A quiz: check your pockets/ bag for what you carried to and from work today. ( and your training!) How would you have fared in/near one of these terror events? What did you find lacking?

TRO

I had a Photon II, and a Nuwai Q3, so light was covered.
Leatherman Squirt P4, probably should have had the Wave with me.
No dust mask, but a decent first aid kit.
No eye protection, and I wear contacts.
Time to shuffle the contents a bit.

Provided I survived the explosions, I believe I would have been fine. Regarding the darkness, smoke, etc., my EDC includes:

• (1) leather driver gloves
• (2) eye goggles
• (3) two bandannas
• (4) either a Leatherman Wave or Victorinox SwissTool R/S
• (5) Inova X5-T
• (6) SureFire E2e
• (7) two flat-style N95 particulate nose-mouth shields

-- Craig

While preparedness is great, ultimately, these people like any in that situation were caught completely unaware. Not really anything you could do. If you are in the wrong place at the wrong time, you are dead. Then you kit won't do any good at all.

Well, only if you are killed or injured. But what if you had a small light? Filter/dust mask? Trauma bandage?

These small things would have helped you -- and your fellow passengers get out and get help.

Little things make a big diffrence

Teacher ro

It's been mentioned before that LED lights are not particularly effective in smoke. The glare is terrible and has a similar effect to using your bright headlamps in a snow storm.

Xenon bulbs are more effective in smoke than LEDs, but battery life is quite poor in comparison. Still, it may be worth considering one solely for emergency use, e.g., getting out of smoke-filled buildings or subways. Does anyone here EDC a xenon light?

I added a extra bandana, 1 extra pair nytril gloves and 4-4x4 pads to my edc. I am thinking on adding several more wet wipes. Other than that, I think I'm ok

In the event a mask against dust and fumes and goggles would have been handy but not on me. Light (photon II, AA Maglite, Surefire or X11), a pocket knife , a multitool, a decent whistle and a decent first aid kit would have been assets. My first aid training is up to date. As the rescue work was not completed too fast (I read they were still on it today) my water supply couldn´t have hurt. I´m aware that the rescue workers are doing their best and it just takes that much time so I don´t blame them.
Maybe time to think about EDC and probably some rearrangemants.

Lots of factors here. If you were on or near the bus and actually didn't die and weren't seriously injured then you'd be fine even empty handed and buck naked. It was outdoors and during the day. Plenty of ventilation and light. On the subway, however, a mask rated for smoke filtration and xenon-type light would have probably been helpful. As for myself, I carry no such mask or light at this time (may change in the future) so I would have had to make due with my photon II for light and cotton cloth for an improvised mask. Depending on the specifics of the situation, a Leatherman-type tool and a trauma-rated FAK (and the knowledge to use it) may have also been quite useful. I dont EDC either of those either.

My EDC : SF 6P + Nuwaï Q3 + 2 x Photon III, allways on my person
+ depending on the pack carried at the moment : Inova 24/7 or Inova T2 + Photon Fusion

I EDC a SF M2 (sometimes an E2e, but I tend to give them away as gifts to family) and a SF L1. Covers me for three levels of light and a covers a wide range of runtimes as needed. Both lights use the same batteries.

-john

If you need to do mass 1st aid for a bunch of lacerations that are not life theatening, I think you should go the route we do for houses: 3M Vetwrap bangages, preferaably 3", a full box or more of 4 x 4 telfa non-sticks, twice that many boxes of 4 x 4 gauze, a can of antibiotic spray, like Furacin, and several cans of spray sterile saline.

Roughly debride with saline, spray on some Furacin, slap on a telfa pad and a couple of gauze pads, and sent them out the door. In such an emergency, there is not time for more.

Traveling as a tourist you don’t want to stick out too much. I visited London when I was stationed in Germany when I was in the US Army. Back then I would have had nothing more than a small pocketknife. If I were there today I would only have a few pocket items, a LeatherMan Charge Ti, and a SureFire C2. I would have nothing for smoke or first aid. Most places in London there are shops only a few steps away. It would be good to carry a bag with water, a dust mask, and a first-aid kit. I don’t think I would take my CamelBack to London. A backpack will now make you look like a homicide bomber. Most Europeans carry a briefcase. They carry their lunch in it but it would be good as a low profile PSK container.

