Some posts here about Lithium-Ion rechargeables (not the plain Lithium batteries) have led me to the conclusion that people like us - the gadget heads - have to make the the manufacturers take notice. We need equipment that uses standard batteries and standard power sources.

To this end, I'm proposing that we form the informal "AA or No Way" club - a groud dedicated to RESISTING the urge to buy small electronics that use oddball, proprietary battery sizes.

When you see that cool light and it uses "J" cells - RESIST!
When that GPS you want to buy uses 7 "N" cells - RESIST!
If someone shows you a wonderful little AM/FM/SW/Weather Radio and it uses 3 "AAAA" cells - RESIST!

Maybe it's not just "AA" or no way -maybe we can include other sizes like "AAA" or "D" - but seriously -the "militarized" version of most electronics you can buy is almost always modified to use - you guessed it - "AA" batteries.

If you've ever travelled to a 3rd world nation and you want something that's basically a local currency, you can use booze, cigarettes or - AA batteries.

A depleted "AA" Cell makes a nice projectile for an improvised spud-gun like contraption you can make with a bic lighter and some easily found pipe. (I know this for a fact).

We can start another discussion on the 1,200 tips and 800 voltages used for transformers and chargers...but for now "AA or No Way" is the route for me.

The thing I have noticed it the trend toward more AAA stuff. 5 years ago, never had them around. Now, they seem almost as common as AA (as far as demand goes, you can still buy AA in more places that AAA.

Count me in, Pal. I'd also like to see the same principle applied to flashlight bulbs, unless it can be demonstrated that they are clearly superior (such as the move to longer-lasting L.E.D.s).

I have a Surefire with a bulb life measured in hours - and not many of them at that. The lithium battery has a great shelf life, but doesn't last long in action.

I suspect the constant introduction of new batteries has more to do with m-o-n-e-y than with improved performance.

I'm with you 100% as long as you exempt my precious lithium 123As from your boycott. Otherwise, we're going to have to take this discussion outside... <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I only use AAs and 123's for my non-in house stuff (stuff I plan on carrying). My car and house I use stuff that uses Ds, Cs, AAAs, ect because I have plenty of batteries stocked up there.

Guess I've kinda waged my own personal campaign by "voting with my pocketbook" for awhile, restricting, whenever possible, my portable electronics-buying to AA-powered devices: GPS, radios, (LED) flashlights etc.

AA's are reasonably-priced, small in size/weight, universally available, rechargeable, come in several flavors (lithium, alkaline, NiMH), and allow redundancy among devices.

The rare exceptions for me are things unique in form and function, such that their design precludes AA usage. Perfect example – the Photon lights.

Dan

All my critical pieces are either AA or at least one of the redundancies is. What I did do was go through and cut out almost everything that wasn't AA, AAA or 123 from my inventory, and those three are all that carry EDC or in BOB.

Exceptions to the rule: C-cells in my big Mags, and a couple of 9V items in my tool kit. None of which are terribly mobile items for me.

As for money being the driving force, very wrong in spirit but close in essance. Newer technology is always more expensive, always will be. If you want something more advanced than a basic alkaline, you have to pay for it. If you want it small, you have to pay for it. If you want it potent and/or with enhanced shelf life, you pay for it. You can have it good, fast or cheap- pick the one you need and the one you want, but don't count on the third unless it's stolen or broken.

I agree with two exceptions, I have a D cell in my strobe beacon in my bob and I have a surefire E2E that uses the 123's otherwise everything is AA in my kits including the headlamp. I try to keep things as simple as possible, battery wise

Amen, brother! I have been trying HARD to standardize on AAs, but broke down and bought a Inova T2 (got it today-bright, but HUGE and of course 123s for batts), but I really try hard--GPS, Streamlight LuxJR, tiny shortwave radio (from CountyComm), etc.
I will be AA-2 in the group, you of course can be AA-1.
Ford

I've noticed the trend toward AAA's too. Most remote controls are now AAA, and of course the famous ARC flashlight is AAA, as well as my mini-radio, Aurora headlight and Maglite. I stock more AAA's these days than AA's and I keep around a few AAA to AA converters for that reason - In many cases AAA's can substitute for AA's, but the reverse is not true.

I refuse to buy anything with N or AAAA cells since finding those battery in an emergency could be difficult

AAA to AA converter???? Link please!

I disagree!

