I am looking to carry my survival kit contents 24/7 in a concealed manner: all day long and while sleeping. I also want to integrate my Mora2000 knife into it. I cannot find anything that satisfies my requirements. I thought someone here has been faced with a similar need and found a solution. I am at the point of designing and constructing this myself. I'd rather find some off the shelf solution though.Here are the parameters:
1 - Distribute the survival pack contents by using a lower leg "stash" on both left and right leg. That would balance the load and keep concealment low profile.
2 - The knife sheath is integrated into only one of the leg stashes.
3 - It is removeable quickly but very secure while wearing.
4 - It is soft and comfortable in desert heat.
The design I am thinking of at this point would be made of a combination of neoprene and velcro fabric. It would fit like a sock running from just below the calf to just above the ankle - a double walled empty tube with closure along top seam - one leg would have the knife sheath embedded into the wall.
As for the particular contents, I've got that covered and it's all the usual suspects except for a couple of "bulky" items ; a mylar survival "Space" blanket, and a McNett Survival Straw.
So if anyone has any input on this I would appreciate it.
Thank you.

please do not be to tied to your preconceived notions as to how things ought to work. There is an ancient adage in philosphical logic that no amount of manipulation can turn an 'ought' into an 'is'.

Just hang out for a while here. This is the most intellectual, least testosterone laden site on the 'web. If that's for you, welcome.

Some thoughts:
Neoprene is NOT a comfortable all-day wear.
Might want to look at the new nite-ize stuff
http://www.niteize.com/productdetail.php?category_id=28&product_id=118
http://www.niteize.com/productdetail.php?category_id=28&product_id=100

Having worn a knee brace made of neoprene and velcro for a period of 3 months, I can state this as fact:
You are not going to be comfortable wearing that contraption.
Period.
Rethink your concept, I am sure someone here can help.

Well ok then - neoprene is out. I just got out of a temporary ankle cast and found the velcro/foam wrap pretty comfortable.
Randjack - Actually I am attempting to break from preconceived notions - all these neck bags (good for choking on while sleeping) and belt packs and tins (I don't wear a web belt - interferes with my external frame pack belt) and create something I have not seen before that will be with me all the time.
Complacency offers no progress.

It seems that it would be difficult to pack your stuff into any kind of pouch that would be slim enough to not look lumpy.

Aren't you going to have to wear kind of baggy pants?

And if you have to wear baggy pants anyway, why not just get those with all the pockets? At least your stuff will be accessible. I watched a guy fumble with getting his cash out of his sock to pay for his limo ride. It was rather amusing to say the least! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Sue

My experience with this kind of thing :

I tried an Eagle Creek ankle pouch for a few months :
- the velcro links were rapidly out of business...
- when it's hot, you perspire a lot and even if frequently washed, the pouch rapidly stings !
- it was OK in the concealment department

I guess if made out of other materials it may be fine.

I had no problem re: concealment, with normal pants, when using such a pouch.

And it being only for PSK emergency gear - no EDC convenience items in there -, I never had to reach for it, which in fact is a bit akward.

Susan - The idea is to spread the contents through so the profile is kept slim and hugs the leg. Loose pants are standard wear anyway. Only the PST contents are there - not money , ID(a copy only), etc.

Welcome to the forum.

I have some experience with calf and ankle holsters and sheaths. IMHO the very best of them very soon become very uncomfortable. They also can hang up and hamper movement.

I'd love to know why you want to conceal your PSK beyond what would be achieved by kit(s) in a pocket. Surely such concealment wouldn't evade any search of your person.. and I have no idea why you'd want to do so. Why??

Consider: any inexpensive seamstress and many laundries can lengthen pants pockets. I've added about 4" depth for CCW carry, with no obvious visable changes. I've also "piggybacked" a pocket to the outside (thigh side)of the existing pocket. Drop your pants.. look at how the pocket is sewn in.. and imagine another one as a Siamese twin to the one already there. You have to unzip your fly to get to that pocket, but... well that's another story.

A clearer idea regarding exactly what you'll be trying to conceal may get you better suggestions.

I bought a Blackhawk ankle pouch thinking I'd carry some stuff in it. Worked well, but was kind of hassle. I bought it for extra capacity, not concealment. There's only so much stuff I'm willing to carry in my pockets. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Now, think about this for a sec.. I carry an HDS 60 (1" x 3"), fox 40 whistle, Arc AAA, Sebenza, fire steel and Leatherman in my pants pockets now. And I have bulging pockets. I haven't added all the other stuff that various people carry everyday, and a fanny pouch or waist pouch won't work in my environment. So, I was hoping an ankle pouch would give discreet (not necessarily concealed... differerent connotation) carrying capacity.

My experience, if you're willing to live with the downsides of an ankle pouch, it can add about an extra pocket worth of carrying capacity. More, probably, since the stuff in the pouch would only be accessed rarely and could be packed more tightly. Might be an excellent place to carry one of the micro PSKs recently discussed.

I can come up with several reasons for concealment of a PSK.

1. Social. I know that I break out in hives when I don't have a leatherman tool at least near me, but suit pants just don't really cut it for carrying gear.

2. Security. PSK's have "interesting" stuff in them. If I was in a place where interesting stuff might attract too much attention, I'd not want something as obvious as a waist pack on my person.

3. Urban Environment. The IED and Car Bomb are two very real things, and both can leave you entrapped in a building for a while. You might not need it at hand, but to have gear with you isn't a bad idea.

