I did it again.... My PSK has outgrown its container. However, this time I must put my foot down and refuse to get yet another larger PSK container. The PSK is already much bigger than I would prefer in its current container (about twice the size of an altoids tin) and now that I am outgrowing this container also, it is time to reevaluate my priorities. Obviously this kit was made with a stay longer than 3 days in mind. It was designed to be more like a 7 day kit and perhaps even for supporting two people rather than just one.

I need help deciding what to remove from this kit. Your opinions are greatly appreciated.




Please Note: The picture of the BM310 Pocket Knife and the BCB Commando Wire Saw are not to scale. They are part of the kit but simply were not photographed with the kit.


----------------
Signalling Group
----------------

Modified REI Featherweight Mirror
ACR Whistle

-----------------------
Emergency Devices Group
-----------------------

Benchmade 310 Knife
Scalpel
BCB Wire Saw
True Nord Compass
Photon II LED Light
Fishing Bobber LED Light
Mini Bic Lighter
Large Ferrocerium Rod (From Swedish Firesteel)
Striker (From Swedish Firesteel
Small Ferrocerium Rod (From Doans MFS)
10 Tinderquik Tabs
12 REI Windproof Waterproof oversized Matches w/ Striker
15' 0.020 Stainless Steel Wire
DMT Diamond Hone
Fishing Kit
-- 30' Fishing Line 20# Test
-- 45' Black Thread #69 10# Test
-- Two Large Fish/Gaff Hooks
-- 5 Small Fishing Bait Hooks
-- 1 Medium Fish/Trap hook
-- 5 Small Split Shot
-- 5 Dehydrated Baits
-- 1 Fishing spoon
-- 1 Fishing Rig (Prerigged Swivel, Line, Small Bait, Weight)

-------------
Medical Group
-------------

2 Large Bandaids
2 Regular Bandaids
4 Butterfly Suture Strips
2 Motrin
2 Tylenol
2 Bayer
2 Imodium
Claritin
2 Triple Antibiotic Ointment Packets
Two Antibacterial Gel Packets
1 Vial OR Blood Clot Powder
4 Alcohol Swabs
Burn Oinment Packet
3 Sting Relief Pads (also serve as anticeptic)

--------------------
Water and Food Group
--------------------

12 Katadyn MP-1 Tabs
2 Ziplock Freezer Bags
Trojan Condom
Medium Reynolds Oven Bag

-----------------------------------
Miscellaneous / Multi-Purpose Group
-----------------------------------

6' x 2" Duct Tape
100' 80# Spiderwire
100' Dental Floss ~20# Test
Large Heavy Duty Needle
6 Large Safety Pins

-------------
Kit Container
-------------

LowPro Belt Case

I would drop the fishing kit, you can do without food, but water is more important

You could, perhaps, do without one of the two ferrocium rods. Also - you seem to have alot of water containers for a PSK, maybe go with just the oven bag, or the oven bag and one ziplock.

Brian, Think about these ideas.
Put the mini bic in your pockt. Change the fishing line to thinner spiderwire. Scrap all the Band-Aids and get 2 large Band-Aids with antiseptic on them. You can use larger Band-Aids on smaller cuts if needed. Toss the oven bag and the condom, use the zip--locks for water. Keep the condom if you think you might get "lucky". Why 2 Ferrocerium rods? Scrap the Small Ferrocerium Rod (From Doans MFS) you can cut back to 8 or even 6 tinder quicks if you want. Same with the REI matches. You can use the fishing line (maybe not perfect) in place of the black thread. The fishing prerig is redundant, with the line, hooks, weights and bait you already list.. Cut the dental floss down from 100 feet, same with the spider wire. Any of these might reduce the size of your kit, and not lower the capabilities of your kit too much. Then again, I could be talking out my tail feathers.

One ziplock, and the oven bag for water. Ziplocks are awfully useful, but if you need to scrap the one to make room, do it.

The smaller of the ferrorods stays, the big one goes to a new kit.

2 stingeeze. Loose the blood clotter.

Smaller knife and compass. Take the handles off the saw.