In a survivalist situation you might want to have only one size battery; but for a 72 hour PSK what does it matter what size the batteries are? I have spare lithium batteries in my CamelBack PSK. Battery consumers are specialized. The Photon, Petzl Zippka, SureFire, mini AM/FM radio, strobe light, etc. I’m not trading my cool gear for bigger stuff just so they all use the same battery. If I were stuck in a foreign country that would be a different issue. On the other hand I do avoid things that take weird batteries.

Several companies make them, converting AAA's to AA's to C's to D cells. Of course you lose capacitiy compared to the larger cells, but they will work in most cases with shorter run times.

http://store.greenbatteries.com/battery-adapter.html

And give up the performance in brightness of 123's in a Surefire? No. A Surefire e1e with the KL1 led will give you one hour at full output (similar to a 2d Maglite) and three or four more hours at a diminishing output. This is using a single 123 Lithium.

Standardize most everything else to AA or AAA, sure. Everything else EDC or BOB is standardized around them or is only a nice extra. Even the flashlights use 3 AAA's to run leds. Several places make AA battery units to run a USB charger for cell phones & PDA's

Martin,

That turns out to be a pretty good idea (I reserve 3.0v CR123 batteries as an exception - the applications are too good).

I went on the Energizer website tonight to get some data - I looked at common Energizer alkaline cells from AAAA to D and Lithium AA and AAA. Using their data for ampacity, dimensions, and mass, I did a little quick spreadsheet analysis (PM for spreadsheet if you want it - but I don't log on every day).

I realize that mAh is not power, but since all of these are 1.5 volt nominal (as opposed to a 3.0v CR123), mAh is the variable to measure when looking at total power available from a cell, so I use the term "power" in that context:

Looking at power/volume they rank this way:

1 e95 D 363 mAh/cc
2 L91 AA 360 mAh/cc
3 e91 AA 342 mAh/cc
4 L92 AAA 325 mAh/cc
4 e92 AAA 325 mAh/cc
5 e93 C 310 mAh/cc
6 e90 N 293 mAh/cc
7 e96 AAAA 272 mAh/cc

Looking at power/gram they rank this way:

1 L91 AA 207 mAh/g
2 L92 AAA 164 mAh/g
3 e95 D 144 mAh/g
4 e93 C 126 mAh/g
5 e91 AA 124 mAh/g
6 e90 N 111 mAh/g
7 e92 AAA 109 mAh/g
8 e96 AAAA 96 mAh/g

Quick conclusion: Stick to D cells and AA cells because they are very equivalent in power to weight or power to volume, with the Lithium cells having an obvious power to weight advantage. The lithium AAA is right in there as well, but it's starting to drop behind compared to the others (again, weight advantage exists).


I know that C cell bodies with D cell heads have been a darling of some, but the available energy from C cells doesn't really justify it; 3 AA cells basically "equal" a C cell for volume and capacity and 3 lithium AA cells weigh only 2/3 of an alkaline C cell.

AAA makes most sense in Lithium and is so-so in alkaline.

I was disappointed in the C cell numbers - I figured they would do better than that. but they have less than 1/2 the ampacity of a D cell. As for me - a few AAA for things like my ARC-P s and the rest is either AA or D (OK - I REALLY like the CR123 stuff we have - they are overall about the same as Lithium AA when you factor in the 3.0v)

So sticking to just AA, especially lithiums, is not a bad idea. I have not done the cost comparison, but I suspect that will strongly favor alkaline D cells, which makes them not a bad idea for applications where total weight/bulk is not as critical.

Digest this for yourself; HTH.

Tom

You should also look at the actual mAh available from each cell.

Anyway, I really wanted to standardize on AA's awhile back, due to the existence of the Lithium AA's. Unfortunately, my favorite piece of powered gear, my Petzl Zipka Plus, only takes AAA's. Now that the lithium AAA's are out, I don't worry about it anymore. I just stock both types. I just don't see the need for anything more heavy-duty, whether it's a 123 type or a D cell. I will make an exception for common coin cells, like 2032's or the like for the Photon LED lights.

So for now I have:

Petzl Zipka Plus, 3xAAA
Sony SRF-M37V radio, 1xAAA
Garmin Foretrex 101 GPS, 2xAAA
Mini Mag-Lite, 2xAA
Sony ICF-SW7600 shortwave, 4xAA
Motorola TalkAbout 6250 GMRS radios (x2) 3xAA each

and a few Photons...but that's it for electric/electronic gear for me.

