listening to fox news tonight, I can't believe the numbers of people that left for the superdome and neglected to take I.D. with them. Greta Van S. was going on and on about these people that didn't have driver's licenses and social security cards on them -- how are they going to start over, etc, without even basic I.D.? That is the absolute first thing everyone ought to have on their person at all times. What were these people thinking?

Are these the same people who didn't have enough time to get their shoes on because the water was rising too fast? I knew about the hurricane before it got to Florida, what channel were these people watching?

Maybe something along the lines of, "WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!"

My guess is that most of the people may not have given any prior thought to the "what if's" of life and were in a state of extreme panic.

You still need your ID if you are going to die.

Cool! I had not realized that you needed ID in order to die. Many times in my life I've been disturbed by the notion of death; as Woody Allen put it, "I don't want to achieve immortality through my works, I want to achieve it by not dying". Now I realize that all I have to do is throw away my ID and I'm safe <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

More seriously, lots of those folks were really dirt poor. Most everyone with a car got out of NO. The ones left had no cars and thus lower numbers of drivers' licenses. It was a rushed, disorganized bugout and "let me see your papers" was the last thing most people probably had on their minds.

Good point -- having grown up in the 'burbs, I've had a driver's permit/license since high school, but I think a fair number of city-dwellers don't bother with getting or keeping one. Social Security cards are pretty useless -- no photo -- and passports are expensive, even though they now last for 10 years.

But I also agree that the underlying problem was panic and disorganization-- if you don't even think about what could happen in a crisis or problematic situation (let alone take any steps to prepare), it's very difficult to be practical or even rational when TSHTF.

If I'm not mistaken, even the poor have to have some kind of I.D. to get foodstamps or welfare -- I could be wrong, I've never had to apply for either, but not every single person that decided to stay in New Orleans Area was dirt poor or had no I.D. -- I just don't believe that.

No, I'm not saying they didn't have ID at all -- it's just that if you have a driver's license, it tends to be with you (in your wallet) all the time because most adult Americans drive daily. My passport stays in my home safe unless I'm traveling internationally, and my work ID is valid for only 2 things -- getting me into my office building, and getting my employee discount when shopping. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Also, doesn't welfare/foodstamp aid now come as direct-deposits to debit cards? (Could have sworn I read about that somewhere.) In which case, one would probably only need government-issued photo ID when applying for the account/card/aid.

Then again, we exorted day after day to NEVER carry our SS cards on our person, to store them in a safe place, perhaps a lock box or a safe depost box. Couple that with a rapidly escalating emergency situation, plus the fact under extreme stress our brains tend to stall out and we are unable to think (let alone clearly), and I'm not surprised no one has their Social Security cards.

Driver's Licenses, now that's another story altogether.

-- Craig

Are these people who got a shelter before the rain started to fall, or after?

I've had clothes taken off of me by rushing water. I've had my wallet fall out of my back pocket when sitting down or sliding down osomething on my but. If these were people who'd been in the water, with thier wallets in the back left pocket of thier pants, the river might have wanted it. Or thier ID was in a crude, clumsy BOB-type package, and they lost it in evac. Stuff happens.

I don't have much sympathy for people who didn't plan, but I'm not going to kick them when they are down becuase they screwed up. Or had bad luck. They've learned thier lesson, and hopefully next time they will be a little more ready.

For us to judge the average citizen on survival topics is like Lance Armstrong snickering at other people on a bike. We are to survival as the Olympics are to sports, guys, at the very least. Maybe even the minor league- professional, but we can't make a living on it. For us, we lean on the fence that seperates the proud and the arrogant- grass on one side, huge amounts of poo on the other, splinters in the middle. I'm guilty of straddling that line, we all are here.

Let's not get poo on ourselfs.

I guess sometimes we just want it to be their fault. Because if it is, it's less likely to happen to us. Wouldn't it be scary if someone who did everything right could still end up in this kind of trouble?

And I think you're right... they've learned their lesson. May not last longer than a generation, but these particular people are definitely NOT having fun. Big time negative reinforcement going on right now. There have to be a large percentage of them thinking "If only I'd...". This particular group will be better prepared for the next one.

I've said it before... the problem is not that hurricanes hit populated areas. The problem is that hurricanes don't hit populated areas more often.

Is it possbile to laminate the SS card, driver license cards and other Id to make it waterproof, or weather proof. These bare cards can easliy damaged or rub off.

Why ???
I carry in my wallet my ID card, driver's licence, SS card, credit card aso, on a daily basis. Those cards are useful if I have them with me, not in safe box at home ... ? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Identity theft.

If you have a couple pieces of information (Name, address, Social Security Number) you can become anyone. I just opened an account with a new bank. By mail. In addition to the application, I needed to provide a photocopy of my SS card.

Never, ever carry it with you. In the U.S. at least, you rarely (if ever) need the original on you. And anyone who's gone through college or the military probably have their SSN memorized by now anyway. :-)

I wouldn't get your hopes up too much on that one.

