WorldNetDaily and Dr. Jane Orient are beating the drum on the possibility of a nuclear attack in the US. It appears that the things you can do in increasing cost and inconvenience are: buy potassium iodide, buy a radiation detector, and install an underground shelter.

I bought a box of ThyroSafe for about ten dollars. Now I am thinking of getting the Nuk-Alert key chain alarm. It cost $160 and I’m sure my wife would think it is a total waste of money. I’m not about to put an underground shelter in my back yard but I have been looking around for shelter sites that would be better than our house.

Does anyone else have concerns about a nuclear event happening in the US?

I have a fallout shelter in the building next to my house.

Just because there is a nuclear attack in the U.S.A doesn't mean it's going to be near you. I think it's important to figure out where you live in terms of attack areas and then decide if you need any of the above.

While I understand a nuke make go off course or may happen in a random place there are places that are MORE likely to have fallout or suffer from the hit.

Haven't read the article, but would guess the more likelyhood of a dirty type nuke device versus an actual blast? Either way, being suburban Chicago and working in the Intermodal Transportation Industry are two strikes against me. As far as being concerned, yes I am extremely concerned. The various media outlets warned us for some time that we were vulnerable to terrorist attack. A well thought out, rehearsed plan and maybe an out-of-town or away from town relatives or friends house (alternate routes) equipped with supplies, food, water, ammo is what most I know have planned for.

Craig-

You mention potassium iodide. Here's an interesting discussion of alternatives, one being the topical application of a 2 percent tincture of Iodine.

I know that everyone on this forum is mindful of the obvious: in the wrong hands, or administered to the wrong people, any of these "cures" could be worse than the "disease."

Your question about the likelihood of a nuclear event...I'm not a doomsdayer by any stretch, but clearly 9/11 [should have] taught us that we no longer have the luxury of believing that certain events are "unthinkable." Particularly if one puts any credence in articles such as "Al-Qaida nukes already in U.S.".

Just my $.02.

Dan

I agree, worldnetdaily is hamming the drumbeat of a nuke attack and they got me to subscribe to their special bulletin for at least a month, but I quit it when I realized that a lot of his info is single sourced, which is not the kind of information I would want to bet my life on, or pay 9.95 a month for. That said, I purchased the nuke-alert keychain from nitro-pak.com a couple of months ago for $119, a savings over the $160 from the nuke alert website. after having it for a day or so, I sent it back, figuring the $120 cost would buy a lot of other survival gear that might be more useful. I had a thread on this forum related to the nuke alert -- you can search that if you wish. worldnetdaily listed the potential targets for nuke attack, if you are in one of those areas, I might consider the keychain, but since I am in central ohio and not listed on the supposed terror target list, I didn't keep it. I am making other preparations including Iosat tablets. I think we will probably suffer some type of nuke attack in the future, who knows when or by who -- and an emp attack 200 miles above the U.S. or a dirty bomb are the likely scenarios. but terrorists are creative and may do something totally different. Try to be as prepared as you can, but be smart with your expenditures, get the most for your money.

I live in Chicago, so I've been watching/reading the news very intently of late. I bought KI tabs awhile back and am interested in the Nukalert (I'll have to read the existing thread). For a time, I'd thought that an Escape from Chicago would be the best option in a large-scale terrorist attack, but I'm second-guessing the feasibility of that now. As it is, it takes me over an hour to get anywhere remotely "remote." In an evacuation scenario, I think that sheltering in place might be the only option, at least for the first few days. I live in an apartment building, so it would be a little tricky, As to the likelihood of a nuclear event, I think it's inevitable. But I also think that there will be a lot of folks who "never thought it could happen" who will die needlessly for their lack of preparation.

Eh ... being in NYC I still feel (4 years later) that we've all got big red bull's-eyes painted on our backs. But I still feel that the likelihood of a "dirty bomb" attack here is much, much higher than the likelihood of a true thermonuclear explosion -- much easier (technically) than actually achieving fission and almost as good at stampeding the general public into hysteria, even though the actual body count would be much lower with a dirty bomb. Just my $0.02.