Craig –

You've touched on another reason – for me and my circumstances – why I stick with AA's when feasible. I spend up to five weeks a year ~1000 miles south of the border in smallish urban areas. Much as I like Surefires, can't count on easily finding CR123's. Of course, I could tote a supply of spares, but I like to keep the load light as possible.

Dan

I agree that it is disappointing to see the trend towards built in rechargable batteries.

I try pretty hard to limit the different types of batteries in my kit. However, I haven't been able to get it down to one or even two types, but two types dominate:

123A cells to meet most of my lighting needs. I EDC a SF E2e (2x123A for 60 lumens @ 1hr) and a SF L1 (1x123A for 15 lumens @ 1hr or ~2 lumens @ ~50 hrs). These two lights provide me with three useful light levels from very low light, to medium task lighting, to fairly powerful lighting. They provide the capability of very long runtime or bright light as needed. In addition, in my kit, I carry a 3 level, 1W LED headlamp.

Then of course are the AA devices. GPS (2xAA), backup batteries for my Yaesu VX-5R which uses a propriatary lithium ion battery pack (it does not provide full capacity with the AA battery pack), BC246T scanner which thankfully uses AA batteries and a Infinity Ultra with red LED. Obviously the GPS and the radios can eat batteries. With the exception of the NiMH I keep installed in the scanner, I carry only lithium AA batteries for long storage life, bettery performance and lower weight.

I have a single AAA device in my kit. I carry an iAudio 5 combo MP3 player / FM radio. I specifically purchased this unit instead of the iAudio U2 which is almost the same except has a built in battery. I suppose I could have found a AA radio or even an AA MP3/FM combo, but I wanted a very small device that did not have a built in rechargable battery. I normally operate this guy on NiMH rechargables day to day, but carry a few lithium AAA batteries as spares.

The oddball is a pair of Glo-Toob FX marker lights in my kit for my dog and I. These use a single 12v 23A battery. I'm not thrilled about that, but these lights are small, waterproof and pretty much bombproof and the batteries are small so you don't notice a couple of spares.

So, in general, I have two primary type of cells - 123A and AA. I'll accept some AAA devices if size dictates, but prefer AA or 123A.

I consider built in rechargables a strict no-no since you can't reload in the field. N cells - no. J cells - no. AAAA cells - no.

Other than that, it pretty much has to be something I simply can't get the needed function.

I don't really like C and D cells, but mostly because they don't work well in high drain situations. Seems like it kind of defeats the point of having all that size and weight.. If I really need a D size, I'll use an AA to D adapter.

I'm really fond of lithium batteries for longer storage capability, better performance, better cold weather performance and weight savings. You can get them in all the sizes I prefer: 123A, AA and AAA.

I also am fond of NiMH batteries for high use devices and of course they come in AA and AAA sizes.

So, I guess you can put me in the AA or 123A or AAA or NO WAY catagory! :-)

-john

Keep in mind the D cell numbers are very misleading IMO. While D cells have a large amount of capacity, they provide much of their power at very low voltage.

Typically this means you will not get anywhere near the rated capacity from the batteries because 1) you'll replace the batteries well before they are dead or 2) the device will stop working because it requires more voltage than the cells will provide.

The main exceptions to this are applications which do not have large power requirements. Consider for example, running a handful of 5mm LEDs from 3xD cells. Darn thing would probably run pretty much forever.

Also, the D cell strobe lights probably make good use of the D cell because they charge a capacitor which stores up prior to discharge. As the voltage drops, it might take longer to charge up the capacitor, but the light will still be bright and it will probably run for a very long time.

Some very good information in this Alakaline Battery Shootout by SilverFox on CPF.

All in all, I'm not very fond of D cells. I think in most of the cases you'd be better off with 3 to 4 AA cells instead.

-john

i like lithium ion batteries, the removable one in cr123 size that is. Unfortunatly mine's are norminal 3.7 volt, so i can't use them in many applications, because the safety feature on my battery kicks in wenn used in a xenon lamp. Or the applicationss don't take the added voltage. But it works like a charm in my 3 watt luxeon Nuwai Q3. But you could invest in a regulated 3 volt rcr123 lithium ion if you needed too...

I actually like to promote lithium ion battery's, they are powerfull and aren't affected by cold, just like plain lithiums batteries. They are cheaper (in the long term) and beter for the enviorment than disposables. They should make AA and AAA in them, with safety's in them ofcorse.

