What's the "no more" post about? This is Sunday morning and I'm not quite awake yet. "PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER." is not a real word. Neither is "Kalifornia," although I believe it is the title of a movie I haven't seen.
If make-believe words are being used, what's the harm? I'm confused. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

-- Craig

This is just a guess, but while they are not real words, everyone understands pretty much what they imply and they have a derogatory connotation. Someone probably was offended, or perhaps the moderator acted before someone complained.

I appreciate the explanation, but it still sounds ridiculous. There's got to be more to it than that. I hope there's more to it than that.

The bit about not allowing discussion makes me highly uncomfortable. Perhaps there's a legal issue here. Maybe he's not allowed to permit any discussion or debate. Let me explain (sort of).

The company I work AT was recently bought out. I work FOR another company in another state. Because of legal issues I admit I don't understand, I was excluded from all company meetings for about a month or so. Talk about feeling like an outsider.

-- Craig

Dunno, as I said - just a guess. I can't imagine any legal issues with the non-words, so I took it to be a problem of civility.

As to your work situation - That would make me paranoid in the extreme. Bleh! <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

The site sports a couple of banners for being kid friendly and family friendly on the main page. I assume that it takes a lot of work to get and to keep it. When we signed up we agreed that we would watch our language. Hence discussing whether we should be allowed to use derogatory words is pointless in some way. IMHO it doesn´t matter whether the words are real or made up.
I took the post as a reminder that doesn´t need to be discussed.

Yeah, I know. Sigh. In the real world I avoid that stuff like the plague. It's not as easy online.

I'm an adult and this isn't grade school. At least I hope it isn't. I was SO glad to get out of grade school and into college.

-- Craig

And now it is gone.

You are correct, sir. I don't know what to say.

-- Craig

I think Chris came down with an attack of the PCs, or maybe he was just trying to impress a gorgeous PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. with his PC machismo. Whatever it was, he appears to have recovered now. Or maybe Doug just got wind of it. We may need to keep an eye of Chris for awhile. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, good sense again prevails in our forum, even if some of us do still live in the PR of Kali.

Hmmm, I wonder how I can fit in some other politically incorrect terms. Vulgarities have always been prohibited, and rightly so. Oh, well, I can't do everything in one post.

John

O.K. I will explain one last time and type r-e-a-l-l-y slow for those who also frequent another rather xenophobic and parochial survival site. I've periodically posted variations on this issue when the ETS culture started getting frayed at the cuffs. I am no longer going to, and the link to forum courtesys should be enough. We have earned an audience worldwide across demographics few websites on this subject have matched. My email is filled with LINK requests and inquiries from people I hope live where they claim to. I had a skinhead in Idaho wanting to sell Hobnailed boots and The Turner Diaries here last week. I declined and he asked "Are you some jew lover?" I replied Doug and I were both jews. The kid got even more upset." No, Your irish, I've read your posts. " I explained my greatgrandmother's background and the concept of matrinlinear descent in Judaism. "No, you are not. Yes, I am. No your not" and it turned into a Monty Python skit until I surrendered. "O.K. I'm not really a jew. So what are you ? I'm a baptised Anglican." I think he did a websearch on Anglican and came back even more upset. "Thats the Church of England! What are you really? Well, I spent 6 months in a Soto Zen monastery and member in a ceremonial clan of a Arizona tribe I attended kindergarden and first grade at, being I'm part indian and it was the only available school. " He called me a "PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. from Kalifornia and I better not never come to God's land in Idaho or the Elk Hunters would get me good and 'berry' me like the wolfes we got released there." That was one of the more fun exchanges. I simply don't have time, what with reading 76+ posts on constitutional debates on random subway searches as it is.

Have you and Doug considered adding additional moderators? (No, I don't mean me. I haven't earned it yet.) There are several very old^H^H^Hwise long time contributors that have the forum's respect and could share the load. This, btw, would be a good reason to further subdivide the forum topics... give each new moderator just one of the new topics.

Chris, we don't say it enough (ever?) but your presence is appreciated just as much as Doug's site. Thanks for the work behind the scenes.... moderating anything is a difficult, thankless job.

