I recently purchased a Mini-RSK (GREAT knife for the price BTW) for my wife and she doesn't understand why I feel you should always have a light and a knife with you at all times. She sees why you might want the light, but indicates she never really has the need for a knife.

I'm from Alaska, and as my mother pointed out, basically all men there carry a knife, so as far as I'm concerned, not carrying a knife is the oddity. Even so, my mother thinks this is sort of a "guy" thing.

From my perspective, I see the knife as such a rudimentary tool that I can't quite articulate why in terms that my wife (and mother) would understand.

I've seen this come up here before, so I thought perhaps I'd put up this challenge for someone to capture it on paper in a somewhat (an urban) PC context, so that all of us with this problem might benefit.

Thanks!

-john

I don't think it'll work.

I don't know your audience, but I've been in similiar situations. On the surface, it looks like a "use" argument... "Why would you need to carry a knife?". But it's not. There's almost always a deeper objection. Figure out what it is, and address that. Some people are afraid of knives. Some people associate a knife with a certain personality type, and assume anyone carrying a knife must either be like that, or is trying to be like that (what are you, Rambo or something)? Some regard the knife carrier as less mature or less civilized. Too often "Guy Thing" seems to mean "immature".

You know what another "guy thing" is? The ability to ignore anyone and everyone regarding any particular issue. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

That said, I use my knife a lot. Cut open packages, bags, etc. Mail opener. Remove frayed threads. Slice my sandwich. Cut my steak. Cut up cardboard boxes before trashing them. Lots of day to day things. I like the positive reinforcement I get from taking the time and effort to learn how to hand sharpen my knife. The sharper I can get it, the easier and more enjoyable each of these tasks become.

If you haven't been together long enough, under enough circumstances, for her to get it, we won't be able to tell her.

It took several years before my wife/other understood not merely the utility, but the necessity of carrying a knife at all times.

Interestingly, after Katrina, she no longer questions my knife/light/gun by the bed obsession/compulsion.

I guess I come by mine honestly, though. I grew up on a ranch, where a knife is litterlaly more important than your pants. And, both my father and uncle were in the pacific in WWII. My dad was on nasty little islands where they slept with a .45 and a knife under their pillows, when they had pillows. The knife was to cut yourself out of the tent. My uncle was exec on an av-gas tanker, and a knife was considered to be an essential extrication tool.

I am remided of the cliche, "why ask why?"

I think it's important to be able to articulate to yourself why a knife on the person is a good idea. It may make you more proficient with it and imaginitive with its applications.

Something like having the basic sharpened wedge of forged steel, though, strikes me as more of a question of "why not" rather than "why." With the way everyone pats about themselves to make sure they have the mind-bendingly unimportant minutia of the wallet, keys, the enormous tangle of useless items I typically see in purses, etc., how can we not have the same number of and hopefully better proofs that having a knife on hand is a good idea? Don't let the complexities of a red-taped record-keeping culture blind you to the basic needs of a human. Can your wife really give you more real life examples of how she will need to whip out that extra makeup compact and social security card than you can for using a sharpened piece of metal? How deeper can you delve in terms of basic human needs or preparedness?

Not that this definitely addresses your specific issue, but I remember getting in huge trouble with my parents when I was 14 and they found I was carrying a lighter; they were sure I was smoking, but I just had it in case I needed to start a fire. I had this same argument with them, and I think it is applicable to your knife deal:

It's a very valid point to say "why would you ever have to start a fire?" However, I think that it's even MORE valid, and therefore eradicates the need for specific examples, to say "if I ever DID need to, imagine how hard it would be without one."

I've been lucky with my girlfriend because she doesn't object to my knives and gadgets.

However, getting her and my mother to carry some gear wasn't easy. They both agreed that flashlights would be useful since my mother was locked in an elevator that fell down two floors. The lights went out and they had to be taken out by firefighters. The marshall, after inspecting the elevator told the ten people that were inside that a flashlight and a screwdriver would have been enough to open the door from the inside.

Small survival kits and vehicle kits also seemed to be OK if I made them and they didn't get in the way.

Knives were the toughest. No amount of logic was enough because, even though they don't see knives as weapons they do think they are a guy thing. I found SAKs to be a very good way to get them into knives.

