Altoid tins were first used by the british SAS units. Their near universal distribution and association with this idea has made them the standard container. Eventually most people locate a larger unit. I have my Altoids, Swedish surplus aluminum boxes, BCB unit and tobacco tin. Chris Janowski of WSI markets his kits in round containers. Containers go back a long way ; back there with knives and fire, the first mimicked copy of a cave or natural brush shelter, the ones carried by Oetzi.I like them all, provided my mind isn't taped into one.

I emailed Doug several years ago (and got a reply) about using an altoids tin. I know that this is incredibly vain, but I wonder if I was "the first"? I don't have an archive of that email but Doug might.

Chris; Good points, as always. But I may be approaching this from a slightly different point of view than others on this forum. <br><br>A few years ago, my local branch of the Recreational Aircraft Association (similar to the EAA, we're a bunch of home-builders) was looking for potential topics of interest for our monthly meeting guest speakers. I suggested to the co-ordinator that a lecture on Wilderness Survival in the event of an off-airport landing would be of interest; he responded "Okay, I'll put you down for June." And hey presto, I was an "instant expert" ;-)<br><br>One of the criticisms I got at that lecture was when I showed my own "survival kit", which at that time fit inside a large Ziplock Freezer Bag (IIRC). The response was "I fly a homebuilt, I barely have enough room for an overnight bag, let alone all that stuff." I have since found out that the majority of people can't be bothered to keep a survival manual in their glove compartment, let alone carry a PSK when they're hiking in a Provincial or National Park. (I wonder if the fact that they're in a 'Park' gives them a sense of false confidence?) <br><br>So I personally would prefer to have a PSK that is small enough to fit in my shirt or jacket pocket and let me forget about it, with a larger SK in my backpack. I figure the SAS Pocket Guide in one jacket pocket, the Altoids tin in another, and a Survival blanket in my shirt pocket *should* be enough to see me through most nights.

One thing I forgot to mention, that I like about the rectangular tin; you can Krazy Glue several lighter flints to the outside rim. You can't do that on a circular tin, that I can see, and still be able to strike a decent spark.

Andy,<br><br>Close, perhaps very close, but no cigar. <br><br> While you were early (I keep all my outgoing email and my reply to you was on 11/30/98), not quite early enough. The frist email I have that mentions an Altoids tin was off the primitive survival listserve on 1/9/98, first message to me suggesting one for use in a PSK was on 4/5/98. You appear to have been number six in that sequence. <br><br>Bear in mind that I started using this email software when I got my new computer at that time for the holidays in 1997, anything prior would have been lost and quite frankly, I don't really recall if there was one prior. That was also not long after the first PSK kit info was posted to ETS, where I requested other suggestions. <shrug><br><br>What a trip down memory lane...<br>

Cool! Thanks for the reply!

I find the round tin, to be more water tight. That about the only difference... I was making lite of it.....I prefer water tight, and if the Altoid tin was I would prefer it for size. Both will fit a shirt pocket...... I have both, but do not store fire making in the Altoids... Like I said I don't keep and use the main stream items used here. But then I don't fly. I am curiouse as to how "Flints" glued to a tin can be used, as what do you do with them? Mac<br>

>>. I am curiouse as to how "Flints" glued to a tin can be used, as what do you do with them?<br><br>Start a fire. They're just regular lighter flints. Same as the idea somebody had of gluing 5 of them to a key blank and carrying it on your keychain. <br><br>I think most of the stuff inside my Altoids tin is fairly waterproof anyway. Candle, snare wire, fish hooks, fishing line, dental floss, needles, wire saw, metal rings for the wire saw (of different sizes, so one can fit inside the other), aluminium foil, Fresnel lens, 4 waterproof matches. The whistle has no pea to get waterlogged. I don't know about the hexamine tablet - would that dissolve in water? <br><br>How watertight is the round tin, anyway? (Would it survive a trip through the washing machine?) And realistically, how watertight does it need to be?<br><br>Philosophically, I tend to believe in redundancy rather than quality. Having the most expensive mag-flint combination in the world on my keychain is no use if my keys are in the aircraft ignition and the aircraft is under 40 feet of water.

