I own a Maxpedition Condor backpack.
I am very pleased with its toughn,ess and durability, so far (1 year...)

My question, maybe more oriented to (ex-) military members of this forum :
this kind of backpack seems designed to be more of a "shoulder pack" than a "waist pack".
I mean, if heavily loaded, all the weight has to be carried on the shoulders, as the pack is way to short to rest on the hips/waist.
So, I guess it is design to be used (if heavily loaded) in conjunction with a waist pack, which it can then sit on.

Am I right ?

I don't seem to have a lot of success, with my question.

I guess/hope it's not a military secret ("how to use a backpack - for your eyes only").

So, maybe, my question is not correctly formulated..
Let's try this way : are those backpacks (Maxpedition Condors) specifically designed to be used in conjonction with another pack ( like Devildog or Proteus Versipack), so it can "sit" on it ???

Or ... I really need some lessons :"how to use a backpack - 101" !!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Alain,

I have both the Condor and the Proteus. When used in conjunction with eash other, the Condor rests comfortably atop the Proteus...

M

Thanks for confirming my fears...
... now I will "have to" buy a proteus ..... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

not for current EDC, but for building another kit, when the Condor will no longer be used for day to day work.
Or as an add-on, for overnight stays; when working faraway from Paris...

I will have to think about it some more..... <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Alain, it almost sounds like you are overloading the poor bag. And your poor back. Try putting the heavier stuff higher, and pull it in tight. As I understand it, you are using a fairly large, frameless pack, basically in the class of a light camper's bag or a military three-day bag. That is how I load my packs of that class, and I snug them up high and tight to my back, and use the sternum strap, so I'm putting some of the weight on my chest, and thus my abs.

That said, if you feel the need, add the waist bag- more room for good stuff! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I might also suggest talking to a doctor, or better, a chiropractor if the bag is causing you pain. He might have some pearls of learned wisdom to share about how YOU should load YOUR pack. After he gets done lecturing you.

I've been on the business end of that lecture before.

Yeah, you might be right...


For heavy loads, I seem to do the opposite of what you do : I lower the load, down to my hips.

When hiking, I use another backpack , capacity 35liters (I'm in the market for another one, slightly bigger - in the 45 liters range), which was quite heavily loaded.
But I am looking at reducing the weight (even if am looking at a more voluminous pack)
And as I explained before, that backpack has a good, large and confortable waistbelt which is mainly sitting on my hips, so my back is not supporting the load.

Now, for EDC, on everyday work, I carry my Maxpedition Condor, loaded with a portable computer and various papers/doc and tools. Not really light, but not too heavy (that pack is rather on the small size side).
And I don't have to walk long distances with it : from my car, or Paris subway, or train to my customers offices.
A few times, I tried to use it as you describe.
Putting it higher and closing the "waist" strap around my chest : it's somewhat better, but then it hinder my respiration a bit .... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />


ah ... and another thing I'm working on : reducing the weight of ... the bearer.... lost more than 10kg ... I'm halfway... still about 12 or 13kg to loose...
that should also be good for my back ! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I carry a full size laptop every day as you do. I purchased a second battery so I can keep one at work and one at home. This reduces the weight quite a bit. Same with power supply.

-john


Edit: I don't think these types of packs are designed to provide proper support with heavy loads.

It's a solution I can't use : I move every day from one office to another, or to different customers sites... So I have to have everything with me...


That's my guess, at least if they are not used with something like a proteus for support.
+ anyway they are not that big : you could not put a whole wardrobe inside... OTOH, you could put enough ammo, to make it really heavy !!

Ironsraven may have a good point : what I thought at first was a waist strap, is more of a sternum strap. And for moderate load, high up, pulled thight, it's quite easier to bear..
OTOH, I'm not in a great shape... and what I consider heavy, others may find it quite light ... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have a Condor on order, but I don't have one right now. Can you fold the pack in half? If it isn't rigid, it isn't built for large weight. It needs to be rigid in order to transfer the weight.

-john

With my larger packs, I lower it onto my hips. But if the pack is shorter than my spine, I find it is more comfortable to have it high, with a higher center of gravity.

Edit: A true sternum strap goes from shoulderstap to shoulder strap. It might be that you have my problem *blushes* a lot of waist belts don't go around my middle so well any more. If that isn't the problem, and the belt goes around your abdomen, so long as it is below your ribs and diaphram, and isn't so tight you can't move things about in your belly, wear it snug to your abs.

The Kifaru EMR is what you need...
Expensive, but made in the USA and you will not find any better!
Of course 123 liters is a BIT bigger than the 45 liters you were looking for, but then you will never have to upgrade! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Of course, if 45 liters is all you want, check out the Kifaru Zulu.
Though I would go to at least the Kifaru Pointman.
It looks a LOT more comfortable...
And it is only 49 liters... A little bigger but look at the relative size chart on THIS page... It looks like it puts the weight on your hips to a MUCH greater extent than the Zulu does...
And, if you hunt, they have a GREAT system to carry your gun!
If you do not like the military look, they have a more civilian looking line... Just go to 'hunting home' at the top left of the page.

AFAIK, for load handling, the pack should have a rigid support which connects to the waist belt. The waist belt should sit on (and be secured around) your hips and it is the waist belt that should transfer the weight from the pack to you. It should go: #1 pack transfers load to pack frame, #2 frame transfer load to hip belt, #3 hip belt transfers weight to your hips.

If you don't have such a support, or such a hip belt, you probably want to stick with lighter loads, lest your spine does the lifting instead of your legs...

Check the McHale pack 'Critical Mass' hip belt for an example of how a good hip belt can transfer the load to your hips. You can see how that critter just sets the load right on your hips...

-john

no, the pack is not rigid (no internal frame or posts).

...

I guess that's the understatement of the day...no... of the year ! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Those packs look great ; the pointman seems to be the right size.
And I just love the modularity of the system...

Too bad I can't find them here...

yep... that looks like the Rolls Royce of backpack's hip belts.
Too bad that shop is in Seattle... a long way from here...

All of you : thanks for your answers/comments and great links.

I had not realised, before ordering my Condor, how it would ride so high on my back.
For my current EDC usage (not really heavy loads, no long hours of walk), it's OK and the pack is really tough... which is important for every day usage...
No regret.

As explained in this thread, I was looking for another backpack, between 40 and 50 liters.
Some links I received today make me drool over interesting packs (that custom shop in Seattle : aaahhhh ...... <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> )

But today, I bought one : I had spend sometime selecting a few packs from online catalogues. And I went to a shop to actually handle the products. And to get some explanations.
But I could not find THE back, with all the features I wanted : the waist belt from this one, the frame from that one, the shape and size from another one, etc.... Sadly (IMHO...), some features exist only on big packs (well above my use), ie adjustable back (you choose the "heighth" at which the pack connects to the shoulder strap system ....).
Plus, "civilian" packs lack all the modularity found on military packs (i.e. PALs webbing allowing to add/remove additional pouches etc...)

I finally choose a Millet (against a Lafuma and a Deuter) backpack : model "Odyssee 45" , which is somewhat of a compromise.
It should be OK with moderate loads (well... I will see...)
Anyway, if I want more volume, I don't want a heavier load ; on the contray, if I can.. (reading all those web pages about light backpacking ... some good ideas, without having to go to the extreme lightness...)


Thanks again.