Personally i use AAA more than AA. Most modern stuff i got are AAA. Camera, mp 3 player, headlight, etc.

I second that ....

It makes restocking easier. Instead of going to the store and buying 2 AAA, 4AA, 6 coin cell of varying types, 2D and 1 9v you just buy one bulk pack of AA.

AAAA's are actually easy to find. Rip apart most 9v batteries and you get 6.

thats not with all 9 volts. Also they are usually slightly shorter so you need a spacer.

I've standardized on AAA for EDC and PSK where weight is important and AA for most other gear.
Have a small AAA radio, Arc AAA, AAA minimags, AA minimags, AA digicam, etc. I have a few Lithium AA batteries stocked and 10 NiMH AA rechargeable and a charger that will charge AA and AAA NiMh and NiCad and will charge from 120 or 12v. Buy the regular AA's and AAA's in the 16 count bulk packs for about $10. I gave away mu D call mag light and anything that takes those stupid coin cells that don't last more than a few days when they are actually used. The only thing now in the house that takes anything else is the two smoke detectors which take 9v batteries, the keyless entry fob for my truck and my 9.6v Cordless drills/saws/flashlight but those have their own special rechargeable.

Yes not all, but it seems that most of the brand names do.
As long as its one or two cells then the device they are going into usually the spring gives enough flex for the slight shortness.

Almost all my gear is AA power, or I have a backup that is AA powered in my EDC kit. The exceptions?

Arc AAA flashlights (AAA cells) - but the AA has replaced the AAA on my keyring - may shift back due to size

My EDC60 light - that takes a CR123, and I'm NOT happy about that. The are supposed to come out with a AA tailpack, and that pack WILL go in my EDC bag, but the flashlight will stay in the pocket with the CR123 - this is backed up with an Arc LS "first run" with 2xAA twisty. ONLY 30 lumens, but....

Other than that, it's all AA - including the HT, which has a rechargeable and AA packs with it

oops, I forgot about my glo-toob lights too, so I have to join John's club of AA or 123A or AAA or 23A or NO WAY catagory! I know the photon lights are a staple of almost everybody's edc, but I stay away from the button batteries, I just hate those button batteries.

>> You should also look at the actual mAh available from each cell.<<

I did. That's how I calculated the "power density" for the various cells.

Off the top of my head, the D cells are rated at over 20,000 mAh, C cells at a little over 8,000 mAh, AA at a little under 3,000 mAh for alkaline and 3,000 mAh for Li, etc. See the Energizer site for details.

Tom

There's not a lot we can do except not buying the products that are not what we want them to be. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Most of the gear I am using takes either AAs or AAAs (Petzl lamp, flashlights, digital camera, etc.). That did not prevent me from buying a Motorola V400 phone ;-)

As long as the cell format isn't something very weird or unusual, I don't really mind. Sometimes you don't have the choice (My Nissan car remote takes a coin-sized battery, my Astrostart remote takes another kind that's half the length of an AAA, etc.) but when I have the choice, I purchase AA or AAA stuff.

My 2 cents!

They are starting to use AAA cells to downsize everything... I was considering buying a Garmin Geko 201 GPS but did not do it because it was using 2xAAA batteries. When i'm going to get a GPS, it's batteries are going to last more than 16-18 hours.

John,

Good point - but D cells still have a lot more capacity (watt-hours) than the alternatives. In low-current applications I think they are the most economical in relatively small quantities. We buy AA by the case at home, but no other sizes in that quantity, so I'm not sure about the overall economics in case and larger quantities.

I standardized on AA as much as practical a long time ago, (OK - except for ARCs and some 123 torches) but it doesn't hurt to sustain good D cell equipment that folks already have at home. OTOH, I DID get rid of C cell stuff a few years ago and don't miss them. I have a couple of D mags that I haven't converted to LEDs yet - probably will never get around to it, as I just use the already converted ones.

Just my opinion: The most versitile "scrounger" device is something designed for 1 - 2 D cells and a set of battery adapters for it to allow AAA AA and C cells to be used.

I scanned thru Tom's shootout back when he posted it - it was better reading this time, in this context, and I paid a little closer attention to the details. Thanks for reminding me and posting the link to it!

Regards,

Tom

In principle, I agree. I just don't see how you could engineer a Petzl Zipka around AAs, though.

