Now, by god, there is concept you don't hear every day: PUBLIC TRUST. What ever happened to that? Perhaps the same thing as public civility?

My, but change is hard. And sometimes rather sad.

That's right up there with 'public conscience'

Yes, we would have, had we been given a chance, because we would not have made the folks with the bomb hate us.

Actually, had the abuse not occured then there would be no attention paid. What, you want us to focus on those portions of the bill of rights not subject to abuse?

But, here's a test: name one.

What on earth are you talking about? Remeber 'fruit of the poisonous tree' doctrine that made so many so angry?

While we're all concerned about the civil liberties aspect of this, there's the practical question that Craig's original post poses: What, if anything ,are you going to do about it?

I don't look forward to the prospect of walking 30 miles home. With that in mind, I've removed the small fixed blade I normally carry in my pack. I still have a pocket folder, and a Leatherman tool (neither in the pack).

Personally I don't care. And I tell you why... I saw what was left of people after 9/11 and if that stupid back pack search will prevent somebody from detonating a pipe bomb on the tracks than I'm all for it. I'm on the brain detail in NYC and I don't feel like pulling bodies from the tracks. I worked few suicides in the tunnels and it wasn't a nice experience. If you tell me that your freedom is more important I will be more than happy to give you rubber gloves, flashlight and send you down trying to match somebody’s arm, to a torso and than account for ten fingers that maybe got mixed up or got partially eaten by rats. A bum with burning shopping cart disabled NYC Subway system for a day and closed part of the line for next 2 years. Imagine what a well placed bomb can do.

Now I also do understand that such search leaves a lot of room for abuse (aka TSA). Also even a silly thing like somebody with a dime bag in his pocket becomes a problem. But from another point of view crime rate will go down. Not everyone is privileged enough to carry a badge that gives you some immunity. But what are you carrying in your backpack that you don’t want to disclose? Terrorists are not going to blow up a 7 am bus in Wisconsin but 7 am bus in Times Sq. Also by buying MTA token for a ride you are technically on their ground therefore you agree to their rules. Again I will repeat that searches leave a lot of room for abuse and on Oprah commercials will run about lawyers being more than happy to handle “if you've been searchw rongfully you have a right to compensation”. Maybe it’s time to do something for the greater good and suffer.

But NYC Transit System is a vulnerable point. It is a miracle that nobody did anything yet.

The thing is that when you face Mrs. Smith to tell her that her boy is dead because somebody’s personal freedom was more important that her son’s life don’t expect her to understand. I learned to value a human life and I do believe that in order to do the right thing you don’t have to save thousands. It all starts with one life. If that search finds one bomb, one handgun that’s at least one life saved and that’s good enough to me.

I've tried to keep my mouth shut, becuase this isn't really the place, but since our legal eagles are mentioning it.....

Am I the only one who feels like the bill of rights was burned by the Kelo ruling? *shivers* Property siezed becuase it can be put to "better use" from a tax point of view. Random searches at mass transit. HAVING to carry ID.

I'm waiting for us all of us here to be declared undesirable subversives, and sent to a reeducation camp.

My mother used to be a teacher. Part of why she got out is becuase school searches. Cops show up, and the doors are LOCKED, with a cop watching. No one goes in or out. Dog sniffs everyone, ever pack is searched.

Keep in mind, this is in rural Vermont. Other, more modern schools have security cameras everywhere, and armed cops in the halls. The halls have doors every so often, which can be locked using remotely controlled electromagnets in the CLOSED possition, while said cops go through in teams, frisking every student there. I know that set up was challanged in court, but the fact that we are treating students like prisoners....

Becoming a police state?

Or maybe the second ammendment? The ACLU is not a friend of the NRA, and that is very, vey sad. Enough legal firepower there to maybe break the Patriot Act if they were set out to make a full out attack.

That said, I give money to both.

Now there's a thought: be nice to these "folks", give them whatever it is they want, and maybe they will leave us alone.

Newsflash--unless you subscribe to their rather narrow views regarding religion, particularly the role of women in society, then they are going to hate you. If that's the price to be left alone then I'll take their hate any day.