I mostly read but occasionally post and would be very interested in LTS. Both from a "can't get out, have to stay at your current residence" view point and a pre planned "meet me @ X retreat".

I think that given many are looking at 3 months without electricy, 'long term survival' may take on a whole new meaning.

It's interesting. About five days ago, when I first read this thread, I wasn't so sure the benefits of LTS discussion on this site would outweigh the potential for over-bearing TEOTWAWKI scenarios and the potential for an influx of participants who may not be open to alternative points-of-view. I think the most significant challenges we face in having meaningful discussion on LTS, is that it becomes necessary to make a whole series of assumptions and since introducing the temporal dimension introduces the need to consider many variables in the equation.

One of the reasons I started posting to ETS is because I was impressed with how polite, thoughtful and informed the members and post were. I first thought LTS discussions could compromise that, but given my thoughts listed below, I now feel there is much to discuss re LTS.

Seeing how the events have been playing out near the Gulf, my observations and thoughts have been on:
-- how totally unprepared many of these unfortunate individuals are
-- how under-educated many people seem to be
-- how people refused to leave
-- how people seem unwilling to take responsibility for preparing for their own well-being
-- how the local, state and federal governments apparently didn't provide a means of evacuation for those who didn't have the resources or were too ill to leave BEFORE the storm
-- how the local, state and federal governments apparently didn't put enough forethought into responding to a disaster of this size and scope (and let’s face it, from a US geographical perspective, this is a relatively localized event – imagine the repercussions of a significant terrorist attack or natural disaster on two or three US cities at once)
-- how the local, state and federal governments were apparently not prepared to secure the safety of people and property immediately after the severe storm threat had passed (even though with an event like a hurricane they had days to prepare).
-- how difficult it seems to be to keep people calm after the events
-- how uninformed many of these victims seem to be (expressing dissatisfaction that the power is out, as opposed to understanding the dangers of electrocution if it were just turned back on)
-- how I’ll bet that many will be surprised that there are more repercussions yet to come – health issues as disease starts to spread, injuries that may arise from local critters (snakes, gators and crocs, etc)
-- how many of these unfortunate individuals seem to have some expectation that their lives should be able to return to “normal” overnight.
-- how incredulous the victims seem to be that it's difficult to provide food, water and shelter for tens of thousands of victims
-- how mean, violent and uncooperative people appear to be when being sheltered (even as I write this news channels are reporting about the shootings, fire-settings, muggings and rapes inside the Superdome, the lootings (not referring to food and water) and the shootings at rescuers in helicopters and boats outside the Superdome and in the remains of the city).
-- how even as uncomfortable as I’m sure life inside the Superdome is -- probably beyond my ability to comprehend -- many people are complaining about the taste of MREs, and leaks in the roof – as opposed to expressing any thankfulness that they are 1) alive, 2) being given food and water that others are paying for and 3) being given potential relocation to even better accommodations
-- how I can’t help but feeling that (in my uninformed opinion,) it is likely that some small but significant percentage of individuals who stayed behind, may have done so just to have the opportunity to loot, pillage and plunder.
-- how the rest of us will likely be paying indirectly through increases in taxes (or reduction in services), insurance premiums, gasoline prices, building materials, etc. for quite some time.

I could go on and on ……and I’m sure many others could too.

For what it’s worth, you have a BIG YES VOTE from me on creating an additional LTS forum area. It’s clear to me that thousands will be in something of a survival mode for months. We could have meaningful discussions on the Katrina fallout alone for some time. I was happy to help contribute to Chris’ new machine, please know I’ll send another check as soon as I can get clearance from my wife, to support the replacement of the new server.

I’ll even offer up what my first three LTS posts would be:

1) What effect has viewing the events unfolding in New Orleans had on members in terms of re-evaluating how long they intend to prepare to be able to sustain themselves and their families?
2) Has anyone changed their opinion to sheltering-in-place as opposed to using public facilities in a crisis?
3) What additions to or revisions of plans are members making for needing to relocate in event of regional disasters?

Thanks and apologies for the dissertation, but I really felt the need to express my thoughts and feelings,

Michael

There's a few things I would like to point out since this discussion has taken off...

First of all, I'm not entirely sure that ETS should maintain an LTS forum. It would contrary to the original purpose of the site, and would be difficult in the extremem to maintain a semblance of order. What I was originally wondering was if there are any existing communities that I could check out that weren't entirely over the top, or off the deep end.