I quite agree. And further, I believe that it's not simply "those people" who will not profit from their experiences and be better prepared, I believe that very few will plan, prepare, and behave differently. Some of it is social, some of it is modern times, and all of it is human nature.

I believe that I am realist, not a pessimist.

Tom

I always have my driver's license on me - even when hiking in the backcountry - as well as a homemade identity card (contact info for family, allergies. medications, etc.) A Social Security Card? I think I remember a white-with-blue-ink paper card I was issued (at my bank) when I was in my early teens. Haven't seen that card since (and that's been, ahem, many many decades ago). I've never needed a SS card in my life. Only the ability to remember the number that was printed on it all those years ago. I've bought houses, cars, gotten myself employed, etc. When do people actually need a physical SS card?

I had to supply my SS card and birth certificate when I switched to an OH drivers license.
I started carrying two wallets a couple years ago, one a normal wallet in my back left pocket and another a key wallet in my front right pocket. I have a credit card and cash in each so if one were to get stolen/lost then I still have the other. The back pocket one has a spare truck, car and house key and the front one has the normal use set of keys as well as some keys for tool and gear boxes in my garage. I always try to carry two of either gear so the two wallets with two money stashes follows this rule.

Unless its when dealing directly with SS & maybe not even then. I think I may have used it for a 2nd ID when I got my driver's license. Everywhere else a photo ID & remebering the number.

Absolutely for anyone that didn't start recently AND have a pro-active administration. Colleges have only recently started using non-SS ID numbers. I can quote you the nine digits for it quicker than my phone number.

IIRC they are specifically printed on the back about not laminating.

Reason for not laminating SS cards is that counterfeit cards
are hard to detect if laminated. Counterfeiters can make cards that defy detection if laminated. Instead of laminating, keep it a plastic sleeve that is not sealed shut.

I agree so far as planning. But I'm willing to bet that people will get out of dodge next time it is suggested. Mayors will ask govenors before it is a crisis, governors will activate the guard and talk to the feds before it is a crisis, and the feds might actually start funding some engineering projects that are way over due. And I'm betting FEMA is going to be totally rebuilt.

>> people will get out of dodge next time <<

Maybe you're right. I still disagree, tho I wish it could be otherwise. Here are some of my thoughts on this:

Many people did leave NO. Perhaps a few more will try to evacuate in another time/place. But I suspect that most of the folks stranded in NO had no means by which to leave and/or had nowhere to go. If they had simply walked out of town (a daunting task on many levels!), they may have simply died in the open a little farther inland. Complete evacuation of large metro areas has been an impossible nightmare to plan for for nearly 50 years. It's simply not logistically practical; do some "evacuation calculus" and you'll see what I mean.

And in 24 hours or less, where do we put a half a million folks evacuating a city anyway? (The number should have been much greater - maybe more like a million).

I wrote an evacuation plan that two years later was actually used successfully. But it was a small militray installation and the reason for evacuation was wildfire; it was a fairly localized situation and it was not really a cross section of ordinary urban folk - military and their families. Everyone owned good working vehicles sufficient for their families plus there were military vehicles there plus more available from a larger installation a little over 100 miles away. And we had no hospital patients because there was no hospital there. No elderly. Etc. A small town of, say, 10,000 souls could substantially pull it off if everyone worked together, sure. A city of 100,000 or more? Forget it - it's not going to happen very well.

Now that I've flogged the dead horse... it IS time for civic leaders everywhere to carefully and realistically examine how to evacuate their community with no outside help, make plans, and share those plans with their citizens. I don't expect many citizens will read the plans and comment. Also, any plan that does not factor in the helpless and hopeless is not realistic

Regards,

Tom

San Antonio is one of the most flood prone cities in the nation. In 1987-88, then Mayor Henry Cisnereos used the flood drowning death of one of my clients to promote a bond issue which was then the largest in history. Now, nearly 20 years down the road, the work that money was meant for is only about 50% done and the money is 100% expended. A lot of the work in question was to be joint projects with the City, the State, and the Corp. The Corp never had enough money, the State ran out on money, and inflation ate up the City's money. That is the practical reality of getting anything done for public safety infrastructure.

Virtually the entire state of Texas is covered by one flood control district, river authority, or other water district, and often more than one. The result is that for any given geographical point, there may be as many as 7 governmental and quasi-governmental entities with some degree of jurisdiction, some financial interest, and 'turf' to protect.

You can't do a flood project without messing with the roads; you can't move the road without messing with utilities; you can't mess with utilities without dealing with public works; you can't get public works to move until they have sessed the public, who will complain no matter what they do.

Am I frustrated? You bet. I've been beating my head against these walls for nearly 20 years.

Two words: ID Theft.

Your money can be stolen from you by someone who assumes your identity and opens accounts in your name. All they need is your name and SS number.

That's why your SS card should be at home in a strongbox or in a safe deposit box. Just Google around a bit. You will find I know from whence I speak.

-- Craig

If you're working in the nuclear industry, you NEED it every time you process into a new plant... they want to copy THE ORIGINAL CARD, a D.L. or birth certificate isn't enough.

Troy