I have a lot of "questions" about the validity of the "news" coming out of Worldnet Daily and about them as a "news" source in general.

Brian, I am with you. We are subjected to so very much propaganda, and I cannot help but wonder what hidden agendas are at work.

Living in central San Antonio [seven melitary bases, depending upon how you count, maybe 10-15], I cannot help but think that should somebody set out to do some serious damage to the 'homeland' it should be here.

I just can't get real exercised about this. Perhaps I became unured to the concept as a small child, when we retired to the basement of my school for nuclear drills, and the SAC pilot's kid next to me said, when the teachers told us to put out heads between our kness, 'kiss your ass goodbye'.

I just found this on ebay: watch w/ build in radiation detector.

http://cgi.ebay.com/GammaMaster-Watch-Pe...1QQcmdZViewItem

Honestly: yes I did think about it. It is something that bothers me a great deal whenever we do a suspicious package on the train job. It bothers me becasue I can't see it and for real we are kind of helpless against the exposure. And now on the subject of radiation detectors:

Many companies are trying to cash in on the fear of general public. There are key chains, watches and clip on detectors that you can buy. Are they a real deal? Some of them are but they are not really that sensitive. The scale basically has to settings: 1. nothing 2. you got 30 min or less

Now the real detectors are priced around $1000. Those are pagers and clip ons that richer Fire Dept and agencies have.

This is what my dept is using and I have no confidence in it since I like to test my equipment and I brought it right by an xray machine taking 3 shots. Nothing happened.
http://www.ludlums.com/product/mK8.htm

What I wanted to buy but gave up due to crazy money are either one of those two.
http://www.laurussystems.com/products/mini_rad-d%20gamma_pager.htm

or one designed for ems and first responders:
http://www.raesystems.com/products/gammarae_ii

Now personally I would buy any of the above meters for my own use on the job BUT being on city money I can't afford them. Same stuff goes for other equipment. 12 lead EKG machines for pocket PCs that run close to $2500. Sometimes I wonder who designs all that stuff and who do they target as their customers... People who can benefit from these developments can't afford them.

I recently went to the ER and had to get an X-ray. The tech had a thing on her shirt that I think measured radiation. Would something like that work?

I think those are for the amount of radiation you absorb and not when radiation is detected but I will be in the ER on wed and than I ask one of our techs. Unless of course someone from the forum gets the crack at it first.

At my previous school, I could have nabbed onto an old Civil Defense Radiation monitor with pen monitor, etc. but I left it in place. It got thrown away the next summer by someone who had no idea how valuable it was.

IIRC, Gama rays and X-rays are not the same, exept they overlap in one frequency range. Maybe these detectors are not set to register the X-rays you submitted them to.

(My physics notions are a bit rusty...)

Those dosimeters are designed to register the accumulated amount of Xrays doses received by the wearer.

Depending on what you want to measure, you will need different types of devices : alpha, beta and gamma "rays" are quite different and won't be detected by the same devices.

I think WND's news is generally legit and usually a day or two ahead of the mainstream media in reporting certain things. It is coming from a definite perspective however, and I could see how some of the heavy self-promotion would be offputting. I guess we all need to be diligent about seeking a variety of sources for our news and to take everything WND, CNN, the NY Times, etc. says/writes with a grain of critical salt.

OK, this is a bit complicated, so stick with it.

There's two types of radiation, "ionizing" and "non-ionizing". Ionizing radiation is the Bad Stuff that literally alters the atomic structure of the materials it's hitting, making it radioactive as well. These radiations come in various flavors. You also have gamma, alpha and beta radiation, which are just different terms for types of radiation.
When you have a radiation detector, you're looking for your ionizing radiation, stuff that's emiting and altering the stuff around it. X-Rays, while harmful (they will burn you and can cause cancers) are NOT the sirt of radiation that these radiation detectors are looking for, because they are not the same kind of rays that would emit from a source of radiation. basically, with X-Rays, you take away the energy, the radiation stops. With a true radio active source, the plutonium, the radium, the uranium IS the source of the energy and the fission byproducts are the radioactivity.