One gaff hook. Switch to 40' of 40# spyderwire- strong enough for most purposes, unless you are catching big fish- you can't hang onto the stuff under tnesion, it will take yoru rinfgers right off.

Smaller thing of floss.

How about ditching the two ferro rods and the striker and replacing with one spark-lite?

And maybe ditch the steel snare wire? And most of the fishing gear could probably go -- you could homebrew something with the safety pins and fishing line.

How about removing one Ziploc bag and replacing it with a rolled Gerber bag?

Good luck on thinning the kit!

Don't listen to those guys -- there is no such thing as too much line, and where we come from, no such thing as too many ways to carry water. However, I would substitute a 1 L Platypus bag or bag like this: http://www.epcamps.com/Water_Bag.html. I have had bad luck with the 'welded' edges of plastic bags.

I have used verterinary grade blood stop in the past; I ran out and an 8 oz. container is the smallest I can find.

I would upgrade the mirror, and put in more needles. I would add some sort of mini-plier even if it is just a hemostat, 'cause with cold wet hands you can't hold on to small things worth a damn.

To make room, I would give up the spoon and the bait.

I have a kit made up in a digital camera bag about the size of yours. It started out being made up of spare gear, but upgraded it leave it hidden in my truck. And I mean hidden, unfortunately.

This is mine:

Can you find a way to integrate some para cord into the overall package? Would it do you much goog to unpackage the drugs and consolidate into one vial?

Everyone,

Thanks everyone! I am getting some great ideas! Keep em coming!

Ranjack,

The Ecamps bag looks promising. I would certainly take one very strong, reliable water container that I have complete confidence in over four water containers that I don't have complete confidence in and I have had only one of several Platypus containers leak on me (and that was easily fixed with my lighter). My problem is that with the MP-1 tabs as my only means of water purification (and Iodine is not an option for medical reasons), having a 1 liter (or larger) water container make things much simpler and prevents me from wasting half of a water pruification tablet. Unfortunately I don't think I could cram a 1 liter Platypus in to my LowPro belt pouch even if I threw out the rest of the kit all together to make room. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That's why the Ecamps bag shows promise. What are your experiences with it. How do you rank its durability as compared to a Platypus and Ziplock freezer bag? Somewhere in between the two perhaps?

Your from Texas..I understand that you think you are going to catch a big fish...but I would probably trade in that spinner that is larger than the Photon for a much smaller rig..Perch are easier to catch in the shallows and uses less line and lighter line...just my opinion. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I agree with the others that you have a lot of bandaids for a last-ditch kit. Unless you frequently raid your kit for every-day use items I would cut back or eliminate them altogether (heresy I know. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />). As far as fishing gear goes, you would know best what to carry for your environment and habitat. Are you near, or have occasion to travel near, the coast?

I would recommend some boullion, obviously not for cold weather but for extreme sweating and the resulting salt loss (of course assuming sufficient water.)

The SAS compass is smaller than the Tru-Nord. Whether or not it's worth paying 3X is up to you.

Regards, Vince

I forgot to add, where is your 550 cord? Rolling a Plyt. bag is easy. Should fit easily in your kit with the other stuff removed.

Slightly off-topic relative to original post, but randjack raises a good point:

Digital camera bags make, IMO, great kit carriers. They come in a wide variety of configurations and sizes, are reasonably well constructed, often have loops for belt-carry, and are inexpensive if bought at a discount store, e.g. Walmart, Target.

I feel your pain. Normally this would requirea 60 day stay at an inpatient facilty that deals with 12 step programs. Fortuneatly, you may find an easier way out here, your'e not that far gone.

Dave

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Too true!

A great point. If I keep a fishing kit I should think more of panfish rather than larger fish like bass and catfish. Although all of the above are plentiful in my neck of the woods panfish are the most plentiful in the widest variety or areas and also the easiest to catch.

I agree. The LowPro that I show in the picture of my kit is actually sold as a camera case. I bought it for $8 at Frys Electronics.

Wow I'd have to remove alot in order to get 550 cord in there. As far as rolling 1 liter Plat... I have a couple and I cant get them anywhere even close to being small enough to fit in this kit.

