This is a some thread. Lets please measure our remarks and not get any more hair pulled out or feathers ruffled ( down jackets are expensive.) James, don't be angry. Modern society has lost meaningfull "rites of passage." We have getting a driver's license or having the first legal sip of beer: no ritual scarification, secret stories told in the sweatlodge or killing a lion. Maybe thats why we have PSKs, a bit of re franchisement as men ( and women) in self determination. Id rather tell stories in a sauna than get marooned again ;O) As to my getting voted off early? HAH! We'd be having "longmeat" the first night and that show director would be missing. Id drag all the equipment to the native people never mentioned, anounced I was John From ( ask HikerDon to explain) and live the good life!

I am the product of an eclectic up-bringing. My father was a serious mountaineer and professor (read the Butchers Axe for more on his exploits). He taught me what he could about being a man before my Mother divorced him for many reasons - one of them being that she didn't feel safe about the risks he allowed us to take as children. She then enrolled me in the scouts (where I did much the same things though with less experienced mentors) Then we move from rural midwest (Rolla Missouri) to very urban New-England and lived for a while in an urban slum. The risks changed from falling into a cave while spelunking with my father to getting shot by a drive-by. I maintained my love of the outdoors and when emancipated from both my parents and my rebellious extended adolesence I returned to the White Mountains where my father learned his skiills. I am a member of the Appalachain Mountain club ( occassionally though unfairly derided as an elitist reserve of weekend warriors and eco-nazis) and now a member on this forum. While I am sure that my father would agree with all of the scout bashing I have been reading I am equally sure that the worst of this derision would more fittingly apply to my Mother than the Scouts. If I could find an organization as decent as the boy Scouts for my daughters I would sign them up immediately. I've not been blessed with boys yet. With the time consumed by paying the mortgage and what-not I haven't time to teach them all that they should be taught. I manage to get them out of the house most weekends and attempt what I might. I often check here and other similar resources for confirmation on how and when others teach what to their own young-uns and with what succes or failure.<br><br>I have enjoyed this forum for a few months now and even get some entertainment from the more heated exchanges. This last on how youths are perceived / treated / raised is both informative and entertaining and I thank you all. I do find that the posts specifying how an individual deals with their own young-uns are the informative ones and those remarking (praising / criticizing / deriding) on how others are dealing with theirs are the entertaining ones. I come here for both entertainment and information (perhaps I should get a life) so this is all good for me. There may be some who come only for information (or who don't appreciate bickering as much as I do) who might not want to wade through the entertainment to get at the information. Certainly keeping the entertainment on the campfire helps alot.

Ok, ok. I’ve said repeatedly that I’m not a parent, and was never a Scout, and as such am not much qualified to comment. That disclaimer doesn’t seem to be quite enough, so it’s time for me to drop the thread.<br><br>I’ll be the first to admit that my upbringing should not be a model for anyone else’s. Perhaps that’s why I’m not a parent. The last five years or so of my time in my parent’s home was basically a million variations on the same conversation:<br><br>“But, why can’t I do it?”<br><br>“We just don’t think you’re mature enough to handle it yet.”<br><br>“How do you know when I’m mature enough?”<br><br>“When you show enough responsibility.”<br><br>“How do I show responsibility?”<br><br>“By doing the right thing without being told.”<br><br>“Who determines what the right thing is?”<br><br>“We do.”<br><br>“So, basically you’re saying that I’m responsible when I do exactly what you want me to do, without being told, and I can make my own decisions so long as they’re the decisions you would have made for me anyway.”<br><br>“You got it.”<br>

Presumed,<br>Though you may not be a parent yet or ever a scout you have contributed greatly to my understanding and I very much appreciate your on-going contributions. It is refreshing and helpful to be reminded that experience is the best teacher of responsibility at all ages.<br>Thanks<br>Brad<br><br>p.s. a link to a write up on my father Jim Maxwell

>>>As to my getting voted off early? HAH! We'd be having "longmeat" the first night and that show director would be missing. <<<<br><br>ROTFLOL!!!!!<br><br>The ratings would go through the ceiling... sort of a Real-life Crocadile Dundee meets Survivor. I love it.

thanks Chris, i'll try not to ge tso angry in the future.<br>-james

<<Id drag all the equipment to the native people never mentioned, anounced I was John From ( ask HikerDon to explain) and live the good life! >><br><br>LoL! Hmmm... do you think they'd believe you? Maybe at least until the batteries expired... <grin><br><br>Tom

Im talking about Micronesian Cargo cults. During WW2 the native people were amazed at the big birds that brought all this wonderfull stuff from heaven. When the militay left, they said "John from America" wouldl come back with more stuff. There are still shrines with small wood carved airplanes devoted to the great John From. This has naturally exasperated various missionaries, government officials etc. with other agendas for these people. When ever a religous group or cult approaches me, I merely state Im a cargo cultist and do they have a big silver bird full of stuff for me ;^)

ROTFLMAO!!<br><br>Chris, can those of us who have to put up with self-appointed saviors on a regular basis borrow this?

*Raven scrathes head with foot*<br><br>Uh, PL, you describing parents, or government officials? <br><br>:)<br><br>

Sounds like parents, govt. Officials, bosses, and anyone else given authority over us without our direct consent. I just had a "meeting" with my boss where she requested me to take the lead in designing the solutions to problems that were defined in my absence and not to bother her for the details. I should do the work necessary to investigate the issue and propose a solution without pestering her for the details of how the problem is defined, who defined it, who is working on it also, what parts of the product it affects or what it will integrate with or what degree of freedom I should take in modifying the rest of the interacting parts of the system. I dutifully said I would continue to endeavor to be as good at that as possible. I appologized for having failed her significantly enough that she needed to pull me aside and mention my failing. She was mollified ( and hopefully her menstrual cycle will be over next week :^))

Of course, just don't close your soul to real holy persons. One of my most memorable days was introducing a catholic brother from a California monastery to a tibetan monk. The brother was chinese, and bore scars on his wrists from 12 years shackled in a PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. prison . My friend Rinpoche escaped tibet and walked with a limp after jumping from a third story window. One would make a observation and the other immediately understand his point. Different paths, same destination and I sat there looking like a benevolent dummie.

Chris,<br><br>Stop the jokes: I need to get up off the floor & stop laughing.<br><br>I loved the part "As to my getting voted off early: HAH! We'd be having 'longmeat' for dinner the first night and that show director would be missing." <br><br>After the first episode of Survivor, I discovered that survival depended upon a participant's socially manipulative skills, so I stopped watching. Am I correct in concluding that the director would be the dinner on your island.<br><br>By the way, I've lost my capacity for anger--at least until I have time enough to grow more hair.<br><br>Thanks for the regular injections of levity.<br><br>John

Well, actually, I was thinking of the kind of person who leaves Watchtower in the break room and tries to talk to thier co-workers about the miracle of "salvation". <br><br>After a while, it gets old, and you start looking for something heavy and cheap to drop on thier head. At least I do.

Stumbled across in my wanderings:<br><br>http://www.themightyorgan.com/travel_cargo.html<br>

I loved it! the sillier a custom seems, the more there is to understand. I want Lapp lapp porridge for my bug out bag. The Irish oatmeal is wearing thin ;O)

>>the sillier a custom seems, the more there is to understand<<<br><br>So, I guess we can look forward to seeing you parading with "USA" written across your chest in day-glo pink magic marker?<br><br>Actually, I think there are a lot of resonant themes, even some in modern society we'd probably rather not examine.<br>