It's more complicated than that, but suffice it to say that an x-ray won't annoy a radiation detector. If you want to test it, find a nice big granite wall somewhere and put it right up against it. You'll get a "hit" from that in many places, because Granite (and many other rocks) are naturally radioactive to a degree.

Info about radiation types:

Alpha: Wikipedia Article

Beta: NRC Article

Gamma: Wikipedia article

There's more I'd like to say, but until I can find the documentation to support what I think I remember, I'll wait.

Matt

The next time you are at the hospital with afew minutes to spare, go to Nuclear Medicine (probably somewhere in x-ray). They will have multiple Gamma sources and Geiger counters, this will give you some idea of the sensitivity of you personal detector.

The radiation monitors usually worn in medicine are either film badges or occasionally "crystal" rings (retrospective - they tell you how much radiation exposure you had LAST month).

X-ray machines would NOT cause detection by a Gamma detector - different type of radiation

There was a fictional novel written in the 50's (I think), probably after the Bay of Pigs scare. It was called 'Alas, Babylon' by Pat Frank. It detailed what one man in FL did with a couple of days warning that there was going to be a nuclear war. It was interesting to read now what he did that was right and what he did that was wrong. Also what other people did. Quite an interesting read.

Sue

I read that book many years ago, and enjoyed it.

I just built a 10X12 fallout/storm shelter in my basement, I got the plans off the internet, it's design was intended as a fallout shelter but when I decided to build the storm shelter I figured why not build it fallout proof as well. A nuke attack didn't weigh on my plans I just figured since I was building might as well build it for any eventuality.

Shadow Out!!!

Did Frank get all the street names right?

Sue

Watch this movie.

http://www.hbo.com/films/dirtywar/index.html

Disturbing

Check out Nuclear War Survival Skills via search engine. It also has the plans for the Kearney Fallout Meter.

Alas Babylon is a great book, although its been many years since I read it. Isn't the made for TV movie "The Day After" based on the book? I'm pretty sure it is. Great movie too. Jason Robards is awesome.

Seems to me that, if a nuke goes off ANYWHERE, you are gonna be aware of it. And so much is gonna be happening, no one will care if your little gizmo shows that you have been absorbing some rays. Hospitals will be filled to overflowing with folks who got zapped bigtime...

Polak, the Ludlum device you are using will work fine for any dose that represents a significant hazard. It is designed to be a "get-out-of-dodge" device that doesn't require any more training than, "if it goes off, leave the scene". It is adequate for that purpose. It will not go off for a typical x-ray because the beam isn't on long enough to activate the detector. Find a fluoroscope or some radioactive material and it will work just fine.

The other devices you listed, although I am not personally familiar with them, are a little more advanced, and probably work just fine. The are designed for a different purpose though, and cost more money. They also require a little knowledge to know what info is being relayed to the user and what that information means as far as risk is concerned. As evidenced from some of the posts here, many first responders have not received that level of training.

Personal dosimeters (as mentioned in a separate post) have no alarming capability and are simply used to track occupational dose after the fact. I wear one everyday. They work very well, but provide no warning as to the dose or dose rate as it is actually accumulated, and are therefore not particularly useful for first responders.

We have evaluated several electronic personal dosimeters, and as far as simplicity is concerned the Laurus RADOS Rad-60 is relatively inexpensive and easy to use. They are fairly durable to boot. As you noted, there are lots of options out there these days, and if you don't know what you need or how they work you can spend a lot of money on hype, or buying more than what you need.

Any of these units will have to be maintained and calibrated annually to ensure functionality. This too costs money.

If you have any more questions on rad detection instrumentation, or rad safety in general, feel free to drop me a line (gsackett1 at hotmail dot com).

Be safe out there...

Greg