I have an SAS compass also. I keep it in my micro kit . The difference in quality between the SAS and the True Nord is quite signifigant. I really love the this True Nord compass. I is as smooth and quick to point as my Suunto Ranger.

I think you (and the others that mentioned it) may be on to something with my excessive amount of first aid supplies. Bandaids are probably not needed. Small cuts can probably be left uncovered and larger ones could be protected with duct tape if needed (is that correct is there a problem putting duct tape on an open wound?).

Why "...and put in more needles"?

I keep two larger needles in my kit, and I think THAT'S redundant. What do you use yours for?

Sue

You wouldn't want to be needlessly needle-less, now would you? <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> They're small, and something that is very hard to fabricate in the wild.

Brian,

You are brave to let this bunch look at your PSK. You have some good stuff! I too like to go to REI for my PSK collection. Let me get my Kevlar on and then I’ll add my $0.02 worth.

The rule of 3s: 3 minutes – die of lack of oxygen to the brain, 3 hours - die of hypothermia, 3 days – die of dehydration, 3 weeks - die of starvation. The idea is to meet your needs to stay alive and then do everything you can to signal so you will be rescued. Unless this is an EOWAWKI bug out kit?

My categories are: fire, first aid, food, navigation, shelter, signal, water, and weapons/tools.

Fire: dump the matches. A small lighter, ferro rod, and cotton balls are all you need.

First aid:
The most common injuries are cuts, scrapes, burns, and slivers.
REI burn gel (great stuff! I’ve used it on my boys), Band-Aids and triple antibiotic (good stuff!). Check out REIs small tweezers. The Imodium could save your life from becoming dehydrated. I would pick Benadril for the anti-histamine effect. I like Motrin for its anti-inflammatory effect. A packet of Purell can be a good thing.

Food:
Even a small fishing kit is overkill. A snack bar might be better.

Navigation:
Nice compass!

Shelter:
I see some cord. A Space Blanket or a folded up 55-gallon trash bag would be good. You can use the cord to tie some branches together to start some kind of shelter.

Signal:
You need a whistle, signal mirror, and a blinking light. I have a cut down REI Featherweight Mirror that I keep in my wallet. You need the Ritter PSP signal mirror or a real glass signal mirror. You might consider a Photon Freedom that will blink SOS. Also the Pretzl Zipka is a great LED light that blinks. A little roll of orange flagging tape would be good.

Water:
The Katadyn MP-1 tablets are perfect. The quart Ziploc bags are also perfect for collecting and treating the water. I hope you have a water bottle or something.

Weapons/Tools:
Great Benchmade knife! Why not throw a SAK Farmer in your pocket. It has a great saw and awl. REI duct tape – great stuff! Needle and dental floss – good. Safety pins – quick and easy repairs! A knife sharpener is a must!

I suspect your main concerns are going to be: treat any injuries, get warm and dry, and stay hydrated. Then you are going to want to create some kind of signals to get rescued.

Brian,

Ditch the bandaids and the antibiotic ointment. Replace them with antibiotic treated bandaids. IMHO, there's no replacement for proper wound care.

You list three types of pain meds. Are all three really necessary? I generally carry Tylenol as its easier on the stomach and theres no worry of problems with giving it to children or someone who's asprin allergic.

I'd also increase the amount of Immodium carried. Add another packet in case you need a full course of treatment.

Many will downplay the need for fishing gear. I encourage carrying line and small hooks - anything else you need can be easily improvised. Take a peek here ... http://www.knifeforums.com/ubbthreads/sh...amp;amp;fpart=1

M

You and Randjack have both mentioned upgrading the signal mirror. I think someone else mentioned it too... I'll have to go back through all the replies to check. I do own one of these mirrors and I keep it in a larger kit. I have considered it for this kit but it actually takes up even more room than the current mirror. Of course if it is truely justified then I can certainly remove other less neccessary stuff to make room for it. I guess this is somthing I need to consider carefully. Maybe I will get some more opinions on this. I also have what might be a different opinion than most people regarding the usefullness of mirrors for signalling, but that is a topic for another thread. Thanks for your input. You (and everyone that has replied) has given me a lot to think about.

