After reading the urban disaster threads, I'm thinking that I'd like to supplement my EDC LED lights (currently Nuwai Q3, Photon Freedom x2, and Nuwai AAA, with a new ARC AAA on the way) with a Xenon one for use in smoke, rain, etc.

Any recommendations for something along the size of a Q3? I realize it will have a short burn time at that size, but I really want something pocketable.

In a 1x123A cell size, you pretty much are limiting yourself to the SF E1e (review). It is VERY small and does have some throw, but I think you are better off upsizing *slightly* and look at the SF E2e (review). It is still suprisingly small and packs a lot into a small package.

-john

Yea, you really can't beat the Surefire E1e/E2e. I've got two of each in different configurations and they are my EDC lights.

Thanks guys for the recommendations! After checking out reviews on CPF, I ordered an E2e. Sure hope I can fit that thing in my pocket! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

For those of us on a budget...................

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=LOW-614

<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

The sharp knurling on the SureFire E2e will wear holes in you cloths very quickly. You will have to put something over it to protect your clothes. I have an E2e but switched to a C2 for that reason. I also have the cheaper G2; it is even more pocket friendly. But I have not been able to find a clip for it. I carry the C2 between my belt and pants with the clip over the belt. The belt keeps it pulled in tight and out of the way. A grab of the bezel will get it in operation very quickly.

Note I think this depends a lot on the pocket. I've carried a SF L1 in my front pocket of my Dockers type pants w/o problems for a LONG time. I've also carried a SF E2e in the same manner.

HOWEVER, carrying the L1 in the small pocket of my 5.11 pants (right thigh) quickly started to wear a hole in the pocket. This pocket seemed almost custom made for a light like this.

I've also carried an L1, E2e and M2 in front pocket of (close fit but not tight) jeans. The M2 is very uncomfortable there due to size, but the L1 and E2e were fine. In this case, I think the G2 and C2 would also have problems similar to the M2.

I also suspect carring the L1 / E2e in the back pocket would have caused a wear problem like the 5.11 problem described above. I also think loose fit jeans might wear more like Dockers.

In all, I think there are lots of factors:

1) how sharp are the edges of the light (e2e, l1 sharper than g2, m2)
2) how aggressive is the knurling (e2e more agressive than others)
3) how old is the light? (kurling mellows out)
4) how big is the light (m2, g2 much more bulky than e2e, l1)
5) how tight is the pocket?
6) what is the pant material?
7) what is the location of the pocket? (are you going to sit on it, does the location cause the light to move around a lot?)
8) how heavy is the light?

You get the idea. In the end I think the knurling is a factor, but it is only a factor. In some cases it can be offset by other factors (small size, light weight), or it could go the other way and be a problem.

If it turns out to be a problem, you can also take the edge off by hand. I'd try maybe rubbing it down with mud as a first step.

Just a few thoughts...

-john

Good point. If you are willing to go up in size from the E2e, there are several options out there that are less expensive than the E2e. Note however that these lights are substaintally larger than the E2e and the poster was originally looking at a 1x123A cell sized light.

For other options, the SF G2 comes to mind. Inexpensive and light. $34. This light now comes with a lock out tail cap. The inclusion of this feature really makes this a great deal. Beware however that there are a lot of the old style lights still in the supply chain, so you need to specifically look for a new style light. This is a great light. Sturdy and has the incredible beam quality that comes with the Surefire lamp assemblies.

Then, there is the SF 6P for $65. This is basically the same size as the G2, but is aluminum instead of "plastic".

And of course lots of other brand lights.

-john

I've carried an E2e or E1e clipped to my pocket for a long time and have found it doesn't wear any more then my BM 705/707 or Charge Ti. It did however wear my Dockers dress pants out pretty quick when I would wear it in them, so I guess it depends on the pants.

Interesting, can you describe the pants and carry method in more detail for each case?

My carry method with the Dockers was the light was sitting loose at the bottom of the front left pocket. This didn't cause any wear problem for me.

-john

I would carry it clipped in the pocket of the dockers, the area where it was clipped would become a little lighter and wear on the seam. When carried loose in the pocket it wouldn't wear anything at all. When carried clipped in jeans it would wear, but no faster then anything else I carried would. With the dockers though I usually never carried a knife clipped very long (as it would be frowned upon if seen), but the light was okay since I did stage work so I carried it that way often. So I guess I didn't really have equel time to do a good comparison either.

Yes, for EDC use, pocketability means everything to me. I always carry a laptop bag or a murse (= man purse), which contain random gear, but my EDC stuff goes directly in a pants pocket and is always with me.

So, getting the 2x123A E2e was something of stretch, but it's only an inch longer than my current Nuwai Q3, and it's so damn bright, I'll need sunglasses! <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

What about the Streamlight TL Xenon light? Everybody seems to be hooked on the Surefire lights, but they are so expensive -- anybody carry any Streamlights?

http://www.streamlight.com/tl-nf_info.htm

Cheaper Than Dirt apparently sold out of this light on the link I posted. There is another priced at $7. They claim light is marked down due to mislabeling on package. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
The link is:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=LIGHT-109

[quote] For those of us on a budget...................

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd/product.asp?sku=LOW-614<br />
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Oh, I'm on a budget in theory. I'm just not very good at sticking to it.
<img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I have an “older” SurFire G2. I have heard rumors of the G2 having a lockout cap. It is not listed on the SureFire web site or on any packages I have seen so far. How can you identify the new lockout cap while the light is still in the package? I might buy a new G2 if it had the lockout cap. Now if I could only find a pocket clip for one!

Check this thread for details on telling if a package has the LOTC. I thought I also saw that the LOTC is slightly longer than the normal tailcap, but I couldn't find the reference.

-john

I have an Orb Raw on order, primarily as a toy because of its 12-minute battery life. However, I am wondering whether it might in fact be worth having in a smokey disaster. It's certainly bright, and 12 minutes might be enough to get out of the smoke. (I also carry a Photon Freedom, which would be fine if there's no smoke.)

I haven't been following the Orb stuff, so I can't directly comment, but I think carrying something as large as that for such a limited runtime and for such a narrow purpose isn't optimal considering we can only carry so much. I think you'd be much better off with a SF E2e or E1e which have much more generic applications.

-john

I bought my G2 a little over a year ago and it doesn't have a lockout tailcap. Sure would be a nice feature if they are incorporating it!

Yep, they are. But lots of the old ones are still in the supply chain.

-john

Well, I can't comment personally on the Scorpion, but I have a Twintask TL-1 on order for edc. I"ll post the result of the evaluation when I get it in.

What I will say is taht I know some guys who carry the Scorpion, rather than a Surefire in the very-bright incandecent catagory. they've been out in the same weather I've been in with my G2, and they work fine.

I have a couple of Scorpions, and they are similar in brightness to the same catagory SF lights (G2, 6P).

Some people like the rubber grip and some do not. The upside of the grip is that it you get a very secure and conformatble grip. The downside is that it is harder to pull out of a (tighish) pocket or sheath. Personally I like it. The G2 on the other hand isn't rubbery, but does have some texture to it and isn't slippery. The non black colors (yellow in particular) do collect dirt stains.

The clickie style tailcap works very easily and is nice to use. It isn't built as well as the SF tailcaps, so hard use might damage it.

It is possible to accidently active the light in your pocket. And if you do, you can melt the lens (and you'll say "ouch, that's hot!"). I assume it is possible to melt the lens on the G2 as well and the old style w/o the lockout tailcap would not have anything to prevent this. Of course, since it is momentary activation on the G2, it is less likely to be on long enough to melt the lens. Of course since the button sticks out, you are more likely to activate it here and there.

The rubber sheath can get damaged / cut up in some cases. Most typically this would be a "compression" type cut at the tail end. Basically drop it on it's tail and the metal in the light can cut the rubber. Dogs also like to chew up the Scorpion. :-O SL has a warantee, but my attempts to get them just to sell me a replacement rubber sleeve were unsuccessful.

The rubber is part of the water resistance, so if it is cut, the water resitance is compromised. However, the Scorpion design is inherently only splash restaint IMO and cannot easily be made waterrproof. OTOH, the (old style) G2 tailcap isn't waterproof at all.

The real problem with the Scorpion however is the lamp assembly. It uses a bi-pin lamp, and it is possible to dislodge it by dropping it, or in storage if it moves around. The problem is bad because 1) the light doesn't work when you need it, and 2) because the light falls into the head assembly which is sealed and has a "rubber" seal at the opening. It becomes a long exercise with needle nose pliers or tweezers to shake the bulb around until you can snag a leg of the bulb and coax it out. The little rubber thingy at the entrance which provides shock issolation and retention really works against you in this case. The G2 on the other hand has an integrated lamp assembly and this isn't a problem.

All in all, the (old style) G2 and the Scorpion are very comprable. I'd give a slight nod to the G2 only because of the lamp retention issue which is a serious design flaw IMO and can leave you w/o light, w/o notice at any time. The old G2 has a serious design flaw in that it's tailcap is in no way waterproof and the button falls out when you are changing the battery, but those are more managable issues.

The new style G2 lockout tailcap is supposed to be waterproof and not have any parts that fall out. In that regard, I think it is clear the new style G2 is much better than the Scorpion and for about the same price.

Cheers,

-john

Part of the point of the Orb Raw is that it's tiny. Under 2 inches long and less than an inch wide. It weighs 30g. It's a keyring light that puts out 100 lumen. I certainly wouldn't have it as my only, or main, torch, but I think it might be small enough to carry in addition to a main torch. Two torches rather than one torch with two brightness levels.

I don't know. As I say, I bought it as a toy rather than a survival light. I recently bought a Surefire L1 which I did intend as a suvival light, but I'm disappointed with it, so I'm casting around for alternatives.

How are the Streamlight TwinTasks? I don't have one, but I see they have a single CR123A cell xenon/LED unit for around $21. Looks small, and you have the LED backup in case your xenon doesn't work, maybe because you dropped the light and jarred the bulb.

http://www.brightguy.com/detail_int.php?Sku=STR51004

There is a two-cell model as well, bigger and brighter (and longer runtime) if you want that tradeoff.

I have a Twin Tasklight 1L and there is nothing really wrong with it, but is seems awful big for what it is. Maybe this is less noticable in the 2L version (don't have).

-john

but the surefire lamp assembly is pretty expensive and you don't get much time out of that bulb at $17 a pop? Is it worth this kind of investment?

They are well reviewed but I think even the 1x123A is much too bulky for pocket carrry. For camping/backpack use, the 2L or 3AA look great. I really like hybrid lights though, and someday I'm looking forward to getting a Surefire Aviator, which may be the best of the lot, particularly if they end up shortening the tailcap.

The Bulbs last for a while in my experience. I've got an A2 that I have had for a good year now (the longest of my Xenon Surefires) and that is still on its original bulb. I used it quite often when I did stage work. I actually let someone borrow it and they left it on for the whole show (3 hours) until the only thing still lit was the LEDs because of lack of battery power. The thing it kills is batteries, it goes through those 123s like water. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

With normal, intermittant use, you will likely rarely burn out a bulb. I think you'll feel the bite of buying batteries long before you worry about lamp assemblies.

BTW, you should be buying batteries online in bulks of at least 12 to get reasonable prices. Best prices around $1 ea. for less known brands, worst case $18 for 12 (Streamlight: very reliable, good performance). Prices prior to shipping.

-john

That's pretty cool. I didn't know it was so small. Sounds a lot like the size of the E1e.



What don't you like? Too focused? You could consider adding a F04 beamshaper.



Personally, I think an optimal EDC situation is something that can go from about 2 to 60 lumens in at least three steps.

The only real thing close to that at this time is the SF U2. With six output levels and 100 lumens, I think this would be a reasonable all-in-one solution.

Other than that, I think the next best thing would be a combo. In order to get three levels, at least one of the lights would have to be a multi level light.

My solution is a SF E2e (sometimes SF M2) + SF L1 (old style). I'm very happy with this, but if I was going to do it all over again, I would use a SF E2e + HDSsystems.com EDC light with beamshaper lens AND diffuser (I think task lights should be very "flood").

-john

My carry right now is an A2 if I think I will need a lot of light, or an E1e-HA with new KL1 head for EDC. I'm looking to get a KL4 head for my E2e which is just as bright as a the regular E2e with no bulbs to burn out. With a beamshaper it would be perfect EDC for me. If I need less light I just put my hand over it or put something over the lense (like my bandana, shirt, paper, ect), it doesn't get as hot as the xenons so you can put stuff over it (though I would still keep an eye on it).

I have had a couple of the Streamlight TwinTask 2Ls. I liked them quite a bit as car lights, but I've since switched to these lights:
Nuwai 3-watt hi/lo
(I bought mine here - no connection to this dealer but my transaction went fine and they answered a lot of questions via email).
Pretty much the same size (the head has a larger diameter). It's got a good beam on high, pretty decent light output on low, and you'll never need to change the bulb. I'm a fan of these lights, and for the price (about US$36) - they're a good value.
The TwinTask 1L is a neat little light, but a bit big (head size) for really comfortable pocket carry.

For those looking for a pocket carry light, I think the Nuwai Q3/QIII is a very good option. A 3-watt LED running off one CR123 battery. Size is very similar to a Surefire E1, although the fit and finish on any Surefire is better. I've not tested an incan vs. LED for seeing through smoke conditions, but the output on a QIII is pretty good for a pocket light of that size.
Dave

Another possibility is the Pelican M6.

All-metal body, a bit longer than a Surefire G2. Has HA2 (sted HA3) body anodizing, so it will show wear and nicks quicker than comparably-sized Surefire light. However, it's still sturdy - just dropped one of mine off a porch railing onto concrete driveway about 12 feet or so below. Got small nicks on it, but the lamp lit right up again. Pelican also has a very good returns policy for their lights.

About the same price as the G2, especially with some of the vendors on CPF.
Throws (I'm told) a bit farther than the G2. Lamp assemblies are about $7 each vs. the Surefire assembly prices.

Also has the option of making the tail a clickie instead of press for momentary on, twist for constant on. CPF vendor flashlightlens.com sells the mechanism, which apparently takes a bit of elbow grease to install (I bought my Pelicans used, with the clickies already installed).

I think the Pelican's a good-value light, very much a contender to the Surefire G2.

Dave

John:

Just get some 600 grit wet/dry paper and round it off as much as you want. Go to a gun store and get some cold blue.black if don't like the raw aluminum edges showing.

Yah, I suggested the mud/dirt over sandpaper just to lessen the chance of removing more anodizing than desired. Personally, I don't mind the knurling of the E2e and certainly due to "normal" use, the kurling on my heavily used lights has already "mellowed", and the lights have gained "character"! :-)

-john

Yes, the L1 is too focused on the low beam. I'm aware of beamshapers but don't know of a UK supplier. Also I'm having doubts about the whole package. It's not the smallest torch for what it does, and I can't really see me carrying it every day.

The light I really rely on at the moment is a Zipka+ headlamp. It's just so convenient to have something hands-free, and it gives more light than the L1 on low and more useful light too. That's what I use around a campsite or if I am at home during a powercut. I don't quite EDC it but I'd have it with me if I were far from home, eg on London tube. I'm very happy with it and can't see myself giving it up, whatever else I get.

The U2 looks great but frankly is getting a bit pricey. $250!

I guess I'm trying to think through what the roles of a really bright light actually are. For most uses I don't need a lot of light. I EDC a Photo Freedom and that's often enough. I'm not a policeman or anything. Although I'd like a light bright enough for search and rescue use over many hours, for that role it doesn't have to be a survival torch I carry everywhere. And in fact the L1 would probably do me in that role. (I prefer LEDs to incandescents, by the way, which probably means compromising somewhat).

I am wondering if when you do need a bright light in a survival situation, you maybe don't necessarily need it for very long. If you are in a smoke-filled room, you need to get out of the smoke pretty quick anyway.