I do agree ....indeed....

I read far more than I post, and have been reading here many years.
Thanks Chris for what you do.

All right Chris, don't go cryptic on us. Let's have some details on this other website-- you know, the one that's parochial and xenophobic. It sounds juicy. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

By the way, you may want to be a little more careful about flaming Idaho. In our many trips there, we have encountered many wonderful, intelligent, friendly people, and exactly one interesting nut case, a la Hollywood. I wish my own state were half that benign. It also appears to have about as many diverse ethnics as CA. Prejudices mislead us from many great discoveries.

Keep your sense of humor.

Regards,

John

P.S. I'm doing my best to stay out of all the political/legal chatter. After all, this is ETS, not a political/legal forum. That's getting way too close to work.

Fact is my Hitler Jungen was from Idaho. My farrier, a good Mormon boy used to razz me about wolves and wanting to shoot one. I countered by proffering a sack of Idaho Russets to pay for the trimms so as to avoid cocaine contaminated California money. One year during the Elk season his truck broke down here and he rented a station wagon for the trip home. They went to the spot his family has frequented for 3 generations and parked. They returned to find all the lights smashed out and KALIFORNIKATORS GO HOME scratched in the windshield. One of the perpetrators managed to drop his wallet. Dave retrieved it, opened it and read a high school football teammember's name <img src="/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> It supposedly 'got western' at the local tavern. One thing about Mormon Families, they seem to outnumber gentiles for able hands and fists <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Are you referring to a really old post? I have seen nothing along these lines recently.

Ditto...

He's got a point, Chris. We give we something to do becuase love you, we don't want you getting bored. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Actually, huge thanks to both Doug and Chris. You guys do this in addition to day jobs, I don't know if I could.

Chris has a day job? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I would like to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for this website. I 'hang out' on this website at least six hours a day reading and re-reading posts. I read EVERY post hoping to learn more each day. Equipped to survive helps me survive day to day and keeps me motivated to go on another day.

Have to agree with Groo-
"Chris, we don't say it enough (ever?) but your presence is appreciated just as much as Doug's site. Thanks for the work behind the scenes.... moderating anything is a difficult, thankless job."

Thanks to you and Doug for providing this place, and providing adult supervision when needed.
I have to say, this is the most civil and well behaved group of people I interact with, and really hope it stays that way.
Joey

The useful knowledge contained on ETS brought me here initially. The "flavor" of the forum keeps me coming back on a near-daily basis: the opportunity to exchange information and learn from a diverse group of nice folks from around the world. Chris's gentle touch with the reins helps keep it that way. Thanks Chris!

Well, Chris, please explain. Why, exactly, don't you want these words here?

Talk about an attack of political correctness. The company AT which I work (not FOR, there is a distinction), was recently bought out. Holy cow, you should have seen the proceedings! Everyone had to dress well and not behave like Bluto Blutarsky.

You would have thought Moses was visiting AND bringing the 10 Commandments on the original stone tablets. People who usually wear shorts in the office (we're VERY casual) were wearing shirts and ties. It just about killed them. And me. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

-- Craig

Actually, it pulled a Houdini and vanished. Honest. It was there this past Sunday.

-- Craig

Agreed. Equipped remains the one and only web forum to which I have ever contributed money. I intend to contribute again, after I have finished paying my yearly school taxes and my condominium fire insurance. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

The knowledge I have obtained here is priceless. And the people are nice, too. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

-- Craig

Brandtb,

I know you asked Chris to explain, but I'll take a shot at it.

Those words are judgemental, derogatory, and insulting to some. They have nothing to do with the topic of this forum and only stir things up, promote topic drift, and cause Chris and Doug headaches. No positive purpose is promoted by their use. There are plenty of political smear forums available on the web for people to visit and ETS isn't one of them.

I admit that I have been guilty of using the sheep term on other forums in the past, but I realized a while ago that it only hurt my "causes" instead of helping. Divisive language never helped anybody's cause. People on one side yell "PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER." while those on the other side yell "commie", people are converted to labels, and the real issues never get addressed.