The round tin is water tight enough to float.. and to keep tinder dry.... Like I said I don't do the same things as others here do with the tins... And I do not fly.... I did start to fly once, and I liked it but things took a turn in life and I never went back to flying....<br><br>In my tin is a 3/4" ball of Guda cheese wax... No one here seems to have that.. I have fixed cuts in my canoe with it. I keep a 1750-1840 circa flint and steel, and a bit of jute twine. The twine can be cordage, or tinder, along with any linen, or cotton that has been charred.... Also I have 2 kinds of shelf fungas which catch and hold sparks. A burning lens from a broken binoculars set. A bone bodkin from a deer Ulna , and steel ball point needles, with deer sinew, and common polyester/cotton thread. Sometimes there is a bit of synthectic sinew, which is a extremly strong nylon, that can be split down to 6 sometmes 8 parts all of equal length.<br><br>So my kit must stay dry.... charr, fungas, sinew, and jute twine are about usless soaked..<br><br>I know some tins act as a double duty mirror for some here. Mine does not, but it is the tool that I make charr with. I highly disagree with the idea that heating these tins red hot, and often harms them.<br><br>I burn the paint off mine as best I can, and don't bother to worry about the white residue that remains for a few ore burnings.... After the first I would say the tin gets very hot, but maybe not red hot anymore. What I do is add materials what ever they may be to charr, and toss the tin in a fire,,,watch for the smoke to stop, flip the tin, watch again, and remove the tin...... Then with-draw the tin from the fire and let it cool untill it is cool to the touch....If you open it hot the charr will go up fast....<br><br> I attempt to have my charr cook to some black with tan when done. The reason is that the tan while it won't catch a spark, will blow into a flame. The full black charr will not blow into a flame and must have tinder added.<br><br>I have given many of these tins to cold folks in the past....<br>Often I have found folks that were suffering from being out in "Ice in the Bucket" weather. That is when the fungas comes in handy beside being a good spark catcher, it can be added to in size, and once it has a spark water is the only way to stop it. It will act like a coal in a almost no O2 environment... A very good pocket heater once wrapped in a rag, and placed in a pocket near the heart.<br><br>I do redundancy as well..... I wear a hat that has needles, and threads tucked in the band, and a small razor sharp blade made from a file tucked in the rear hem. That blade is a total of 1" long, about 1/2 is handle, but it will slice bull elk neck hide in one determined slice. That elk is 1/2"+ thick often.<br><br>I have forgottenabout that tiny blade to go fly on a commercial jet places, and not had a problem, but the way things are now I better not forget it...... I am not sure how to go about flying these days as often I need a cutting device at the airport where I land.... My luggage ain't exactly what you would condsider the "Norm" either ;-)<br><br>The main problem is redundancy for the flint and steel type I use, but I carry 1 in a pocket, 1 in a shooting bag, and 1 on a hunting belt, that is a 2 finger size. Also my flint gun will do the job empty or loaded. Never using gun powder ever!!!!! That would be a error, and wastefull....<br><br>I have carried fishing hooks, but don't need too. I can make them from a needle if forced to. I prefer to make them from a twig and bits of owl (or other) droppings which contain white bone. The bone acts as bait. Beech twigs have just the right shape, and wrapped with sinew and waxedover they are waterproof and will take trout all day long.<br><br>I have not used a band aid in some years, and see no reason to carry such a thing.... I guess some folks don't want to stain clothing..... When I get cut I force blood from the wound for a bit to clean it... Wash with water, and forget it.....For a bigger cut a band aid ain't gonna do squat anyway... so I see no point. For that rags and or moss work for me. I try not to get cut that bad. usually when I get cut it is what some folks would think is a very bad cut, but I am used to it.... If you show me a flint knapper that don't get cut, he ain't been knappin.... pretty simple concept... Some of the stone I work is 400 X sharper than the best surgical steel known today, and it does not cut, it divides molecules. When you divide molecules about 1/2 deep x 1 1/2" long you tend to bleed profuslly, and the common band aid for that works about as good as tryin to hold back the St. Lawrence River with a Kotex....It ain't a happin deal, if you know what I mean...<br><br>Well I hope that explains part of my views on this..... Sorry about the length....... BTW I still don't know how you use the flints glued to a tin/kek or other?? How do you get a spark? and what do you catch that spark with? I ain't got a clue... Mac

Thanks for the tip about taking char to part-black part-tan, I'll try that- though it must take a pretty good judgement to pull the tin at the right time- perhaps you're packing your char tin tighter than I do. I've always taken it to all black, and used seperate tinder to take the ember to flame. Along with cotton, linen, and bracket fungus, I've had good success using punk (dry, rotted wood) for making char. It doesn't flame, but it catches and holds a spark well.<br><br>I have a tiny 2-finger firesteel, the classic closed "C" shape with curlicues, that is only 2 inches long and was dug up along Braddock's Road. I can barely get two fingertips into it, but it sparks well. I have heard people say that they did not make them this small. It's not true.<br><br>As I'm sure you know, modern cigarette lighter "flints" are not flint and will strike sparks with any hard-edged striker, not just with a properly hardened firesteel. So long as they are partly exposed, then, a row of them can be glued into any groove, end to end, and a sharp edge run down the length will strike a shower of sparks. It's putting a lot of faith in the glue, though.<br>