Those of you who use it where do you get it and what's a GOOD price?

Also I`m wondering if I can store it in my MSR fuel bottles? I haven't seen the specs on them for "allowable" liquids so i`m curious if I can store denatured alcohol in it..

Thanks

Hardware or Home Improvement stores, usually in or near the paint department. It's a little pricey that way - about $7 a gallon IIRC. I can get it much cheaper from a local oil company, but I don't really need 5 gallons (or more).

It's pretty easy to store - a clean plastic bottle will do fine. AFAIK it should be OK in an aluminum fuel bottle, but why bother? Go a little fancier if you like and get a small red plastic Nalgene fuel bottle.

I am not sure about price, but I get mine at the local Lowe's or Home Depot in the paint area.

You can store it in just about anything...I have used aluminum fuel bottles, the Nalgene fuel bottle(mentioned in next post) but I think my favorite is just the plain old 20 oz pop bottle. Light weight, disposable and 20 oz of denatured alcohol would run a pop can stove for several weeks if you were just boiling cups of water at a time for meals or purification.

Yes you can store it in the MSR fuel bottle but be ready to clean them up later on becasue of the small residue it leaves behind.

Also as something that you guys may not know but denaturated alcohol used to be a drink of choice for the poor working class during PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. times in Poland. They would put a piece of bread to act as a filter in order to take out the color and impurities. Crazy stuff I tell ya.

Thanks guys! I want to use the AL bottles for durability as they won't break as easy as the plastic ones if the pack was to fall. I haven't seen the Nalgene one but I`m sure it's TOUGH but I have the MSR ones already... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Any hardware store or X-Mart, also any lumber/DIY store, look in the paint section/department.

Troy

In my opinion, and I suspect I shall take flack for this, 91% denatured ATOH is a perfectly adequate substitute. Available in all drug stores @ less than $1.00

The denatured is OK, but it doesn't burn as hot or as clean... longer to heat and sootier pot/cup. The nice thing about these things is that they'll burn just about anything, grain alcohol works great, and there's the side benefit that you can use part of your fuel to spike the "end of the day" punch <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Troy

Drugstore is Isopropyl Alcohol and from what i`ve heard Denatured burns hotter and longer is this not true?

Isopropyl is also more $ as you pay onyl $1 but you don't get to much.... You can get bigger ones at wally world for a lil more but I think $5/gallon is cheaper for denatured.

I respectfully submit that I was unable to decipher what you were trying to say.

Ok...

The alcohol you find in drugstores is Isopropyl Alcohol, and from what I have read/heard Denatured burns longer and hotter. You then mentioned it was only $1, this is true but for a very small amount you can get Denatured by the gallon (apparently) and thus cheaper than $1/bottle Isopropyl.

I also asked if what I had read/heard was correct in respect to the Denatured burning hotter, longer, and cleaner(no black residue?) compared to Isopropyl.

I hope that's clear.

Denatured alcohol (aka shellac thinner) is all burnable.

Isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol is usually 70% alcohol + 30% water, but sometimes you can get a higher percentage of alcohol. It's very difficult to get 100% alcohol.

Since water doesn't burn, I'm sure it must cut down on the efficiency (& therefore heat) of the other 70%.

If you need heat, you need heat. For the small amount you would usually need, the savings for buying water to burn has got to be fairly negligible.

Sue

Thanks Susan.

On the bottles I have Rubbing is 70% you are correct. I however remembring seeing soething that said 90% at wal-mart i`ll have to go back and check that out it may be worth investigating.

Denatured alcohol is basically 100% alcohol with some poisons added so people won't drink it. It is superior to the 70% to 90% mixtures for the reason Susan mentioned..no water. If you were to burn the 70% in a pop can stove..it would smoke more, be less efficient and leave black soot on your pot...but then in a survival situation I could give a crap about some soot on my pot. Don't take our word for it though...build you a stove and then experiment with it. You may also want to check out this website..pretty good resource. Alcohol Stove basics

True on all counts... I turned it around in the first post, denatured is better than isopropyl. Sorry about that

Troy

I usually use Everclear in my Alc. stoves...

It is expensive, but is is clean burning and does not smell, at all, as bad as the other stuff...

By the way... I do not drink......

