I'm frustrated (and concerned) about most of what most everyone has had to say about (take your pick) American society, BSA, parents, kids, and whatever else we've been thrashing around the last few days. <shrug> Not being a savior (self appointed or otherwise), I try to content myself with controling what I can, influencing what I can, and discussing what I would do if *I* were in charge of _______ (fill in the blank) with a close friend or two from time to time - usually accompanied by an appropriate beverage. The keyboard just ain't an acceptable substitute for face-to-face <sigh>...<br><br>Oh - James, the observation I made about the rants had nothing to do with anything you said - sorry if that wasn't clear. You weren't under attack. Viewed dispassionately and honestly, those comments that I was thinking of and the context they were made in are amusing (at least to me) - and the most accurate term for what I read is "ironic". I'm not going to say any more about THAT because one either gets it or it's not worth explaining - like most humerous things.<br><br>A few thoughts:<br><br>1. Yeah, too darned many Scout units are like "that" to varying degrees. Way too many. View from within: primary cause is adult "leadership". Turn that rock over, and we see some parents (not all) scuttling away from the light. Dig a little deeper and we find much of contemporary society, which I could rant about to the end of my days. What I do not find is BSA as a problem. I'm not sure Willie has his decades right (he may) - I thought it was the late 70's to mid 80's that BSA was organizationally worthless. I have many disagreements with BSA and the occasional bone to pick, but overall it's got too many good points to toss out. And there ARE good - strike that - GREAT units out there. More later... because I seek input and ideas for real-world application.<br><br>2. Sadly, I find little to disagree with RE: the parent comments - on the face of it. Going deeper in this forum is likely to be fruitless w.r.t. changing that. However, not ONCE did anyone mention the possability that not ALL parents are like that. It's darned hard to bring up kids differently than everyone else, but some manage to do so. Soooo... more to the point... how to maneuver around those circumstances for the benefit of the kids instead of relegating them to the cultural trash bin because they live where they live and how they live?<br><br>3. Presumed_Lost made a very interesting observation about the "7s". It's still in place, but somewhat in camo. And in a picture-perfect Scouting experience, that's just how it's laid out - sorta like an overlay. More on that later - there is substance to work with.<br><br>4. Most lads are NOT in scouting. So be it. With or without scouts, in the world we live in, what sorts of useful ideas are there here that can be applied to kids upbringings? Heck, living is surviving until you die. Situations and circumstances vary. A lot of folks here - some of whom are NOT parents - have a lot of good ideas. I'm listening....<br><br>5. Growing older is not optional. Growing up is <grin>. I still know how to be a boy (altho it hurts the bod sometimes) and behave like it when it's appropriate. Therefore, I'm too busy having fun and enjoying life to stay bent out of shape over any of this - hope everyone else can kick back and enjoy the company here, too. Sure would be neat to have an ETS rendezvous in a suitable location... I'd like to meet a number of the folks in these forums in the high country (my favorite).<br><br>I've got to go stuff my sleeping bag and toss a pair of socks and some climbing gear in my ready pack 'cause wife and I are going camping and climbing all weekend with some other old fogeys starting right after work tomorrow, but I'd like to re-visit some of the things tossed around in a PRODUCTIVE way after we get back. Hopefully, we'll all have either finished venting for the time being or otherwise cooled off enough (I'm working on the cooling off part of it) by Sunday PM or thereabouts to do so.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom, er, Scouter Tom

I, too, believe that these threads that will not die may need a rest. I want to move on with other matters.<br><br>As a hopefully final note on this subject, I would like to make one concluding observation:<br><br>All of the participants in this thread have shown a great deal of passion in their various arguments as to how our children should be raised, trained, & developed. I think we need to appreciate that the high level of passion is appropriate to such an important subject, notwithstanding the divergent approaches (with which we may disagree). But I'm still not gonna let the 9-year get his own chainsaw. :-))<br><br>I would urge that all of us direct our passions on this matter to actually helping boys learn outdoor & related skills. If you're not presently rearing children, leading scouts, or engaging in similar endeavors, think about actually doing it. We have learned a lot of very useful knowledge & skills. Let's make sure that we are genuinely helping to transmit it to future generations. In the process, we can help boys learn the many lessons involved in growing up. If available organizations seem dysfunctional, work to improve them. If that is not possible, find other & productive groups. If they are not available, start some.<br><br>Anyway, just a thought from this frazzled brain.<br><br>John<br><br>P.S. Tom, I hope you have a great trip.

ok then, no worries.<br>have a nice trip.<br>-james <br>

I'm sure it was around 1974-75 when they changed because I was effected by the new Eagle requirements, which they added a new merit badge or two (Citizenship in the World & Environmental Science I believe), as well as upped the number of required badges from 21 to 24 (it's back down to 21). BTW, I never did make Eagle, just Life. I had 31 merit badges but was missing 3 of the required ones. I have some regret over that, but not too much as I gained so much from the program. It's where I grew up.<br><br>Where are you climbing? There aren't too many weekend locations for rock climbing in the midwest. Next week our troop is headed to Starved Rock. I'm looking forward to the soul cleansing one gets from living under a big sky for a while.<br><br>Have fun