I bought my girlfriend a SwissCard, she carried it and liked it. Then I have her a Midnite Manager, she liked it a lot, too, and found it very useful. Then came a regular sized Huntsman and a year or two after that she started carrying a small lockback I had customized for her (I've found that some women need a "cuteness" factor in their knives). A couple of days ago, she borrowed my Ritter Grip. My work with her is done.

My mother is still stuck in the Midnite Manager stage, but she usually travels in her car where I've placed some trusty fixed blades in different kits.

Anyway, that's what worked for me. Sometimes logic isn't the easy way, and going from no knife to a full sized one hand opener can be a big strech. Try the SAK idea, not even the most anti-knife PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. say no to a SAK. I know they aren't hardcore survival folders, but they can be very useful and are a whole lot better than no knife at all.

Thanks for the feedback so far. Some very good points.

I do admit that she already had a small SAK in her purse and I didn't even prompt that. She also reluctaintly put the Mini-RSK in her purse. She doesn't really care that I EDC a flashlight and a knife, although she does think I'm a little silly to do so.

So, this isn't really an issue of convincing her to carry the knife, but convincing her that it is a good idea. Basically she is just humoring me.

I guess from one perspective, if she ever really needs a knife, she'll become a beliver on her own, but it does seem to me that it would be optimal that she thought it was importaint, or she might leave it out at some point and latter need it. Also, I think it would be more optimal if she carried on her person instead of the purse, but that won't happen without belief of importance.

In general, this is just a mini example of the whole idea about being prepared and how some people think it is "odd" to prepare in this way.

Again, thanks for all your thoughts so far!

-john

I've seen so many people attempt to use their car keys as a knife to cut the tape on boxes or as a screwdriver to tighten a loose screw in their chair/desk/eyeglasses/etc that I'm amazed people don't at least carry a multitool. I think I use mine for something every day, knife blade or some other part.

Good grief -- my mother, at the age of 78, EDCs a S&W Centenial Airweight loaded with Glazers. She's getting old, so she only practices with mid-range wad. Plus P's, she says, are hard on her wrist.

Instead of trying to explain or justify it, I would use first-hand experiences to illustrate your point.

Maybe a camping trip would help. You could conveniently forget your flashlights at home. Show up at the campground at dark. Attempt to set-up tent. (Of course you'll suffer from not much sleep that night).

Or perhaps removing all the knives from the kitchen would work. When your wife asks why you did so, mention you didn't think she needed them anymore. (You'll probably suffer by not getting a meal).

Granted, I'm being a little cynical. But I've put together emergency kits and given gifts of a preparedness nature and most of them sit on a shelf somewhere gathering dust.

Sadly, unless most people have a need or reason to use the tools, they can't be convinced of how useful they truly are.

Sorry for the repeat post, but has she ever asked to borrow your knife?

Generally speaking, I believe these types of tools are convenient for a lot of good reasons we can all think of. But more importantly these things are necessary for all the things we can't think of. Nobody ever showed up at a house fire with a fire extinguisher, they show up with a fire truck. The fire extinguisher is for when you did not expect the fire. Generally speaking I look at everything I EDC as an "option", if someone breaks into my house, my absolute last choice is to use a gun. But I want the option. I consider myself an intelligent person and I am sure she is too, she doesn't need the knife for the things she can imagine now, she needs the knife for the situation she can't predict, where she will want the "option" of using it. Specifically, a knife is one of those things which is tough to create at the last minute.

He he, thats why my wife got a leatherman micra for christmas one year because she was always borrowing my wave. She looked at it like a young boy who got socks and underwear (disapointed) but then started using it all the time and a couple years later wanted a new one since all the paint had worn off hers. So I bought her one of the new squirts the year they came out from a place on the internet who specializes in personalized gifts. So when she was showing off her new leatherman with her name on it at work all the girls in the office were like "what do you need that for" but then started borrowing it all the time. After she quit that job to go back to school she became the person in class who everyong would go to fir a knife or scissors.

Yeah? She liked the Squirt?

Go find a long DC'd Leatherman called a Flair, with corkscrew, cocktail fork, and pate spreader. It is my personal favorite!