Fitzoid,
What you mentioned may be true with the more common LED flood lights, but the newer spot style will cut through like a xenon. I used to carry a Surefire E1e-Ha with the older KL1 LED head (more flood then spot) and when I would use that in very dusty areas (I work in construction) it would have the effect you mentioned. However, I now carry a Surefire E1e with new style KL1 (more spot) and that cuts through the dust even better then the regular Xenon bulb. I'm not sure if smoke is the same way, but if it is the higher quality spot LED lights should fare fine.

Aren't all the non-LED Surefire's xenon?

If so, I keep my G2 in my backpack, clipped to a shoulder strap in a sheath. Problem is I either carry that pack, or a shoulderbag. Looking for a single carrier that I can put stuff in and just move from bag to bag.

That's interesting. I haven't had that experience with any of my LED lights, including at least one narrow beam with a fair amount of throw, but maybe I should look into this more. I took my entire flashlight collection for an outdoor middle-of-the-night test a few weeks ago. I walked through a field and surrounding woods on a moonless night. It was fairly foggy, and I was very disappointed with the glare from my LEDs. I think it would have been really hard to navigate with them in a pinch. (Of course, in the absence of fog, they are real champs.)

There are a few exceptions like the "beast" which is HID. They also have a military heavy weapon light which is HID. But in general most are incandecent.



Probably some of the most popular are the Spec-Ops Brand Pack Rat and Mini Pocket Organizer.

-john

In addition to how tight the beam, I think beam color comes into play. In reading about fog lights, I came accross the observation that more "yellow" lights are not as hard on our night vision and thus make better fog lights. I think the same thing comes into play here as the LED lights are much less yellow.

-john

Yeah, with respect to fog, the frequency of the light should be the main difference between LED and Xenon bulbs. My LED lights are mostly white, with varying degrees of purple or greenish tints -- i.e., the Luxeon lottery. I don't have a yellow LED light -- if anyone does, it'd be interesting to hear a comparison for fog/smoke usage.

I have to agree on this.

I do not think that carrying a dust mask, water and xenon flashlight every time you go underground in a subway is worth the trouble. I like to travel light (assuming I don't carry a briefcase or bag all the time; then it would be a different story and I would probably carry these items).

Maybe i'm saying this because I never experienced a tornado or hurricanes... but when it comes to survival, I think of "backcountry", "wilderness" and "8-hour drive fishing trip with nobody around". I am not too concerned by urban survival.

Just my opinion. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Bee

The problem is if you need it, and dont have it, it could become a bad situation quickly.

Quick story: Last year I was one of the people in charge of a group of high school kids building a set for a play at night. Well, we had two kids up on a ladder, three kids putting a railing on a 7 foot high platform, as well as various tools being used. The power went out, luckily I had my Surefire A2, it was bright enough to light the stage up to get the kids off the high places and together until the power came back on, avoiding a bad situation. Just think if you are underground and the power goes out, it will be pretty black and scary, especially if the emergency lighting doesn't come on. A flashlight can be the difference between some clostrophobic lady causing a panic and everyone getting trampled or everyone huddled together singing Kumbaya. I think the weight is worth it, especially since my Surefires only weigh a couple ounces, yet are as bright as a 6D cell Mag light. As to water and a dust mask. A dust mask or even bandana weighs nothing and can save your life. A lot of people died in volcano eruptions from smoke and dust inhalation, as the dust and ash would cement in their lungs. I believe the same thing happened on 9/11. What a way to die, especially since it is pretty avoidable. The water you should always carry anyway. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I would think that fog and smoke would reflect differently. My folks heat with wood, and growing up I got to deal with at least one down draft a year that filled the house with smoke. I always got the impression smoke didn't reflect back as much.

If I had to take a guess, I'd say it is a matter of water being water, and having a very high reflectivity, compaired to things reduced to the size of a couple of a bit of dust. Also, since water likes to take a round shape, which reflects light evenly, it might increase the glare. I've never looked at captured smoke, but I imagine that it's surface is fairly irregular.

And yes, I realise my geek is showing.