Thanks for taking a look at the thread Mike. I was really hoping to get some input from you on this. Here's my thinking on the Tylenol, Motrin and Aspirin. I don't consider any of them primarily for their pain numbing qualities. The primary reason I carry the Tylenol and Motrin is to be able to reduce a fever. The primary reason I carry the Aspirin is in case someone is having a heart attack. Of course that's not to say that I haven't also considered the anti inflamitory abilities of the Motrin and the pain killing abilities of all three. You're probably right about the Imodium too. Of course now I have to remove even more stuff to make room for that. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[body armor and flame suit]
Ever think of getting a larger pouch, 2nd belt pouch or even adding a nite-ize pockets to carry a few things? Small is great, but going too small may hurt you in the long run.

My kits are a bit larger than most might like, but it did not take me long to get used to them. I use both front pockets and both back pockets to carry parts of my kit. Splitting the kit into several parts makes it easier to carry.

Modified AMK kit left rear (looks like a large wallet in the pocket). Large first aid items (4x4's, telfa pads, tape strips, vacuum sealed), water carry bags, hair comb and bandannas in right rear. Lighter (yea, it?s a BIC), pouch of meds, a few bans-aids, etc. (modified pocket pack), right front. Left front is Vic OH trekker (wish it had a pocket clip ? may move to small belt sheath), led light on keys, personal items and swiss card money clip with 1 credit card, and folding money. A Leatherman belt holster with Mini-mag, Leatherman Wave, small vaughan flat pry bar (modified), 4" flat and phillips blade from small multi screwdriver, F. rod (all fits tight but fits) on my belt. Credit cards and divers license in a witz neck wallet, asprin vial on the cord. I don?t carry a regular wallet..

When wearing a suit or sport coat, I dump the items from the belt holster into deep inside pockets. Same for rear pockets if needed. Dress shoes are lace up leather walkers (feet don?t fail me now).

Far more than a Altoids tin, but I'm comfortable with what I carry, and that is the most important part. It seemed a bit bulky at first, but I adjusted a few things and got used to it.

Other items go in a Dillon soft briefcase or fanny pack as the situation warrents. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
[/body armor and flame suit]

Brian,

That is what I was calling a Ritter PSP signal mirror. I have two. They are every bit as good as the glass ones. The only weakness is that they scratch easier than the glass ones. My understanding is the signal mirror is the best piece of equipment you can have to increase your chances of being found. The Ritter mirror is the thinnest and lightest one I have seen that works. I have tried several of the other plastic mirrors and they do not work nearly as well. Remember that you will only have about 30 seconds to deploy your signal mirror when you spot an aircraft. Have it on a thin cord around your neck tucked under your shirt. Practice using the mirror. It is possible to make it shine 360 degrees even with a low sun, but you have to practice. Hold it with one hand that is on the side away from the sun.


You can take what SgtMike88Ret says to the bank. In the fishing link you will see a picture of the SAK Farmer. It is small, handy, and very useful! I prefer to carry a LeatherMan Charge Ti. I use the pocket clip. I also have a Buck Alpha CrossLock that I am fond of. It too has a good saw.



I keep a Suunto Comet on me all the time. I have a thin black cord that is attached to a belt loop using a Cow Hitch. The compass is then tucked in the watch pocket of my jeans. I can’t loose it and it is always handy.

When I go out in the woods I do carry more than just this PSK. I have a pretty regimented set of EDC for trips that take my beyond the paved concrete world (even if just for day hikes) and this kit is actually just one part of that "wilderness EDC" however, I am reluctant to mention what else I carry because when people critique my kit (for the purpose of helping me make it the highest quality and as small as possible) I want them to look at it as if it's all I have since I want it to be an competant collection of gear all by itself.

Brian,

How about replacing the knife sharpener with the DMT credit card size. I have the red one in my PSK and it works good.

Brian: epcamps bags, I am glad to say, are stouter than either one. They also carry the dental FAK somebody asked about a while back, good brass wire, and SpeedHook snare/fishing devices, not to mention the the teflon sealed vials for those who still use Portable Aqua.

Brian, will your body handle bleach purification? I think I'm going to look into one of those MSR electric gadgets -- has anybody tried one?

See also: www.survivalandoutdoorsafety.com for 52" x 80" and 60 gallon plastice bags, flat packs of orange gaffer's tape, and a really good firesteel.

Hell, Brian, I use duct tape and superglue, sometimes, instead of bandaids. I think what they are good for is to keep from bleeding all over the rest of your gear. Steri Strips take up no room at all, and if you lay a piece of telfa or other nonstick pad over the wound and seal it up with duct tape, you've done about as well as you can do. The new membrane/barrier stuff is great too.

Benton is exactly right. Besides, they are easy to lose, easy to break, but easy to carry. apart from sewing, I use them for first aid, cleaning in tiny crevices in precision gear, compass in an emergency, making tiny holes in metal or plastic, replacement watch band pins . . . .

Yup, one of those mirror, or the www.survivalandoutdoorsafety.com site carries mil-spec glass mirrors, which I prefer.

For my own situation I don't rate a mirror as especially important. One reason is that it needs sun. Right now I look out of the window at noon in summer and I have no sun. Another reason is that I live and work in an urban setting, so there will usually be someone within hearing range of a good whistle.

So a mirror is something I am willing to downgrade. My EDC doesn't include one at all. My small kits include a piece of mirror card cut to fit the kit. It's actually made of plastic, not card, about a 1/3rd the thickness of a proper signal mirror and a huge improvement over a polished tin lid. No aiming spot, though. If you are looking to save space it is something to consider. I'm not recommending it as such because I don't know how important a mirror is to your situation.

I'm not so sure how important a mirror is to my situation either. Still working that one out. Signal mirror flashes seem to be ignored by all but trained SAR who are looking for you, and sometimes by them as well. Seems that signal smokes gets more attention simply because people are so paranoid about forest fires. These are not hard fast beliefs but rather things I consider to have some potential accuracy. I read alot of accounts of aircraft ignoring signal mirrors but reporting signs of fire.

Personally, I'd keep a mirror. We tested mirror signaling during Practice What You Preach III on Terrill Hoffman's mountain in NC. The reflection from a proper mirror and even an unskilled user is pretty hard to ignore, even by an unskilled observer. I have a lot of confidence in their ability to attract attention and the one in Doug's kit is a fine piece of gear...

M

Brian,

My pleasure. Your kit is well thought out and very well stocked - so well so that it's hard to criticize.

I see now what you're thinking with the different OTC pain meds and I like where you're going with them.

My only other thoughts to add would be in reference to your fire starting gear. You may be able to save some space by eliminating the matches and a ferro rod. I think that the BIC or a SparkLight for their one hand capability, one decently sized ferro rod, and an ample supply of reliable tinder is a pretty good selection for a minikit...

M

Wasn't someone in the helicopter in the lost volcano hiker situation in Hawaii attracted by a flashing camera mirror?
Rescue made.
I'd keep/get a mirror. It's also good for face cuts and checking the rear areas of the bosy for ticks. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It wasn't really a question of whether or not to carry a mirror. It was question of which mirror to carry. If the advantages of the ETS-PSP/Rescue Flash Mirror over the REI Featherweight Mirror justifies its significantly added bulk in the kit.

Brian,

Another bummer of the REI featherweight mirror is that it is not really flat and cannot reflect the light as good as the Ritter PSP mirror. The Ritter PSP mirror could save your butt. I’d put the REI mirror in your wallet and put a Ritter PSP mirror in your PSK. If you swap the DMT hone for the credit card size you should be at the same volume you are now.

Brian,

Thanks for the post and the picture. Would you let me know where to find individual packets of immodium and sting relief? I struck out at my local drug stores. Thanks.

Michael

Both of these retailers sell individual supplies:

http://beprepared.com/Default.asp?

http://www.minimus.biz/

Believe it or not the best place for me to find them locally is in convenience stores and gas stations. But if you're looking for a lot of them then order them on the Net from one of the links above.

Hmmm.... Okay.... Note to self: Don't seek the advice of a bunch of gear nuts when you want to make your kits smaller! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Seriously though you guys have given me some great ideas and although my kit actually got bigger as a result of those ideas, instead of smaller, I am very happy with it. I'm almost done with it. I'll have pics and a list to post soon in case youre curious about the "monster" of a kit you helped me recreate. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I actually strapped it on to my belt before I went jogging this afternoon just to be sure it wasn't too big. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was thinking that exact same thing as I watched this thread unfold.

dido <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

When I started reading this forum my EDC/FAK combined was about the size of a vcr case. Now I have a Altoid PSK (APSK), two very large duffle bags, a doctors bag, a footlocker and a small linen closet fill with 'stuff'. I try from time to time to organize it but by the time I get everything out I fall asleep from exhaustion and Candy just puts it all away and lets me sleep it off.

I'm going to go over all my notes from this thread and make one more attempt at shrinking the kit. So far, not so muh luck. One thing I have considered is removing ALL medications. I dont require and prescriptions so we're talking OTC meds here. It's hard for me to step outside without experiencing temps in excess of 90*F so Im thinkin maybe it's a waste of space. Not sure I completely agree that there are dangers in having most OTC meds exposed to those temps. I read all the warnings and spoken to a parmachist and I get conflicting reports.

Keep buying, u are only 1/3 of the way there. Might only be a 1/4 of the way depending on the size of the closet! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have this fantasy that one day I will actually come up with an EDC, PSKs, Car Kits and BOBs that I am 100% satisfied with and they will all be perfectly packed, organzied and inventoried and will never need to be messed with beyond annual integrity checks and rotations of items with expirations. In this fantasy I also get rid of all the excess gear. So far it hasn't happened. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I know I am probably starting a fire storm, but is the Diamond Hone that important. Given it's size, I just don't see how it is that important to carry in an PSK. That is not to say there isn't a good reason...
Also...while I do suffer from fairly bad headaches, I think you won't find yourself in a situation where you NEED asprin/tylenol/motrin but as stated above, Immodium really could make all the difference. Anyways, much respect for thowing your thing up on the forums for the wolves to sniff. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

you make a valid point on the hone. In 7 days is is debatable whether or not it would be needed. As mentioned above, neither the Aspirin, Tylenol nor the Motrin are for pain. The reason I carry the Tylenol and Motrin is to be able to reduce a fever. The reason I carry the Aspirin is in case someone is having a heart attack. Now, having said that, I am still toying with the idea of removing all of the meds since it is not possible for me to sheild them from regular exposure to temperatures well in excess of 90*F.

You'd be doing yourself out of half the fun.

But, OK, you want to make a serious run at it, I went back and looked at your original post and some of the responses.

I have, after reading your posts ADDED aspirin to mine. I've been carrying ibu only. But, I have eliminated most of the packaging of the meds. Trim down bubble packs, consolidate loose tablets -- harm in it. The things like the sting pads, they are bulky -- do you need three?

You know your usage/travel patterns: is the fishing gear urgent? Could you not elimiate a lot of it?

Is your problem primarily weight, or bulk?Your kit is so much like one of mine, I don't know what else to say. Unless you just go the Ritter Kit route for pure minimalist utilitarianism.

Brian, Late to the thread and may have been covered already. For your meds, get generic bulk and pack (vacuum if you like) in a single ziplock. Saves alot of the bulk of the individual packed meds. A typical tylenol bottle contains plenty of air during storage and use so air exposure should not be a problem for that type of med within the expiration date.

Bill

Should have mentioned, zip lock for each type, don't mix. Small ones are available at craft stores.

As it stands right now the kit has grown to the size of a Maxpedition M-2 Pack fully stuffed. This is almost double the size it was when I started this thread! I did reduce the fishing kit to a couple #8-#10 1/16-1/32 weghted hooks and upgraded the mirror, but then I added more Imodium, a Storm Shelter Instant Pocket Tent (in the outside pocket of the M-2), 15 feet of paracord and a few other goodies. This is basically the oposite of my original intention. I'm not posting pics or a complete list yet though because Im still thinking of scrapping a lot of this stuff and making it a lot smaller. I keep staring at an empty Altoids tin on the desk in my office, thinking to myself "what would I keep if forced to carry only this tin". I went on a dayhike last Saturday with my son and was quite reluctant to strap on the M-2 even though I have spent about 2 hours on the treadmill with it strapped to my hip and it really isn't that uncomfortable even when jogging. Still, it's a lot of gear for me to carry and I am honest enough with myself to realize that there's pretty good odds of my looking at my M-2 kit on the seat of the truck (as I load up my gear for a hike) and thinking, "ah I'll be fine with just my EDC (knife/firestarter/flashlight/compass)" then end up leaving the whole darn kit behind. I know a lot of people EDC kits larger than this kit but I'm used to going on comfortable 2-3 night camp trips with not much more than a small day pack, so for me this is a lot to take on a day hike. I'm a minimalist when it comes to gear. I dont like to carry much but I like to have what I may truely need to survive (just survive in good health, no comfort items) and I like what i carry to be high quality, which somtimes means passing on the smallest versions of certain items. Okay I am digressing a little now.... sorry. Point is I need to get the kit small enough that I'm not tempted to leave it behind when I head out in to the wilderness but still have the most comprehensive kit possible with the best quality gear I can get my hands on.

Oh ya .. I know carrying the sting relief pads is contrary to my statements above. Basically they are just alcohol and a topical numbing agent. The reason I carry them is because of my little 2 year old boy. It's a comfort item for him because I feel so bad when he gets stung by and ant or a spider and I cant relieve his discomfort. I try not to shelter him too much, which is why I take him on hikes to begin with without worrying about him playing with bugs, dirt, etc, but he is so young that I have to balance that carefully with also making sure that he is comfotable and has fun because otherwise he won't want to go hiking as he gets older and will miss all that outdoors has to offer. Okay now I am really digressing. I'll stop I should probably remove the string relief pads and then just stick one or two in my pocket when the kid is with me. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know what you mean, bro. I can get down to a GI compass pouch, but I feel like a lot is left out. I have become a dedicated fan of Fat Boys. The ergonomics are so good - at least on my body - that it is more comfortable than the M2 would be threaded onto my belt.

I would think that the M2 would not be too bothersome, I mean, it's smaller than a GI conteen, for example. 'Course, I don't know how you are carrying water.

I've never been a big fan of fanny packs, but the Maxpedition Devil Dog looks promising -- it converts to a shoulder bag, which I am quite used to, anyway.

Any Devil Dog users out there?

Oh that's a whole 'nother problem in itself. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I have a real compact and useful but uncomfortabe setup right now that carries a 1 liter nagalene bottle with a fitted metal cup over the bottom. Then the cup and bottle sit in a nylon belt pouch.

I can't find one I like either, so I'm still using a GI canteen Flex plastic) & SS cup. Lots of disadvantages, but still the best compromise I've got.

I think the GSI Glacier Stainless Steel Bottle Cup is what Brian is talking about. That's what I've got. My local Galyan's was carrying it, until they changed into Dick's Sporting Goods, now I don't know anybody locally who carries it, and I'd like more of them. Maybe I'll just have to mail-roder it.

Yep that's the one. I got mine at Galyan's too, before Dick's took over.

I have that one as well.

I also have a MSR ti cup that nests with a Katdyn sport bottle purifier.

Also, can you post an "after" picture and complete inventory?

Here's what I got it down to. During final packing a couple items were added and one was swapped for a smaller size so the picture is not 100% accurate but it is very close to what I ended up with. The list below is completely accurate and anything in the list which is not in the picture or is different in the picture, I have put in italics.




Signalling Group
----------------------------------
ACR Whistle (Modified)
REI Featherweight Mirror (Modified)


Emergency Group
----------------------------------
#22 Scalpel
Small Doan's Ferrocerrium Rod [color:"blue"] Smaller than the rod shown in the pic. [/color]
8 Tinderquick [color:"blue"] Added a few more than what is in the pic during final packing. [/color]
Mini Bic Lighter
BCB Wire Saw
Photon II White LED Micro-Light
Nite Bright Red LED Fishing Bobber Light
True Nord Compass


Medical Group
----------------------------------
4 Band-Aid Suture Strips
2 Triple Antibiotic Packets
4 Alcohol Pads
2 Aspirin [color:"blue"] Added during final packing. [/color]


Food and Water Group
----------------------------------
8 Katadyn MP-1 Tabs
Large Reynold's Oven Bag
Trojan Unlubricated Condom
2 #8 1/16oz Weighted Hooks
3 #10 1.32oz Weighted Hooks
5 Dehydrated Baits
45' #69 10.5# Thread


Miscellaneous/Multi-Purpose Group
----------------------------------
Whitman's Candy Tin
Heavy Duty Sewing Needle
50' 80# Spiderwire
3' Duct Tape [color:"blue"] Added and extra foot of duct tape and have 1' in tin and 2' around the outside of the tin. [/color]
1000 Grit Wet/Dry Sand Paper

For all the "Gear Nuts" who helped me with great ideas on how to increase the quality of the kit and subsequently increased the size as well, fear not. I can easily drop this tin in to my Maxpedition M-2 with my Rescue Flash mirror, Storm Shelter Instant Pocket Tent, a small FAK with more woud dressings and medications, 10'-15' of paracord, a folding knife or leatherman wave and probably a couple more tiems as well. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Of course add that to my outdoor EDC and a Mainstay ration and it's about as much gear as I go on an overnight camping trip with. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> With all that stuff I'm pretty well equipped and not too uncomfortable either. With just the tin I am still way ahead of where I'd be with just my outdoor EDC. My outdoor EDC is what I consider a bare minimum set of tools and equipment and since it was mentioned atleast once in this thread, here it is.

Fixed Blade Knife ( Fallkniven F1 , Mora #860 or Mora #840 )
Arc AAA White LED Flashlight
Firestarter of Some Type (Lighter and/or Large Ferrocerium Rod)
1 Liter Negalene Water Bottle with Fitted Metal Cup and Nylon Belt Pouch
Compass/Watch (Timex Expedition or Timex Helix)
The above-listed PSK (starting today) <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Thanks a lot guys! Your ideas have helped a lot, and not just with this kit. I also made some changes to my backpack-sized kit (BOB) as a result of the ideas and opinions you posted here!

Thanks for the after pic.

I needed the closure! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I think we all did...

M <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ohhhhh... smaller. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And nice.

No offense to anyone, I'm just as guilty of gear inflation, but sometimes I wonder if Pack has replaced Pocket in PSK. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But . . . but . .. but . . Brian!








What about the kid?

I know I know.... I removed a lot of stuff and much of it had to do with him. The reduction of gear has become quite an interesting topic. I even received a PM from a long time member for whom I have a lot of respect. He paid me some very nice compliments on my original kit and very politely expressed some dissappointment in what I ended up with after I reduced it to where it is currently at. I must admit that it does make me think that perhaps the original problem was not with the kit itself as much as with me not having the discipline to carry it. I know most of you would think I am nuts for not having the discipline to strap a Maxpedition M-2 to my belt for day hikes when you are carrying Maxpedition Fatboys and other large pack-sized bags every single day. It's certainly given me much to think about. One thing is for sure. If I did go back to a larger kit, I have certainly gotten some great suggestions from this thread on how to improve it's quality.

It takes a lot more discipline and thought to REMOVE an item from your kit than to add one. Carrying emergency gear is a compromise of what is probable vs what is possible.

I have always been more impressed with small, well designed gear as opposed to a 65# backpack. Really, who here couldn't design a SK with an unlimited budget and 65# weight limit? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What you will carry is much more important than what you should carry.

Help, can anydoby tell me where to find the #69 black thread and how I identify it? I have looked in stores where thread is sold but I never found anything that say it is #69 thread.