Before Chris pops a blood vessel, everyone, step back, sit down, and take a deep breath.

Brangdon, no offense, but you probably never will get it. I'm sorry.

Everyone else, get of his case. He's a subject, not a citizen. (No offense, B.) I'm seeing this issue in a lot of places I lurk. I lurk there becuase of stupidity and pointless, politically motivated bickering. I know I'm not the only one who doesn't post in other forums for the same reason.

*getting off my soap box* Every one, thank you for your patience. Chris, I know you'll want to chew on me for this, I'm ready.

Heh. I'm not on his case, or didn't mean to be.

I did try to make a case for having a weapon in as short a space as possible, since this issue can quickly get all snarled up with statistics and emotion.

Brangdon, no offense intended.

As many times as New Orleans has dodged the bullet they probably thought everything would be OK. They forgot that Chicken Little only has to be right ONCE!
gino

Absolutely no offense intended!!

I have never, and will never, tried to convince anyone to take up arms. It's not the only answer and is a very personal decision. I can debate issues all day long with someone who doesn't agree with me, as long as their point of view makes sense. Just be rational and we'll be ok : )

If one chooses to take up arms, it's a lifestyle. Keeping the weapon safely away, going to the range regulary, etc. I just can't imagine being left helpless in a time such as is happening in NO.

This is something I just don't understand! I don't understand how people can choose to not prepare even a little bit. Putting up a few cans of soup or tuna fish once a month isn't that difficult or expensive. I guess it's the mindset that 'the store is only down the street', never thinking one day it might not be (or be shopped out or just be impossible to get to).
In my basement is a 'heavy-duty' shelf I bought at Home Depot which has many canned items like soup, Chef Boyardee, vegetables, fruits, beans, cans of chicken & tuna, Spam and jars of spaghetti sauce, mayo, apple sauce, etc. In metal potato chip/popcorn cans I've got things like pasta (spaghetti, Ramen noodles, etc.) and boxed goods (macaroni & cheese, etc.) and anything else that's 'soft-packaged' and needs to be kept rodent-free. (I've got the word out to all my family and friends that I'll take any and all of those metal chip cans they'd care to give). Paper goods (toilet paper, paper towels, tissues, etc.), soap, shampoo, deodorant, shaving cream, detergent, bleach, etc. There are a few bottles of wine and cases of beer (for emergencies only! - Actually I keep a few bottles of wine on hard for the forgotten birthday gift). I've even got a few children's games in there too (they're both for emergencies and for a quick "Oops, I forgot" birthday gift). When I need something, I get it from downstairs. When 'downstairs' needs something, I get it from the store.
I have to say I've got this thing so loaded, the shelves are badly bending (they're made of 2' x 4' pieces of some kind of particle board, so I'm going to replace them with good heavy-duty 3/4-inch plywood)
I also have two 23,000 BTU kerosene 'convection' heaters (I bought them on sale at Home Depot for $77 bucks each! I doubt if they'll keep the whole house warm but I figure they'll keep it warm enough to keep the pipes from freezing if the main heater fails) and, so far, eight 5 gal. containers of kerosene, and two full 20 lb. bottles of propane for the propane grill and/or my camp stove (Propane bottles should NOT be kept in your basement!! - this is where I'd love to have a small outbuilding, for the propane, bottles of lamp fuel and 55 drums of kerosene and gasoline!).
On the other side of the basement are two 55 gallon drums of water. I got both drums for free from the local sodapop bottler. I just rinsed them out with hot water and then a little bleach, then filled them and added a preservative. I recently checked the water and it was still perfectly clear (They're the milky-white barrels, I'm thinking of changing them to the dark blue ones, to help keep light out).
That's for the 'input.' For the 'output', my next purchase is going to be a Thetford Portapotti. I'm going to get a big one that can take a lot of 'use' before it needs to be emptied. Worst case scenario - using a post hole digger out in the yard to make 'quickie' latrines. This is one area where an outhouse would really come in handy, but here in the city they're a no-go (at least not legally).
Also, to be fair, in my neighborhood, flooding really isn't a problem, but winter storms, among other things, are - not to mention the convenience of just walking downstairs to get something to eat. I use this stuff every day, keep it rotated, and replenish it as needed. It is no more expensive than buying something at the store. I bought all this stuff at the store - I just store it in my basement for a while before I eat it. This helps keep me out of trouble and keeps me from becoming a burden on someone else. - Dave.

Has anyone paid attention to what happened? When the winds died down (Kat left town) there wasn't hardly any flooding. It was over...done...finished.
What got everyone was THE LEVEE BROKE. That's where the majority of the water came from. Not the storm itself. I think that's been missed here. Yes...the levees were only supposed to stand up to a Cat 3....but truely, it wasn't until afterwards that they actually broke. Those levees could have gone a week after the storm. After everyone had actually returned home. Has anyone considered the rammifications of that? Thousands of people did what they were supposed to and left NO. Imagine the loss of life if they had returned and the levee had gone down. Gheez...it gives me the chills.

Wyn

wyntr, I get that. So plan should be: Get everyone out BEFORE the storm hits. After the storm the Army Corps of Engineers returns to complete a full assessment of the levee. It's not rocket science here.

What people forget is similar to the woman they talked with in Mississippi last night. She said, "My house stood up fine to Camille, so I figure I would ride out Katrina." Well, her house did stand up find to Camille, but what about the enormous stress that structure took during Camille. Did she ever think to have the house assessed after Camille.

People get in fender benders every day and don't realize that the integrity of their bumper has been compromised. Then when they get really whacked in an accident, it can be fatal.

FYI the term subject is now only applied to a sub-set of the former colonies.

> Brangdon, no offense intended.

None taken. Which isn't to say I agree with you or Joseywales. The question of whether the free availability of guns was a net benefit to the Katrina disaster is an important one and ought to be debated somewhere. But I understand if you don't want it here, so I won't respond to the specific points you both made.

brangdon, by freely available, you mean they broke into stores and stole them. But I get your meaning. And with regard to scenarios such as these, I don't necessarily disagree with you. Guns did make the situation worse.

However, in order to eliminate the possibility of thugs arming themselves, we would have to do away with all firearms, including hunt rifles, etc. And I don't believe that's realistic at this point. (I won't get into the Right to Bear arms, etc.)

But let's look at it from an economic standpoint. In the US, firearms, ammunition, hunting/shooting clothing and equipment is a multibillion dollar business. Heck, Cabela's retail store is like a small city in itself. How would we replace the jobs and income that exist as a result of this industry?

A society free of firearms might have been a great idea, if someone thought of it long ago. But this is where we're at now and we all need to figure out a way to deal with it. I don't know the answer, but until someone figures it out, I want to keep enjoying my sporting arms and the ability to protect my family if necessary.