Have you guys tried the Panasonic Oxyride AA? I put one in my Infinity Ultra LED light. It is brighter and I am looking forward to the longer life. I bought a 4 pack at Walgreens for about $5.00.

Check this thread. Personally I'd stick with lithium AAs for better performance.

-john

Sounds good to me!

In theory I try to stick with AA's whenever possible. But as I write this, I realize I'm a little farther from that than I thought:

Digital camera = 2x AA
Garmin eTrex = 2x AA
Mini Mag = 2x AA
Petzl Tikka Plus = 3x AAA
Mag Solitaire = 1x AAA
Pelican Mini Light = 2x AAA
Surefire G2 = 2x 123
Photons = Button Cells
Mag Lite = 3x D
Pelican Light = 3x C

Maybe I should buy stock in Energizer or Duracell. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

It's what's not on that list that's good.... custom Li Ion packs.

The only Li Ion pack I have is for my cell phone. Darn near unavoidable. Everything else is readily available standard sized cells of some sort.

AA or no way... I'd be happy with "Li Ion is for Laptops".

OK, it would seem that the consensus (well ALMOST) that the AA and CR123 are basically "must-haves" and the AAA is coming up quick.

I'll NEVER give on the "button" cell issue - they are insanely expensive and unique - you can't use a nicad or alkaline or oxywhatever or lithium CR2023, and I don't like that.

Now, the CR 123 - that's an interesting thing. It's light, dense (energy wise) and I suspect that it may become a new "standard". I know I can ger 123's at just about any drugstore, so that's good.

So, I guess it's AA, 123, AAA that's all to say.

CR2032's and 2016's are no harder to find than CR123's, they're cheap if you order them online, and Photon-type coin cell lights are absolutely great, every BOB should have a handful of them. You can get the lights for a buck or so apiece or even less, and that /includes/ the coin cells.

Aside from that, I agree with the general sentiment here. I do see AAA's as a reasonable alternative to AA's. Example AA kit: CMG Ultra-G led light, Princeton Tec PT40 4AA light, generic 2AA radio, Garmin eTrex 2AA GPS, etc. Similar AAA kit: Arc AAA, Princeton Tec Rage (4AAA), Countycomm 2AAA radio, Garmin Geko 2AAA GPS, etc.

The Geko is a shrunken down version of the eTrex as far as I can tell.

FWIW, during the east coast blackout a couple years ago, all flashlights, AA cells, and D cells were sold out from stores almost immediately. But AAA cells, C cells, 9V batteries, CR123A's, etc. were plentiful. So having some battery flexibility can be useful if you need to obtain batteries from your surroundings.

AA AA can you hear ne .....WHEN I WAS 600 MILES FROM THE ARCTIC CIRCLE
YOU CANNOT FIND CR-123 OR CR-2 EVERWHERE ELSE IN THE WOLD
HAS SOME AA BATTS ,,,,,CR-123 YOU MIND AS WELL BE SPEAKING ARAMAIC.....

Most coin-type cells are lithium cells. Plus, I don't regard Photon lights as critical to my survival. They are a nice convenience, but I'll take the 150 hour battery life of my Zipka on one set of AAA's any day over the alternatives.

A Photon with a white led and a 2032 will produce usable light (enough to find your way around pitch dark with) for 150+ hours. And having a bunch of lights with you can be a big help in a group situation.

Note: lithium AA's (made by Fuji, I believe) are available for $1.00 each (qty 20) from www.batterystation.com . They have been tested extensively at CPF and their characteristics are a bit different than the much more expensive Energizer L91 cells. See CPF for details but my interpretation is that they're not -quite- as good as the Energizers, but their advantage over alkaline is very similar. They may offer lithium AAA's sometime but right now they don't.

I concur. The blackout and the savage ice storm of a few years prior to that event taught me to have some flexibility in battery usage. In metro areas, all of the popular battery sizes; AA, C, and D were nearly impossible to find. In rural areas, they were impossible to find.

A couple recent trips to very rural areas also taught me not to rely soley on the odd battery sizes. During one very recent trip, we ended up having to drive 25 miles to a small city to acquire batteries and a couple other items we take for granted at home...