4. It's cool.

It seems you are trying to design a knife/kit ankle hoster. Look at the holster market and adapt from there. Ankle holsters are good for deep concealment, but generally considered uncomfortable. If you have the desire, (such as a cop's need for deep back-up pistol), you will be able to tolerate it, but 24/7?

Bianchi or Safariland used to make an ankle holster like you are describing. It was taken off the market in the 1980's because it was too uncomfortable to wear.

There are several companies that make "ankle wallets" out of nylon and they may work for you. Or you could attempt to take police duty belt gear and attach elastic and velcro to make an ankle rig.

While working as store security I had my wife help me make one out of a nylon handcuff case and elastic strapping with velcro. It worked fine with cuffs and stayed in place. As cuffs weigh less than a pistol it wasn't as bad as ankle holsters I've worn over the years.

One thing though if you attempt it make sure it stays tight against the leg. Other wise it will both print, and or snag the pants and become a hinderance.

Also in some jurisdictions concealing a knife under garments is a legal no-no and can land you in the pokey, which is not my idea of fun.

Also you may want to look at a kit based upon a dive knife which already has straps attached.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Roger that. The ONLY ankle holster that I ever tried that didn't feel like a ball and chain after a few hours is the S&W boot holster, and that isn't really that subtle unless you wear long pants and 8"+ boots every day.

I have yet to see any system that works for me with virtually any weight of gear. Try jogging with even a 4oz pocketknife strapped to your ankle and you'll see what I mean. However, I personally believe that you must be able to run, jump and be upside-down with your EDC remaining securely in place and that is a major influence on my opinion here. YMMV.

Ditto on neoprene NOT being comfortable for all day wear.

Thanks Groo for the input. Interesting leads...I am downsizing the weight as we speak and doing some major rethinking because of the opinions I've gotten on the posts which are all appreciated. The question has to be - what's the least one can do with in the way of materials...
NAro, regarding your post, the reasons for concealing a PSK are several. First off, the need for a PSK is only as a last measure fallback survival pack to be used when you have nothing else because of a worst possible scenario situation like: loosing all your gear while fording a river, theft or destruction of your gear by humans, etc...the human is the animal I fear most in the backcountry because of their unpredictable, violent and destructive nature. (the only animal that kills and maims for no reason - even invented a word for it - "sport"). If one does not have the PSK attached to your body at all times you are at risk. Pants pockets are fine if you are wearing those pants, sleeping in those pants, and don't mind the constant chaffing.Any gear packs attached to your belt or outside your clothing are readily apparent and obviously contain something valuable....

This is not an answer to all your reasons for wanting a leg carry, but I have had good luck carrying a second wallet. It's nylon, and has room for a Leatherman, single-cell AAA Maglite, butane lighter, signal mirror, flat whistle, alcohol preps, money, spare credit card, car key.

I have carried concealed with a leg holster, and have never had any luck in the comfort department. The least objectionable I have found is by Bianci (I think) and is lined with wool pile. On the other leg, I've used a breathable cotton-nylon leg wallet for a spare mag, which is O.K. as long as you don't try to overload it.

Last thought: Ever tried a full-out run wearing something on your ankle? You'll have gear all over the street.

I don't know if it would meet your requirements, but I have made something that might inspire you :

http://www.davidmanise.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=matos;action=display;num=1121850443

I've posted the explanations and pictures on a french forum I hang on a lot.
It is made of Cordura 500D (camo) with YKK weather resistant zippers, Velcro hook and loops and Duraflex hardware. It took me several hours of work, of course.

bye

Fabrice

FWIW I have had a couple of gear setups that I carried for a while litterally 24/7, even in my sleep. They were all attached to my body via neck lanyard using a breakaway clasp of various sorts with specific tension related breaking points designed specifically for preventing me from choking myself. Choking yourself in your sleep seems almost impossible however getting hung on a tree branch or something like that certainly seems reasonable, but then thats where the breakaway latch comes in to play. If/when I feel I require 24/7 gear (including during sleep) I would not hesitate to go back to the neck lanyard method... and trust me I have tried every method on earth at least twice. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> As always though YMMV. Good luck in your quest.

Brian - Thanks for your posts. I am hearing and listening to everyone's opinions here which are proving very valuable. I am totally reconsidering the leg carry. I have been walking around with a temporary ankle rig for a couple of days and it is indeed not comfortable. So a neck rig using the breakaways you suggest would be my next stop. I want to try to spread out the gear on the rig though - maybe more of a sewn U shaped fabric collar than a necklace. Again, this is something I have never seen... I have a Lewis and Clark neck pouch which I find feels too cumbersome on the neck when loaded with more than a couple of ounces. Hanging from cords that dig into the neck is constantly annoying. So I guess it's back to the drawing board...

Do a search for BellyBand or ankle holster, you would be better off with a belly band. Thier is one brand that has many pocket's that would be idealy suited for your need's. Found it The Bodyguard http://www.magills.com

akabu - that's an interesting idea...looks easy to make - a doubled up ace bandage with velcro adjusters and closures...pretty sweaty though...

Perhaps something worn bandolier across the body would work?

Weight distribution and strap width would be important factors. Too much weight on one side for the strap width would cause it to try to hang at the lowest point.

Perhaps a t-shirt with pockets sewn in specifically designed for certain items, worn as undershirt.

Definitely an idea. I may have to try that. It would work like one of the photographer's vests. Maybe even add some reinforcement such as over the shoulders.

My question wasn't regarding concealing a PSK per se. It was "why conceal one beyond what you can achieve in a pocket". Each to his own.

When I've been in situations in which pants pockets aren't a good option (e.g. boating, with swim suit... Fly fishing..etc.) I use an AquaPak around my neck.