Not everybody on this forum has the same political or idealogical agenda and Doug and Chris both work very hard to make sure that things stay neutral so that the topic, survival preparedness (not survivalism), stays the focus.

Chris, thank you (and thanks to Doug, too)! I've learned a heck of a lot on ETS from you both, as well as from all the other forum participants -- and it's to everyone's credit that our discussions generally are civil (though spirited <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />). Thanks again.

Wow Chris, I could read your stories all day. Really, I find them quite interesting.

I'm grateful that you take on the task of making this forum pretty friendly. This site is one of the few I frequent where I actually feel pretty good about posting things, and learning from others. It would be such a shame if you weren't around.

That pretty well covered it,thankyou. I did have a few emails from guests and hopefully future members who took offense. California is a funny state. We gave the world Nixon and Reagan and get remembered for Jerry Brown. Personally I don't care, but exclusionary slang gets really old. I attended a gunshow before the last elections. Somebody overheard me explaining a collectable piece of Coast Guard equippment ( you know your getting old when your junk goes on the antique roadshow <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />) decided I was a swiftboat veteran and "what did I think about Kerry's war record. " oh, not much, about as much as I think of Bush's. Me, I'm voting for Ralph Nader again." He backed up faster than Bela Lugosi from a mirror and spent the weekend silicone cloth buffing an old springfield sporter like the victim of a compulsive disorder and glaring at me. That night I went to a local environmental meeting and heard the same stale PC speak and upset somebody there wearing cowboy boots. I even got the Unitarians mad at me once. They burned a question mark on my front lawn <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

"I even got the Unitarians mad at me once. They burned a question mark on my front lawn"

LOL <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> An oldie, but goodie.

In fairness, and as a practicing Episcopalian: Why don't Episcopalians like orgies? All the thank-you notes. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

OK, now that THAT's out of the way....... As one who contributed to the <What Do You Mean, "Not A 'Survivalist' Site?"> page, let me weigh in on all this: To answer your question as to why, well, we like our civility here. All we ask that everyone play by the rules. And Chris and Doug work diligently to keep things civil. We stay focused on the subject that brings us to ETS. It's keeps us coming back. We are all different, and I would suppose that we could all find things about each other that we would find annoying, disagreeable, henious, and contributing to the end of the world as we know it.

Chris and I may not agree on Presidential candidates; others may disagree with my take on this issue or that. Here at ETS, that is not our focus. Want ot argue US Foreign Policy? Try 'Equipped to Diplomat'.

I have alerted Chris to halt threads that seem to be going off topic and into the realm of name calling and invective - even when I have agreed with the argument of the name callers. If one can not be civil, you will be asked to leave. When my son is rude and ill-manered to his sister at the dinner table, he is asked to leave until such time as he can play bythe rules.

My. $.02.

.....CLIFF

< I even got the Unitarians mad at me once. They burned a question mark on my front lawn>

However, we Pantheists accept you as a natural manifestation in the order of things.

Thankyou notes? My Vicar never covered this in Sunday School 'sex education for young anglicans.' <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

And yet, even though I've never used the term 'PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER.' in this forum, isn't it a pretty good shorthand for many who go through their daily lives with no thought for the geography, the location of the nearest fire exit, the way food gets to the supermarket?

Paul,

I can't agree with you. You are condemning a whole category of rhetoric we all use in everyday life. Your very post is itself "judgemental [sic], derogatory, and insulting to some" in its condemnation of this kind of speech.

When circumstances warrant it, cynical criticism is appropriate and justified. Such terms as "PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER.," "PRK," and "Kalifornia" are incisive indictments of the syndromes they designate. For instance, I recently used the expression "PRK" to delineate the excessive regulatory behavior of California in foolishly and arbitrarily determining differently the legality of two variations of the M-1 Carbine depending on which stock the gun had. The gun in both forms has been readily available as World War II surplus until California's 2001 when one of the state's many restrictive gun laws took effect. Before 2001, both variation of the gun were equally innocent under the law. After 2000, someone who for any reason failed to register his military surplus folding stock model was felon. Legally he would lose all of his civil right as a felon. That's arbitrary, draconian, and just plain wrong. California's excessive regulatory zeal appears to be unlimited. Do you have some ostensibly benevolent public purpose, the California legislature will pass a law to support it, put it's adversaries out of business, or tax it's users to death. Soft drinks make people fat, just impose an excise tax. No scheme is too crazy for California.