It still has all the usual stuff, and when I'm going to do much, it's still a Wave, but it sure is fun to pull out the cocktail fork in mixed company. Think about it -- whip out the multi tool off your belt, open it up, and voile! Really lays the wimps hair back.

Both of us have come from families with alcoholics in them and we have seen the damage caused by both alcoholisim and social drinking so neier of us drink at all and neither of us would want to have a corkscrew anywhere around so I've avoided any multitools with corkscrews.

The oldest, most common surviving artifact of humanity is the 'aechulian hand axe' a clumsy name for the teardrop shaped lithic tools found throughout the old world. How old? if you accept evolutionary theory they were the SAKs of mankind when he still wasn't quite fine tuned himself, or still a half finished lump of clay or dirt pile waiting for the fingers or breath of God to settle on the finished product. No doubt other skills such as cordage making, knotting and fire of course were early inventions. But it was that ancient cutting edge that everything is based on ; disposable diapers, this computer keyboard, canned whip creme. Is it any wonder we can bring this stuff onto an airliner, yet the one ancient companion we MODIFY OUR ENVIRONMENT TO HELP US is confiscated? Oetzi's last line of defense on that snow covered mountaintop was a knife. The Roman Senate bypassed lengthy impeachment hearings over Cleopatra's dress and simply 'stuck it ' to Caesar in the Senate itself, the last gasp of a Republic gone mad with empire. The Vikings recognised the universal utility of a knife, codifying laws that guaranteed even a slave's right to carry a knife. We shake hands with our knife or sword arm and (thanks to rennaissance italian nobles) open doors for our women to take an assassin's dagger first. Periodicaly society gets all happyface and sings about "flowers in your hair" but 3+ decades later Bobby Darren is still singing about MACK THE KNIFE on a custom car stereo installation misswire that causes the engine computer sensing units to cut out over 50 MPH. Then your british mechanic unscrews it with his SAK, mutters " whats all this then" deploys THE BADE, and like Alexander the Great solves the riddle of the Gordian knot <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This is from one of James Mattis' posts on BF (reposted a while ago by Esav). I didn't meet the man, but I couldn't agree more:

"My good reason to carry a knife is that God gave me rather weak teeth and rudimentary claws in an evolutionary trade-off. The hairy-armed person who figured out how to put an edge on a suitable rock made it possible for us to be recognizably human in the first place.

I wear a wristwatch whether or not I have an appointment to keep, and I carry a pen and/or pencil because I am a literate person whether or not I have a specific writing task ahead of me, and I carry a knife because I am a human and not an ape.

A knife comes in handy for all sorts of random tasks that involve separating matter. Like cutting a string, or making a sandwich, or opening a package. It can also come in handy in an emergency, which need not involve a human assailant, and emergencies are by their nature unforeseen, so one should carry a knife all the time.

And in a perfect world where nobody needed a weapon, I'd probably carry a slightly larger knife, because it wouldn't scare people.

-- James K. Mattis z”l

Eloquent. Have I said I'm glad you are here?

Folks, Francisco knows everything there is to know about the SAK.

I'm a woman, and I have no problem with knives.

Dad always made us wear watches and carry knives. He would sometimes spring an unexpected test on us, "Let me use your knife," even though we knew perfectly well he had his own knife in his pocket.

In Junior High, I was the opener of stubborn ketchup packets and divider of shared candybars. When the pricipal caught me spreading mustard on a hamburger with my SAK, (this was before students were searched for weapons on a daily basis) he asked me where I got it. My Dad gave it to me. "Well, don't go threatening anyone with it." And that was it. My cutom engraved SAK (Dad gave it to me!) fell out of my pocket one day during marching band and I was heartbroken!

These days, my job requires me to carry heavy duty pruning shears that are always sharp. Because of that, I've slacked on on my knife carrying, but now that I am reading the forum I realize I need to get back in the habit. Pruning shears are great and all, but they don't have tweezers in the handle!

Why would a woman want a knife? Well, if she gets a package in the mail, she doesn't have to go to the kitchen and use the paring knife to open her package, then wash the paring knife before putting it back in the knife block. She can just use her pocket knife.

If she is taking her knitting or embroidery with her to the doctor's office and working on it in the waiting room, the scissors of a pocket knife are easier to fit in her purse than those big Ginghers.

