Believe what you want. The burden of proof is never on someone disproving online-derived myths. The doc's response is proof enough.

Ahemm. Lawyer hat on: What, pray tell, are you talking about regarding the 'burden of proof', and what tribunal do you propose shall determine the outcome thereof?

There is no 'burden of proof' unless one agrees upon a tribunal to decide the outcome of disputes. The rules governering those tribunals are calls laws [to oversimplify].

Oh, never mind.

Insomnia can effect strange experiments at the witching hour. I have green eyes. I just put on some very strong, brown shaded sunglasses to test this brown colour theory. I walked outside and couldn't see anything. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> A look at how some migratory peoples travel is illuminating to both blue and brown eyed readers. Day is diurnal, night nocturnal. There are also two interphases that correspond to the sunrise and sunset hours, said terms escaping me at this hour. The old romantic irish term was called 'between the lights', refering to sun and moon when the passage between worlds is open. This also corresponds to general mischief. Many desert people will travel during these periods. The temperatures are niether to hot nor cold, there is sufficient illumination for travel, most of the night or dayshift of predators is off the clock, while many small prey animals use this brief period to migrate,drink or feed. It's a good time to observe the world in general,akin to driving into work early ahead of traffic. People in a survival situation are allready stressed physically and emotionally. Night travel should be done in small increments, letting the body's internal clock reset itself, which mine is about t..........zzzzzzzzzzzzz

And here all this time, I've been thinking that I go to bed cuz I'm tired, and I get up cuz I have to go to the bathroom.

Is that why on really stormy days up at elk camp I tend to sleep in a little longer, because it is darker out at sunrise than normal? I was kinda thinking it was cuz that warm sleeping bag was a darned sight more comfortable than traipsing up to the toidy hole with the butt flap on your longhandles waving in the breeze. I can hold my liquid a lot longer and keep my eyes shut tight when that north wind is a howling down off that ridge. Of course, there's been times when I've held on too long and there could be a tornado outside and I am still gonna have to make a run for it. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Tom,

Thank you, as always, for the tremendously informative posts. I hope to try some of this information this weekend. It already explains why I am so good at recognizing skunks at night. I guess incentive also plays a roll in recognition. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I hope you can post more of your techniques for nocturnal vision and recognition.

Thanks,

John

JShannon,

Sheesh! Getting a little warmer in here... Please carefully re-read what I wrote. Perhaps you're making a big deal out of nothing important. I asked (a little tauntingly at first, but it was meant in good humor) for assistance in finding definitive proof or disproof. I'm NOT pounding my chest about this or insisting that I'm right or you're wrong. I'm really only interested in the truth, if it is known.

Whatever you asked your optomitrist buddy generated no more proof of what you believe than what someone wrote (including me) on line about what they believe, Your post said something about "acuity", which I did not make any statement about in my original post - because I wrote about scotopic vision (comparatively fuzzy, or non-acute by geometry/biology in humans), not photopic vision - either you asked the wrong question or he/she misunderstood your question.

In any event, if the optomitrist cannot cite a study of the subject, his/her opinion is simply an opinion of one person. Has the optometrist extensive field or lab experience with subjects in the field of scotopic vision? If so, did the optomitrist notice any correlation or lack of correlation between eye color and scotopic vision ability? If so, that opinion would carry a lot weight with me, whatever the answer is.

I am not defending an unfounded position - quite the opposite; I wrote that I don't know, although I've always thought it to be true (my "myth" origin is BEFORE the WWW - my 1992 comment) . So I wrote that since I cannot show it is true, if someone feels strongly that it is untrue, please show evidence, because either way I would like to know the truth. Subsequently I wrote that my searches have turned up NOTHING and suggested that a forum member with better search skills than me would have to find "the answer".

I'm not trying to flame you and as far as I'm concerned if this post gets you all worked up, let me apologize in advance. Dead subject as far as I'm concerned unless and until someone finds a believable scientific answer.

Regards.

Tom

PS - I cannot resist asking any longer- my eye color is brown with hazel around the outer edges. Any ability I have to see in low level light is far more a product of decades of practice and learning of techniques than anything else. Would you PM me your eye color just to satisfy my curiosity? TIA.

LoL - "horizontal gaze nystagmus test" ??? Counselor, are you defending or prosecuting DUIs?

I find all the reasons I need to justify drinking by posting innocent comments here in misguided attempts to share experiences and learn new things <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Let me see if I got this correctly: If an intoxicated person stands in the woods after dark staring fixedly at something for 30 seconds or more, horizontal gaze nystagmus will kick in and help resolve a fairly high definition mental image of what he is staring at...?

<mutter> "Where IS that green bottle and do we have any limes...."

<clink!>

John,

I'd rather not, if you don't mind - it all flows out naturally in the woods and is too tedious for me to communicate effectively at a keyboard. "Tell, Show, Do" - 2/3 of that is missing on the screen.