I may just have to use some for the same purpose! I`ve had some for a little over a year and other than TRYING to make some punch with it it's never been used!

Seems like we've ordered denatured alcohol for people...I'll check the price Monday, I don't think a pint was too expensive if I recall....

A quick look at shopping.com lists it for $3.39 per quart for denatured alcohol. WalMart probably sells a quart of 70% isopropyl alcohol for less than $1.50.

OTOH, you can probably buy a quart of isopropyl alcohol and a cheap knife at the Dollar Store for a grand total of $2 + local taxes! <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

But the denatured stuff really cleans goop off nearly everything.

Sue

Sue, every Walgreens has 91% iso, and it burns real good, if you will pardon my grammer.

Probably a re-hash, but: Ethanol aka ethyl alcohol aka grain alcohol is by a slight margin the best fuel in these non-pressurized burners. It burns very cleanly and has a tiny bit more fuel value than methanol aka methyl alcohol aka wood alcohol. It SHOULD be the fuel of choice for pop can stoves but: The problem with ethanol is.... it's expensive as heck because BATF puts a sin tax, er, excise tax on it because it's drinkable.

So ethanol is "de-natured" to make it poisonous to drink. Exact ingredients vary and BATF must approve the denaturing ingredients/proportions, some of which are pretty nasty things to burn. AFAIK, the MAJOR ingredient used in denaturing is methanol, which is fine - I have read that it's as much as 50% and have also read that there are really only a couple (two) suppliers of denatured alcohol in the US - their products are the house brands for everyone else. The other ingredients used to denature are petro chemical solvents, some of which you would NOT want to burn on purpose. But denatured is easy to obtain, looks like it burns cleanly, and is affordable.

Methanol is the "racing fuel" and is by far the least expenssive to retail purchase if you go to a local oil company and purchase it in "bulk" - that means bring your own container, DOT approved and labeled. This also burns exceptionally well and has nearly the same heat value as grain alcohol. Years ago my family (me as a kid) frequently used a marine-type alcohol heater (think giant zippo with an adjustable wick a la oil lamp) and this is the fuel we used in it - relatively cheap for alcohol, no additives, clean burning, etc. I own the heater nowadays and don't recall using it since aquiring a propane-fuel cat heater 20+ years ago. I have not purchased any methanol recently, but I expect that it is little more than gasoline these days on a volume basis - maybe $4 or $5 per gallon in small quantities, less in larger quantities. (Which makes it, like all alcohols, expensive in terms of fuel value - gasoline has nearly 10 times the heat value as meths on a volume basis)

Then there is isopropanol aka isopropyl alcohol aka rubbing alcohol. It has more heat value than the other two and as a consequence burns a little sooty in pop can stoves. The soot really isn't that big of a deal unless it just bugs a person. Stoves will run on common isoprop (70%), but that's a pretty poor fuel - the 91% mentioned is much better, and 100% is available - read the labels on fuel line de-icers like HEET - some de-icers use methanol and others use isopropanol; the trend has been towards iso for some time. If all you need is 8 - 12 oz of fuel, a buck or so is all de-icer costs. If it is a brand that comes with a screw-on vs press-on cap, you also have a fuel bottle for that weekend light-weight trip.

Expanding for a moment on the fuel de-icer: Hit the automotive aisles / stores and get one of each (meth and iso) and try them out to see which suits you best. All things considered, including the small amount most folks will probably use, this may be the best way to go. Disclaimer: I have not scrutinized the additives (if any) on these, and they will vary by brand anyway. Odds are high that there are little to no additives since both are already poisonous to drink and the alcohol is what does 100% of the de-icing (water and alcohol are infinetley soluable in each other), so it would not make sense to add anything to them.

Edit: HEET brand from Gold Eagle has two types - methanol and isopropyl. I did not find MSDS, but the claims and description of the Iso-HEET is the same as this brand's MSDS, which is 100% isopropanol. End Edit

Re-edit: HEET is 99% methanol see MSDS and Iso-HEET is 99% isopropanol see MSDS . Dunno what the 1% additive is, but it's probably a corosion inhibitor. Either should be fine to burn IMO. Obviously other brands will vary (unless Gold Eagle is the actual supplier). End Edit.

Now go burn some fuel...

HTH,

Tom