That said, I would certainly be willing to put my money where my mouth is and pony up to support ETS financially if Doug and the other Powers That Be decide to create such a forum.

I also want to say that I've just finished reading James Howard Kunstler's "The Long Emergency", and I was struck by Kunstler's evaluation of good places to live in a post-"cheap oil" society, as opposed to the "traditional" wisdom of homesteading in rural areas. I live six miles from Center City Philadelphia in that great peninsula, New Jersey, and I have long been troubled by my location (for a number of reasons). Following Kunstler, I may acutally be in a fantastic place, with close access to strategic water transportation, relatively nearby fertile farm land (they don't call it The Garden State for nothing, you know), and in a community that still has a functional downtown a couple of blocks from my house. Many of NJ's towns are Revolutionary War era municipalities, despite the prevalence of suburban development. There are no Mc Mansions here (well, at least in my town), only 100+ year old houses built for an era sans air-conditioning and other so-called "modern" amenities.

Anyway, you can count on me for support if ETS goes that way, and I'll certainly try very hard to be without political recriminations--though it's a bit hard not to criticize the handling of the Katrina fiasco.

I've got a library that could practically revive civilization, and the tools to do it. Everything from the Greeks to Adam Smith to current technologies, including authors like Horace Kephart and Nessmuk, Thomas Paine and Richard Feynman, Robert Heinlein and Miyamoto Musashi. Yes, I can be called a "survivalist", and I'm proud of it. But, I also think that ETS' focus on short-term survival is equally important.

Threads was so realistic it was banned in the UK for about 20 odd years. It was released for public viewing at the same time as "the day after" I watched them both as a kid and was scared to my boots.

Johno

Few things I watch really "get" me. This got me at my core. If everything and everyone I know and love is gone, then why should I bother trying to survive? I still don't have a good answer to that question.

I was bummed because until that point, I thought a limited exchange would be survivable, which it would be, but I never considered the aftermath. I want no part of living the consequences, but what is the reasonable alternative for reasonable people?

-- Craig

Given the wake-up call issued by Katrinia, I don't know how we (ETS) can discuss preparedness on any level without including longer-term preparations in the discussion. Don't think any of us would want to face the next few months in New Orleans with just an Altoids tin crammed with goodies, or even a moderately well-stocked BOB. Events of this magnitude require a different preparedness mindset.

Put in context, Katrina's devastation may well be a one-in-a-thousand event, but on the other hand, thinking like "it can never happen to us" is partly responsible for the current plight in New Orlean's and other impacted areas.

I have every confidence that participants on this forum can and would conduct themselves appropriately.

I dunno, maybe we can glean some good kernels from the chaff that will surely come. I reckon you may as well make the new forum. If it doesn't work like we hope, we can just pull the plug, like Doug says.

Time to get the old "Foxfire" series out and start reading again.

Ain't it notable how, as applied technology advances our civilization, it becomes increasingly precarious? The philosophy seems to go contradictory to the reality, kinda like computers were supposed to make our lives and our jobs easier, right? It sure seemed a lot easier to me to work on that old 65 ford fairlane and give it a good tune up and just drive it down the road with the AM radio set to one of my five favorite channels. Now it costs me $500 to take my POS Kia in and get it "serviced" with all those diagnostics, and then try to drive down the road punching buttons trying to find something other than Rap or Hip Hop on the daughter's CD collection playing in the trunk or on the radio, or the satellite radio, or the climate control and then accidentally push that ^(^%$##@ On-Star button again and have to pay another $15 for the false alarm!!!

Yep, we could use two steps back here pretty soon I reckon.

I don't know about two steps back. The "problem", I think, with a modern, technologically advanced society is the number of layers added between you and basic survival. We don't need to take two steps back... we just need to continuously practice skills that aren't usually necessary. This won't happen, of course.

I support the creation of an LTS forum. While many of the equipment and techniques for short-term survival are transferable to LTS, LTS requires some unique considerations. I've had many thoughts and questions re: LTS but found that I had to sift through a lot of conspiracy theories and nonsense from both ends of the political spectrum to find good info on other sites. It would be great to have a site where, regardless of whether you're sheltering-in-place for a month because of a flood, an alien invasion or government oppression, you could learn how to do it well.