As I understand it, you're saying "PRK" and "Kalifornia" are derogatory? Nonetheless, you describe yourself as being from "Porkopolis!" Porkopolis??? It's too ironic to be scolded by a man from "Porkopolis." Putting "Porkopolis" below your identifying user name is itself judgmental, derogatory and insulting. The term appears to deride the political appropriation of funds to unwarranted projects for the political gain of the politicians involved. Even if it designates a voluntarily chosen municipal nickname, it is demeaning and shows poor self-esteem, and therefore is politically incorrect and unacceptable. Your home description is undermining your argument.

In looking at some of your recent posts (July 2, 2005), I see you use the metaphor "Keystone Cops" to designate TSA officials. I am not going to criticize your rhetoric because you obviously chose that colorful expression to convey your assessment of the TSA's performance. But that language does not fit the standards you have proclaimed.

Colorful, emotional language is integral to our communication. Your own verbal behavior does not fit the standards you have announced. In my opinion, it's the unrealistic standards which are the problem.

Paul, I don't have any animosity towards you, but I'm not going to sit quietly back and take being censured wrongfully. I look forward to hearing from you on this matter. I hope we can discuss it amicably.

John

Chris

I, too, want to thank you for great job you do in gently and in amazingly humorously moderating this forum. It's a pleasant and civil environment.

I also want to thank Doug for making this forum available to us.

John

Until I got to the line about them burning the question mark, I was going to say, how the heck did you [censored] off the UUs? I don't even get them pissed off, and I'm by far the most vocal beliver in "Standard Religion" and right wing in the local UU church

Well Chris, I will jump on the bandwagon as well, "Thank you."
And I will also send a check in to Doug to show my appreciation for a job well done.

Well John, I don't think you really read my thread. As I said, there are plenty of other places where you can discuss issues in the terms you like to use. Chris and Doug have just made it clear that this is not one of them. I am not censoring or censuring you, just trying to take some weight off of Chris' keyboard. I have no power here to censor anyone. Frankly I coud care less what you say or how you say it, but a member asked why the words were verboten.

I totally agree with you about the way our government is passing laws that outlaw objects instead of behavior and how those turn innocent people into criminals. My point was that sticking to the issues usually is more effective than name calling. Once you have labeled your opposition they become less human, and they will label you in return. This rarely produces results.

You know nothing about Porkopolis. It is not derogatory or demeaning and doesn't indicate a low self esteem, but rather a sense of humor. I live in Cincinnati, a town that is historically known for trade in animals meant for human consumption. The downtown area used to be full of stockyards and one of the city's nicknames was and is Porkopolis. We have the Flying Pig Marathon every year. While other cities put up fiberglass bulls, horses, bears, etc. my city put decorated fiberglass pigs all over the city. I suppose I could have put "The River City" or "The Queen City" for a location, but there are other cities that have those nicknames too. As far as I know there is no other city known as Porkopolis. I like it. It is funny (too me anyway). BTW I never scolded you or anyone else.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to search for my old posts. I may have used the term Keystone Cops. Maybe somebody should have pointed out that it was inappropriate. I'm human. I also admitted to freely using the PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. term, but that doesn't make it right.

In the future I'll let Chris K. answer his own questions I guess.

There have been some thoughtful posts on this topic -- on both sides of the fence. But, when it's all said and done, can't lose sight of the fact that this forum is Chris/Doug's sandbox. As such, IMO, when we come to "play," we've implied a willingness to abide by their rules, as they interpret them.

Yeah, it is, but you know how it goes when you've got a few thin skinned creatures in the mix.