If she is on a walk and sees a nice rose she'd like to get a cutting off of, she has a knife with her. She doesn't have to go all the way home and get her pruning shears.

If it's raining cats and dogs and her Final Exams start in twenty minutes and she doesn't have an umbrella, and she has to run into the student book store and buy an umbrella, and she'd like to remove the tag . . .

If she scrapes the bejeezus out of her shin and needs to bandage it, but there's no bandaid big enough, so she has to improvise with guaze and a cotton pad but there's no way to cut the guaze to length because someone took the scissors out of the first aid kit and forgot to put them back . . .

I'm sure you can think of more instances. :-)

A word of caution. I was in a similar situation three or four years ago. I bought my wife a CRKT Navajo. Perfecrt for her. I knew she was carrying it, because sometime later she asked for another one becaue she lost the first one. I got her another one. Then she wanted a Letherman squirt, then a Buck Metro (she thought it was cute.) I bought her a Spyderco Salsa and she gave it back saying that the lock wasn't ergonomic. Its gotten to the point that I have to get her one when ever I want one. Dear God, I've created a monster.

Good thing I didn't buy her a 1911.

Biscuits

Why a knife?

Because I'm not the sort of person who like to wait for someone else to come and fix things. Problem? Fixed. Move on.

TRO

Heh. Nice. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"A lady always carries a knife."

Biscuits, I'd be happy for that problem. Heck, I wouldn't even mind have the problem with the 1911.

-john

It is a nice problem to have. I don't think I was complainin', more likely I was braggin'.

Biscuits

Recently I was sitting in the Atlanta airport waiting for a flight with a large group of firefighters. One of the firefighters had just bought a PSP from an airport shop; while he was fighting with the multilayered package he asked (jokingly) if anyone had a knife. Every single one of us reached to our pocket only to realize we had been disarmed of our most basic tool by the TSA! It was an extremely funny scene, although disturbing at the same time.

My knife is an essential everyday tool, hardly day goes by where I don?t use mine. Now, I believe a knife is a tool, not an object to be coveted and protected? keep that in mind as you read on. I typically carry one of two knifes (or more commonly both) every day. The first knife is a Gerber Applegate (full sized) that is pretty beat up (cosmetically) but holds an edge exceptionally well. The second is a Leatherman Juice XE6, while I prefer my Wave that I carry when I am in the backcountry; the Juice is lighter and better suited for EDC. In the last 48 hours alone I have used one or both of these tools for the following: cutting packing tape, cutting rope & webbing, prying a suck button open on an iron, opening a beer bottle (or 6 <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ), cutting my toenails, prying open a locked door, and removing an hotel key card that has managed to get itself stuck between the windshield and dash of my rental car.

I agree with earlier posts that a knife is a tool for situations that you cannot plan for. Just like the rest of my EDC stuff, you never know what you?re going to encounter or what you will need.

I think that about sums it up. Some of us consider it a most basic of tools and some people don't.

BTW, the Juice XE6 is a nice tool. It is what I have in my kit and I what I connived my wife to put in her purse to replace her old SAK.

However, I find it interesting you carry the Wave when hiking - I would think smaller and lighter (although it is about as heavy as the full size tools) would be better. The XE6 has pretty much all the same tools I thought. Why lug the Wave?

In the end, I guess I should feel lucky - she let me (although she did make me squirm quite a bit) add the following to her purse:

- SF E2e (bright)
- Doug Spec Firefly w/2 stage switch (medium & low)
- Mini RSK in yellow
- Juice XE6
- (4) spare 123A batteries

So I guess I don't have anything to complain about. I just wish she wasn't just humoring me. :-)

"I can't complain, but sometimes I still do."

-john

I carry the Wave when backcountry because I like it's size. I typically don't carry a second folding knife, only the Wave and a sheath knife usually a Benchmade NIMRAVUS, or a K-Bar mini-nightfighter. It all depends on what I am doing, and where I am going.

I'm trying to remember the layout of the Atlanta airport but all the airports I've been to blur together in my mind - except for Atlanta's cool elevated tram.

Are you saying that the firefighter bought one of Doug's Personal Survival Paks at an airport behind (after) the security check?