The use of acronyms on the site gets confusing. For example, what does EDC mean? It would be helpful if a word or phrase is spelled out and the acronym used after that. Thanks. GeorgeM

EDC
---- Every Day Carry
PSK
---- Pocket Survival Kit (SAS-type tin for most of us)
FAK
---- First Aid Kit
SAK
---- Swiss Army Knife
BOB
---- Bug/Bail-Out Bag (and your new name in an emergency if you have your BOB embroidered as "BOB")
SNAFU
---- Situation Normal All Fouled Up (you need more than your EDC)
FUBAR
---- Fouled Up Beyond All Recognition (you need more than BOB and a good FAK)

Anything I missed?

Thanks that helps.

BOHICA --- Bend Over, Here It Comes Again

TEOTWAWKI - The End Of The World As We Know It. Sometimes mentioned as not something this site really addresses.

"... when it comes to survival, I think of "backcountry", "wilderness" and "8-hour drive fishing trip with nobody around". I am not too concerned by urban survival."

Statistics say that most vehicular accidents occur near home. Most backcountry trouble comes from you're own ineptness (if that's a word). In the city, you are at the mercy of idiots, drunks, terrorists, thieves, poor construction, and people who just aren't paying attention.

Just a few days ago in my little one-signal-light town, a man decided to commit suicide, tanked up on booze, then got into his car and slammed the accelerator to the floor. I guess some of the poor people saw him coming at them and just couldn't get out of the way. He hit one slightly off-center and careened into another one. His front axle and one wheel flew about 40 feet into the air and came down right through another (occupied) car's windshield. His momentum kept his car kept going another 350 feet, & when it stopped it burst into flames. Three dead, more injured.

WHERE you are doesn't make a bit of difference. You usually won't see it coming in time to get your gear from home.

Sue

I thought about putting it in, but I thought our Florida members might take offense. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good luck guys, I hope it misses our members.

Can you (legally) EDC knives and multitools in England? I was under the impression that "just in case" is not a valid reason for having a blade in public, although it is no problem if you are transporting it to a place where you need it. (And self-defense is not a legal purpose?) Is this accurate and does it include multitools?

I believe this has been covered in the last few months, but I can't find it in the search.

Susan said: Most backcountry trouble comes from you're own ineptness (if that's a word). In the city, you are at the mercy of idiots, drunks, terrorists, thieves, poor construction, and people who just aren't paying attention.

What you say is entirely true. But I think that the point is that in the middle of the woods, when the fit hits the shan, you have to rely on yourself to keep alive until help comes. You might have to spend 3 or 4 days staying alive until rescued.

In an urban environment, other people are around, and in all likelihood, help will be coming soon. In most cases, you will be on your own for a maximum of an hour or so.

But I do admit that you could be buried under rubble, and it may take a week for help to get to you. But this is an extremely unlikely event.

In England you can EDC a "penknife", which is a folding blade less than 3 inches long. Locking blades are probably not considered penknives. Something like a Leatherman Juice would be OK under this rule; it has short, non-locking blades.

You can carry most longer or locking or fixed blades if you have a good reason. "To hurt people with" is not a good reason, even in self-defence. Taking a camping knife to a campsite ought to be OK.

Some knifes are disallowed completely on the grounds that hurting people is their primary use, eg flickknifes, butterfly knifes.

In theory it makes no difference whether the blade is part of a multitool. In practice the police might use their disgression, taking into account your general demeanour etc, and a multitool might fare better there. You are in any case unlikely to be searched unless arrested for some other reason, at least outside London. I've not visited London itself for many years so I don't know what is normal there, eg, whether museums and art galleries have any checks.

I currently EDC a non-locking SAK and an M4, which is a tiny multitool with locking blade. I'd defend the M4 in court if necessary, and hope to set a new precedent. I also usually carry a Juice. I've just ordered a Prybaby, which I suspect would be more useful for escaping from a train. I don't know if that will be light enough to EDC.

I'm not a lawyer.

You're operating on the assumption that you are victim, and that you're willing to hang around and wait for help.

What about being prepared to help someone else?

Sue

Those are the words that I wanted to use in my first reply, thanks! <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />