Andy,<br><br>Sheesh! It's gonna take me a week to get the gear straightened out <grin>...<br><br>The fast twist used to stabilize the fairly long 69gr boattail bullet is not too conducive to accuracy with the 55gr formerly used. The 69gr bullet came into being for the benefit of the light machine gun formerly called the Squad Automatic Weapon (SAW) - to give it (SAW) better effective range and terminal effects at range against body armor and thin-skinned vehicles. The A2 came about partially in order to better utilize the 69gr bullet... it's all about logistics. <br><br>Which is why just prior to WWII, Gen MacArthur nixed the ".276 Pederson" cartridge and kept the 30-06 - not a good time to switch calibers with large scale war looming. So we got the M1 Garand in 30-06 (it was tested in 276) and later, a slightly smaller equivalent, the 7.62mm aka 308 Win (technically not exactly the same, but close enuff for me) in the M14. They could have actually acomplished the same thing with the 300 Savage by then - I have no idea why the 7.62 was designed instead of using the 300 Savage. Both are capable of equaling the 150gr M2 30-06 load (and neither are as capable with heavier bullets, but that's another logistical story). Only VERY recently has there come a 308 bullet that stays supersonic to 1,000 yards fired from a gas operated gun at acceptable pressures.<br><br>I used an M14 enough to really like it - had one in my room for a few years. I like my Garands better for absolutely no good reason - I just do (and I SHOULD have them rebarreled to 308... oh, well). Since I HOPE to never hear or fire shots in anger again personally... at least, not as part of a military force - I can lug around whatever I like.<br><br>In a big war, there is strategic value to wounding rather than killing - assuming that your opponent is going to care for his wounded. If you are down at the scary place in any size war, all you want to do is keep the other soldier from doing whatever it is he is doing RIGHT NOW - the desired outcome is quite different when it's in your face. "Let's see, if I just wing him, I'll further the national objectives..." Not! LoL<br><br>I think that's the sort of effect I would prefer in a survival rifle - be it for stopping dangerous critters or harvesting meat. But when one tosses in the weight and bulk of large caliber ammo and the weapons that use it... there is a compromise to be made somewhere. A central - south American compromise would be lighter than a boreal Americas compromise which (may be) is lighter than an African or Asian compromise...<br><br>I understand and respect the criteria Col Cooper uses for his "Scout Rifle" concept - it practically dictates a 308 or first cousin 7mm-08. In my EXPERIENCE (not as extensive as his), the 308 does not have the penetetration with conventional off-the-shelf ammo to serve as well in a pinch on really big critters. I don't think he claims that it does; just that maybe my ideas run in a little different direction than his. BTW, notice that the Steyr Scout has the conventional 308 twist of 1-12" - I am mildly surprised that it does not have a 1-10" to better allow somewhat heavier bullets.<br><br>The 260 Remington is ALMOST interesting for this "universal survival rifle" application (we have one in a Rem M7). But... geometry makes it tough to use the full powder capacity of the case AND keep the overall length short enough to fit in a so-called "short action" when using bullets of 129gr and heavier, which is where the 6.5mms just start to get really interesting. Drove me nuts loading for that for potential use on elk... it can be done with 140 gr bullets of appropriate construction, but the bullet is pretty far into the case and that is less conducive for accuracy.<br><br>Obvoiusly, I am unconcerned about ammo commonality at this point in history and my life... heck, I haven't even owned a 308 for several years now. What I would like to tinker with is a short cartridge in 6.5mm that is very accurate with a 140 gr pill at ~2,700 - 2,900 fps and will also accurately shoot 160 gr round nose - from a short action. It's probably already been done, but the new short magnum cases - shortened up a bit - are tempting. I suspect that a slightly shortened 284 Winchester case might do the trick as well or even better, and someone has probably already done that.<br><br>For now I'll stick with my battered M77 30-06 because it gets the job done everytime. Funny how that works out, isn't it?<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom<br><br>