Anyway, how about *I* get to learn some new tricks - there must be many here who are night owls and I bet I could learn some useful new things if THEY would share... I expect that in the next 10 years or so my night vision will decline significantly, so I'll need to learn more or else slow down a lot (that would really suck).

How's the Eagle doing?

Regards,

Tom

Tom,

You gotta quit being so provocative! ROTFLMAO Just do what I do....ER... Don't do what I do, but ....Well just do it right next time. I hope that helps. I do believe that some of our forumites have become a little cranky lately.

No problem re further techniques. I guess some things are better learned in person than by reading. I'll see if I can find somebody who's nocturnal. Oh, you mean me. Well I guess I do qualify. Unfortunately my late surfing hours tend to follow my late research and writing projects. That's when my brains are most fried. Anyway I usually get in a nightly walk, but it tends to be suburban with a lot of light pollution to impede the development of any real night vision. Weekends are my best chance for developing some useful night vision. I'll see what I can do.

My Eagle-to-be? He's stalled. He's been working 7:30 a.m. to 9:30 as a counselor and lifeguard at nearby BSA camp. He loves that, but it hasn't left him a lot of free time. This Saturday morning, after finishing Webelos camp, he went on a boating trip with the other camp staff. Next Friday he starts a week's training in leadership in Oak Badge. In mid-August he'll finish his paperwork, we hope. He actually doesn't seem to have that much left to do, but still he needs to do it himself. I guess in assembling his book, Mom can [i.e., will need to] help.

Best wishes and God bless,

John

Tom, let me share a bit of technology for what I think might be the ultimate low-dazzle, low-power, home built, functional but kludge looking red light. I saw the basics of this guy over at Candelpower, IIRC, but I've modified it since.

You will need:
1x MagLite Solitaire
1x 3mm red LED from RadioShak's assortment pack
1x #4 spring from your local hardware store's spring box
1x small bolt or other metal spacer
1x MN/21 battery (Walmart has a two pack of Duracells for about 80 cents; I've only done this with Duracells, I can't comment on other brands!)
1x pair needle nose pliers or very small hemostats
1x pair wirecutters, diagnal or end

Strip the Solitaire, set the bulb aside for latter. I keep the one in the endcap there, so I can go back to normal lighting with a scrounged AAA.

CAREFULLY bend the leads of the LED to match those of the bulb, then trim the leads to the same length. Examine the bends- if you can visably see any kind of crack or gap or pit in the bends, discard it and try again. If you use that, the lead will break off while you are pulling it out for whatever reason, and then you get to ffigure out how to detail strip a Solitaire to get it out again.

Use gentle pressure to push the LED into the bulb socket. You will feel a little bit of resistance- you are literally forcing a square pegs into a round hole. :P Don't worry, it only effects the soft plastic, not the metal, and when you go back to a normal bulb, it will be held just as tightly as before. I think what is happenening is that it is scoring the circles, but they are still there.

Screw the lens assembly back into place. You will have a small (~1mm) gap, but it won't effect water resistance in the least.

Now we start to really make the product liability guys flinch. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Using the pliers, CAREFULLY take the skin of the MN/21. Inside you will find 8 coin batteries. You will want 3 of them. line up thier polarity and carefully drop them into the light. Put in the spring and the spacer. Replace the endcap.

(For those that are interested, each one of these is a 1.5v, 200mA supply. They are marked as LR932, which when I priced them by themselves, were a lot more expensive.)

If the light doesn't light, the batteries are on in backwards.

You will get a very faint red glow from of three of these cells. It is so faint, in caft, that it is really only useable when your eyes are dark adapted. The LED will last just about forever, and three batteries are good for a long time, at least 6 hours, but I've never sat down and timed it. If you need more illumination, take out the spacer, and drop in a fourth battery, then puth the spacer back in. In this configuration, the LED is still not as bright as a red Photon, but it is usable.

Total cost, including a new Solitaire, is about 12 bucks. As I mentioned, carry a regular bulb (and you can acutally get TWO into that endcap), and all you need to do is scrounge a AAA to go back to normal.

If you buy the assortment pack, you also get green and yellow LEDs. The greens seem to have very delicate leads, I can only bend about half of them into place without breaking them. The yellows are just fine, but when I tried this mod on a minimag, they all smoked on a pair of AAs, so I think this will be pushing the limits of thier performance. Don't be suprised if they die on you. This works fine with generally available 3mm(T1) red LEDs from a number of vendors, I just suggest the RS becuase it is easily available to everyone. I have yet to try blue or white LEDs but it should work.


BTW, while you are in the spring bin, grab some #3s. They are better than the ones that come with the MiniMag. You need to shave down the bulb holder (or discard it, and just carry the bulb in a bit of unshrunk heatshrink), and stick the spring down into the bulbwell. Much harder to loose, and much more possitive pressure.