That makes no sense to me since the PSP contains a scalpel. Maybe the store was before security. Did the firefighter have to remove the scalpel before boarding the plane?

I just assumed he meant Play Station Portable. Mine came in one of those industrial strength blister packs. You know, the kind that are tough to get open even with a knife?

Yup, that was the PSP I was talking about.

I am a wife, a mother, a BSA Asst. Scoutmaster and I usually carry a pocketknife. My husband carries a pocketknife at all times and has since he was a lad. My son (age 11) carries a knife when he is not attending school. We live in Washington State. I didn't like carrying a knife until my hubby found me a very low profile knife that didn't make a large bulge in my pocket. It is nice and flat and that makes it much nicer to carry. I also have super-sharp small keychain-sized knives in each vehicle hung right on the turn indicator stem. These get much more use than I ever anticipated. They are really handy and though not quite as easy as carrying a knife in pocket, they are conveniently located. Try this for your wife. Once she sees how often she uses the blade, she might see for herself why some people choose to carry a pocketknife.
Laura

would you mind posting the brand, the problems you describe (bulge) are exactly the same as my fiancee has with caring a knife. Thanks,

Marc

Erm... sorry. I have no idea of the maker. He got it at a gun and knife show and it has no markings. It is a single 3.5" blade, has no pocket clip and is fairly thin, especially for the size. It has scales made from mahogany or some such attractive wood. Another of my shopping needs was that it not be too expensive because the more it costs the quicker it will get lost/misplaced/mangled/borrowed/dropped in a river. I also needed it to be easy to open. My fingernails aren't overly strong and I didn't want a knife that I needed another tool to open! He thought I was being too fussy, but when he found the right one, it was perfect.... for me at least.

I also have an RSK. I came home one day to find that my WIFE had borrowed my knife to cut up some cardboard boxes in the garage! She commented on how freaking sharp it was, then proceeded to show me how she had learned to FLICK it open one-handed!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />...........Needless to say, I got her her own folder! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

ETA: Oh, and now she carries a Leatherman Squirt in her purse......

A tragic tale:

Back in the day when I still liked to tip a brew or two or twenty, I was talking to an attractive woman at a party as we tipped back a couple, and she mentioned she firmly believed all men should carry a pocket knife, a comb and a handkerchief.

Had she not been already married, I'd have proposed. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

An aside: In grad school, I also EDC'd a bottle opener on my keychain, as returnable Hamm's were perpetually on sale. You'd be surprised how many women you can meet in college by opening their brewskis for 'em.

I double checked and it is marked with "Timber Wolf". I did a search and found a pic of it. It is called the Timberwolf Woodman Folder. I like it rather well. TimberWolf Woodman Folder. A decent knife for the price. I lose anything that costs more than $20 so this suits me just fine. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> Oh, it has a 2 3/4" blade, not the 3 1/2".

Hi! Newbie here. How is the Leatherman Squirt Xe6? <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> I'm thinking of getting one for me and one for my girl. Although I just got her a SAK. Can't remember which model. But the Xe6 seems to have more features. My Victorinox WorkChamp is a bit heavy for EDC.

The Xe6 is part of the Juice range rather than Squirt range. I have one but found it had too many features, making it a bit heavier and bulkier than I like. Also it has an odd number of layers, making the pliers a bit off-centre. It just didn't feel well-designed.

I'd recommend thinking carefully about what tools you actually need, then looking at one of the others in the Juice range before the Xe6. I now have a Cs4, which loses the file and serrated blade, and I much prefer it. However, the build quality still isn't great compared to, eg a Swiss Tool. The entire Juice range compromises for the sake of size.

I have an XE6 and really like it. It basically has all the features but is more compact than the other models. This makes it a good tradeoff for me.

However, keep in mind it is nearly as heavy as the other models. Take a look at the specs. If weight is a big issue, this may be an issue.

-john

My Squirt Xe6 has been great, I have been using it quite a bit since I deployed from PHX and it has yet to fail me. I normally prefer a larger blade (like in my WAVE) but both of the blades on the Xe6 are ok and hold an edge well. THe weak link is the can opener, it doesn't work as well as the WAVE but it still works.