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#47504 - 08/29/05 01:17 AM Maybe I'm obsessing, but...
MartinFocazio Offline

Pooh-Bah

Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 2203
Loc: Bucks County PA
I've been intimately involved in a few natural disasters here in the Delaware Valley, as a firefighter and as a resident. Nothing close to what's happening down in New Orleans, but still, some stuff that made national news.

I've been practically obsessed with the New Orleans situation for no other reason than I can't fathom how a city with the risks associated with hurricanes could be so poorly prepared. Images like this: http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050828/ids_p...HNlYwNnYWxsZXJ5
boggle my mind - they are putting 10,000 or more people into a structure (the Superdome) that has NO MODEL of storm resistance at this level.

At first I was willing to say that it's a smaller city, with more limited resources than New York, but the reality is that scale is not the issue here, it's a matter of effective government. Not to take this in a too political direction, but I'm a pretty strong libertarian, believing that the government is there to protect us against force and fraud and to provide services to the populace that the free market can't reasonably expected to perform. Providing for a quick and efficient evacuation, which includes transportation, providing for a shelter system that actually provides shelter from the storm and developing physical defenses as needed and possible to prevent or reduce the damages that come with a natural disaster.

As I look at the research, the reports, the background - so many people have been calling for improvements to the emergency plans for the "Big Easy" as well as the emergency infrastructure - for so many years and they have, for the most part, been dismissed as alarmist.
While it may not be possible to save every life, it would seem to me that a better effort could have been made 25 years ago to mitigate, to some extent, the nightmare that's now upon them.

I'm not a prayful person, but I am a spiritual person, and I feel a connection to all those scared people left behind - in the shelters, in the police stations, at the gas stations, in their homes.

Anyway, as I said, I'm obsessing a bit, but only because I want to.

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#47505 - 08/29/05 01:43 AM Re: Maybe I'm obsessing, but...
readyone Offline
Journeyman

Registered: 02/14/04
Posts: 55
Loc: Florida
Well unfortunately Martin, as you and other forum members well know, this is their Wake Up Call. Have we not seen it so many times in our past. For those of us in the Fire/Safety fields it has been what we have been saying for years, with no one listening. No time, no money, etc., I have heard it all. Unfortunately the resources come only after the big event. I have never understood why governments/companies hire experts (at least that is what I was labeled in a Federal court of law) and then ignore their advice on Fire/Loss Prevention matters. I suppose all we can do is keep things like this on the front burners and never give up.

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#47506 - 08/29/05 01:50 AM Re: Maybe I'm obsessing, but...
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Your not alone. I've only visited this city once, but I've always felt a connection since. We are blessed with a unique multiculturalism in the US. You just don't transplant Bourbon Street jazz, creole and cajun cooking and spanish moss to Mesa Arizona. I don't need to violate every rule I am supposed to enforce as moderator, but this is so insipidly incompetant it's beyond comprehension <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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#47507 - 08/29/05 02:46 AM Re: Maybe I'm obsessing, but...
JimJr Offline
Member

Registered: 05/03/05
Posts: 133
Loc: Central Mississippi
The line in the picture is for people who wouldn't of couldn't leave waiting to get in to the Superdome. Some facts:

1. The N.O. city gov't estimates that there are approximately 100,000 people who cannot self-evacuate due to health or lack of personal transportation.

2. N.O. is essentially in a bowl, below sea level between the Miss. River and Lake Ponchatrain (which is a estuary).

3. The Superdome is N.O.'s "shelter of last resort", meaning that it is the last facility opened. It is built up 18' above sea level with decks reaching up about 4 stories It is (supposedly) designed to survive sustained 200 MPH winds. However, this will be the strongest hurricane to hit N.O. since the Superdome was built.

4. Many people refused to go to other shelters, waiting for the city to open the Superdome. Others were vacationing and didn't act quickly enough (or at all) to get out before the airports closed.

5. Local NG MP's are providing security and are searching all persons entering for drugs, alcohol and weapons. (Personal note: Given the state of the N.O.P.D., the people are in better hands with the MP's). It took about 5 hours to clear the lines.

6. Both the Gov of LA and the Mayor of N.O called on their citizens to evacuate early Friday - way too many waited until this (Saturday) afternoon. Even with contra-flow plans (all lanes heading in one direction) on major highways, traffic was moving slowly.

When I see what's happening, I think of the scene in "Men in Black" where Tommy Lee Jones tells Will Smith " A preson is smart, people are stupid" (i.e. "PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER."). One could become very cynical and take a "Darwinistic" approach that this is just nature's way of cleansing the gene pool of people with low survival drives.

Since Hurricane Camile devastated the Miss coast in '68 the local Miss EMA's ask all not leaving to provide the name and phone numbers for next-of-kin.

I'm in the Jackson Miss area and I'm not looking forward to the next 48-72 hours. (I remember weathering Camile in the house my parents still own across town.)

Goodnight and good luck

JimJr


Edited by JimJr (08/29/05 02:50 AM)

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#47508 - 08/29/05 04:02 PM Re: Maybe I'm obsessing, but...
wolf Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 329
Loc: Michigan
I chalk it up to very few people/ corporations / governments wanting to pay the $$ for "what if". There are more tangible / pressing things to spend budget money on. I'm not advocating that response, but I think that's how it often works. Entities think they'll deal with that later - there's time after all - until, unfortunately, time runs out suddenly and the situation hasn't been dealt with.
_________________________
"2+2=4 is not life, but the beginning of death." Dostoyevsky

Bona Na Croin

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#47509 - 08/29/05 05:06 PM Re: Maybe I'm obsessing, but...
fordwillman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Arizona
Chris,
Why not transplant some of that to Mesa, AZ??? We could use it!
Ford
Mesa, AZ
P.S. All kidding aside let us hope the damage and loss is less than expected!

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#47510 - 08/29/05 08:00 PM Re: Maybe I'm obsessing, but...
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Spanish Moss on a Palo Verde? Boudan sausage instead of fry bread at a Pow Wow? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#47511 - 08/30/05 01:56 AM Re: Maybe I'm obsessing, but...
Anonymous
Unregistered


Martin, I don't think we learned a damn thing today other than it is better to be lucky than to be good.

How could the evacuation have been done better?
How could the survival in place at the Dome have been better?
How could authorities make folks better aware of the magnitude of the risk?

What about the subsidiary issue of evacuation to a place hit worse?

I fear the answer to all of the above is very little.

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#47512 - 08/30/05 03:37 AM Re: Maybe I'm obsessing, but...
fordwillman Offline
Member

Registered: 08/27/04
Posts: 103
Loc: Arizona
Actually, I was thinking more of jazz for Cinco de Maya and jambalaya for the Pow Wow. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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