M

Flexability is a GOOD thing, but don't depend on the oddballs is probably the lesson. Having a "Backup" that takes an oddball is probably a "good thing" (or a primary that takes an oddball, with a backup that is "normal")

Just remember - 2 is 1, 1 is none, and you can spread your risk a tad <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Then again, at the rate we go through AA cells in my house, I usually have 1/2 sleave sitting on my DESK, never mind the stash - gad I ca probably get 1/2 sleave out of my kids toys without blinking. Costco gets a lot of my money for bulk batteries and the like

Yes, the main issue is they start out at about 1.9V vs 1.7V of the Energizer lithiums, or 1.5V of alkalines vs 1.2V of NiMH. So, if your device is sensitive to voltage, or you are using several cells in series beware.

They have also been reported to have a odd little voltage sag during the first part of their life. Other than being a bit odd, this shouldn't cause problems other than to confuse devices that try to predict battery life -- although most of these devices don't know about lithiums anyways (although my Garmin GPSes do).

All in all it is nice to see an alternative, but make sure you understand the compatibility issues.

-john

The lesson I take away from all of this is to make sure you have enough spares of WHATEVER type of batteries you need on hand so you don't need to rely on stores.

Personally, I like AA lithiums and 123A lithiums for this purpose since they store well.

-john

So is there any such thing any more as a cell phone that takes AA or AAA batteries? My Motorola flip phone had a 6AA pack and there used to be 4AAA packs for the Star Tac. I'm not asking about external packs that plug into the charger port, but rather, phones that can be powered directly from AA or AAA packs attached to the phone in the usual way a battery pack is attached (it's ok if the AA/AAA pack is bigger than a normal pack, like the "extended" extra-thick packs we used to see for Star Tacs etc).

I remember seeing those for the old motorolas. Not anymore though, modern phones are smaller than the diameter of an AA or AAA.
The best I could figure out is finding a small flip ohone with external removable battery pack like the old motorola, then a second battery and desktop charger like the old motorola so I have two charged batteries at all times. Then a travel charger in the BOB and vehicle charger in the truck and a battery clip for it.

I live in what you could call a third world country, a couple of months ago I was tempted to change my trusty Mini-Maglites for Surefires, but the batteries are impossible to get here. You can only find them at some specialized shops downtown, since I work outdoors a lot in very remote areas that doesn't work for me.

I modified a Mini-Mag to LEDs and added a Petzl Tikka Plus and AAA Mini-Mag. Even the smallest shops in the most desserted Patagonian villages have some AA and AAA batteries (mainly used for radios).

For cellphones, the best solution I've found is a charger that has a lever which you cranck to get power. It isn't very efficient since you have to turn the lever for a while until you can have enugh power for a short conversation, but it will do in an emergency. I don't relly on my cellphone that much, though, since the damned thing has an uncanny abillity to loose the signal when I need it the most. Radios and satellite phones are the way to go.

Is there any good flashlight like Surefires or Inovas that uses regular AA or AAA batteries?

Because of the work I do, I have an almost unlimited supply of half-spent lithium AA cells from my employer. We put them in dataloggers and run them for two or three years in very remote places (see two examples on the ETS map). We replace long before they are dead in case we can't get back for a year or two.

Recently, we've started using new loggers that take 123 cells, so I'm now in the market for a new LED flashlight that takes these. So far i like the look of the Pelican M6.

For the most part, no. The AA batteries are just hard pressed to compete with the 123A batteries for high output solutions.

There are some 4xAA lights like the UK Mini Q40 and PT Tec 40 that provide about half of the output of the SF 2x123A light. The beam quality isn't nearly as good either. On the other hand, the light is almost industrutable and is inexpensive. There are also LED versions of these lights, but they have quite a bit less output. On the upside, they are even more industructable and have huge runtimes.

The only bright AA light that I know of is the PT Surge. It uses 8xAA. I understand it is a little bit finicky. It sounds like it is more likely to blow bulbs than many lights. I suspect this makes sence considering a slight variance in voltage times eight can add up. Too bad this light isn't regulated. Perhaps it would be possible to retrofit it with one of Willie Hunt's voltage regulators (LVR)?

One light that I would consider in your situation tho is the Streamlight Jr Luxeon. This light is just a bit longer than a MiniMag and is regulated (good use of poor cells) and is fairly bright. The output is good, it has a nice floody beam and is small enough for most uses (the 4xAA form factor isn't huge, but it isn't tiny either). Streamlight Lux Jr review.

Another good AA light is the Gerber Infinity. While it doesn't output a ton of light, it is very small, very sturdy, waterproof, it outputs a very reasonable amount of light and has great runtimes. In many cases this is enough light for most tasks. There is an older version (left) of this light which is arguably more robust than the new version (middle) as well as a "government" version (right) called thet Ultra-G which is the old version, but with green HA3 coating (I think). Picture. You might be able to find these on Ebay or on CPF BST.

-john

There are the Arc AAA and AA's both single cell single led lights.

Yes, the Arc is an outstanding AAA light. However, the Arc AA was a limited production and if you want one you'd have to find one used.

-john

I should also point out there are a number of custom or low production AA lights like the Peak Solutions Kino Bay 1w AA. Many of these lights might be very good but I don't tend to follow what is going on with them.

Another (future) possibility is the HDS "EDC" light. Check out the beamshot comparison between the EDC 60 and a SF E2e. This is a 1x123A light, but I think Henry, the designer has talked about making an AA battery tube for this light. If so, a 2xAA version of the EDC 60 would probably give a SF E2e a run for the money. And of course being a variable output light, it is a lot more flexible. There is a huge series of threads on CPF about HDS and the EDC where Henry sometimes posts. Of course, there are various other threads on CPF about this light as well.

-john

If you haven't looked at an HDS Systems' Ultimate 60 you should. I have two. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Or the HDS EDC Ultimate 85! :-)

EDC U85 discussion thread on CPF.

Remember to check out the beamshot comparison of EDC 60 vs SF E2e.

-john

Yeah... I've been trying to resist pulling the trigger on that one.

Currently, I think the Ultimate 60 is the sweet spot. You pay a lot more money for the 85, for not that much more light (essentially, one more level up).

Now... when Henry makes an Ultimate 120, I am so there.

I thought I read somewhere that the new company was going to bring it back

Oh and don't forget about the maglite conversions.

Actually I didn't forget, but you are right it should be mentioned.

I have several of the conversions and I like them, but I think that the Streamlight Jr Lux trumps them all because it is an integrated solution, and it includes a clicky tailcap better than you can buy (the Jr tailcap is not the same as the Kroll).

Some conversions: Opalec New Beam, Dat2Zip's Sandwich Shoppe (click on "Drop-In Sandwiches" - upper left). Dat2Zip (Wayne) also has a forum on CPF.

-john

I have a few maglites around awaiting conversion but have never gotten around to buying the convertors yet <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Don't forget the Inova X1. It is a single AA light.

Among my brighter AA-powered LED lights, I like this one. 3-watt LED, 2 x AA, ~2 hour run-time, sturdy construction, at $40 won't put huge drain on your pocketbook.

I'll add my vote to the earlier comments about the pre-Gerber CMG Infinity Ultra as a back-up light: simple, sturdy, dependable, runs forever on one AA.

Where do you get good mag light to led conversions?
I know Nite Ize makes one but I was told by someone on this forum that they were poor quality. Countycomm.com is selling the Nite Ize conversion now.

IIRC, that's the one you have to EDC a 14 pages User's Guide along, except if the Quick Start Guide is enough for you (only 2 pages...) <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Heh.

Honestly, though. I just can't understand the people that complain about it being "complex". Push the button, it turns on. Push the button, it turns off. Duuuuuhhhhhhhh.

The complexity isn't obvious. You have to know it's there. I mean, the thing only has one button and one emitter. It's only complicated if you bother to learn the menus and stuff. And even then, a little bit of practice and you can confidently change settings without carrying the docs around.

The change I find myself making the most is whether or not the light comes on at the last used brightness or not. Sometimes this is useful (like, if you want to hit the button and know it'll be bright) but sometimes you want to preset a brightness level and have the light remember it (set it to dim before entering a dark theater, for instance). Easily done through the menu... no documentation required.

The only disadvantage to the HDS that I can see is the price. It is a bit expensive. But once you hold one, you'll see why. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had the decency not to mention it ... but YOU said it... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
As for holding one.... send me yours .... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Na.... anayway I guess I will no longer spend so much money for a flashlight.

My last Nuwa? Q3 (2 x CR123), with dual mode is OK for most of what I need.
And I can't use every day every and each light I already have.
Even Photon are a bit too complex : I have a lot of Photon III and one Freedom model.
As I don't change the modes frequently, I fear I won't remember how to do it, in a dire situation... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Ya know, the QIII is a nice light. A few of my family are getting one for xmas. I just wish they were waterproof instead of water resistant.

Take a look at the links I provided.

The Newbeam is a great conversion but is a lower output model. It has 3x5mm LEDs. It is basically the "reference" of all conversion kits. I find the 3x5mm LEDs provide a very useful, flood of light. It also plugs in the same location as the bulb, so function is the same as normal.

There are a few "camps" of the higher output conversion kits. Personally I've liked the ones Dat2Zip (Waye) produces. He has a variety of modules based on what characteristics you want (brightness vs runtime). However, based on the number of choices and how these install, you need to understand the tradeoffs better than with the Newbeam.

-john

Yah, I put that one in the low production / custom catagory which I don't follow much. It looks awful nice. I dig the Sebenza-like clip.

There are also a few low cost imports that are often quite good. Again, I'm not familiar with the specifics, but look at the bottom of this page for a couple of 1W lights amondotech.com. Note that the 1W lights are probably doing about 30lumens which should be about the same as the Streamlight Jr Lux or half that of a SF E2e.

-john

You're right. The Nuwai QIII is a great light for the money. With the 1xCR123 config, relatively small carry. And I'm more than pleased with the 2xAA extender made/sold by guy on eBay. Makes it a very versatile light.

Re: Nuwa? QIII 3 watt lights
there is the "normal" one (1 battery) and the "big" one (2 batteries), the latter with a two-stage button (low-high-off) (or is that 3 stage ?? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />).
Got them from Amondotech (indirectly .... shhhh don't say it ...)

The smaller one is just the right size for a (or is it "an" ?) M-1 style pouch.

Look at this as a good "scrounger" backup light. Probably not a great primary light.

http://www.energizer.com/products/flashlights/flashlight.asp?cat=1#

That's pretty clever! Maybe adapt a low-cost LED conversion to it and it would be ready to sit in a drawer to use scrounged dry cells. Too mechanically complicated etc for a primary, I agree.

I prefer the No Way part: no battery powered disaster gear. I do use batteries in daily life (rechargeable AA), but consider anything electric to be optional to my immediate survival.

While people did survive without electrical gizmos for eons, any reasonable disaster kit in the modern era includes at minimum a flashlight and a radio. Yeah, there are those hand cranked radios, but they have rechargeable batteries inside, which go bad just like non-rechargeables. They are also pretty silly, like wearing a wind-up wristwatch to avoid possible battery failure from an electronic watch. So you're back to the battery issue and you might as well find the best way to deal with it, instead of trying to ignore it.

Do I have batteries in my gear? Yep.

Do I need them? Nope.

I know how to make a torch, but flashlights are just so much more indoors-friendly. Particularly if indoors is a hasty shelter of a a couple of branches, a mylar blanket (if that) and a bunch of forest floor litter. Not to mention smaller, and faster to light. And you don't have to extenquish it before you put it in your pocket.

Well... I suppose you culd put a lit torch in your pocket.... I do have a rather sad Dungeon's and Dragons story that involved a halfling, a pocket, and a torch.... Hehehehe.....

Eh.

I spend enough money on my gear that I'm not too worried about the power supply (battery) or the gadget itself (whatever it may be) failing. If something quits, I have spares for the important stuff (flashlights, for example).

Really, we have some wonderful new tools here in the 21st century. And if you avoid the cheap stuff, there's no reason to expect high tech gear to be any less reliable than the old school equivalent.

I?m keen to buy the AA batteries and ...the spec on the spud gun <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Why? I can see batteries being problematic for long-term survival, unless you know how to make your own. For short term I don't see a problem. You can get batteries with a shelf life of 10+ years, so it's not hard to be sure they are not dead when you come to use them. You can get torches (eg Zipka+) with burn times over 100 hours, so it's feasible to get lighting for a month or so.

What's your alternative? I have candles - I bought several hundred before I got into LEDs, and I still have most of them. However, they are a fire risk and they don't give out all that much light really. They take a lot of space and I wouldn't want to use them during an evacuation. Their main advantage is long shelf life.

"like wearing a wind-up wristwatch to avoid possible battery failure from an electronic watch"

My father wore wind-up watches for years, his pocket watch would have to be wound every day. My Rolex my grandfather left me is kinda the modern version of the wind up watch, no battery to worry about. That's not silly, non-battery watches are great. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

(My wife's voice echoing in my brain)"You do not need another flashlight...You do not need another flashlight..." <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />